Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
I have not watched the fight but for a top class fighter to give so many rounds to another top class fighter is suicide. Think Hagler did it against Leonard by fighting orthodox. Quigg miscalculated against Frampton but very rare for it to happen.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
I think it goes to show that Loma is an entitled bitch.
Like trying to win a title in his 2nd fight, and getting schooled by a crude veteran.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Margarito Williams went almost the same way marg slept 6 rounds win next 5 lost the 12th for clear 7 5 loss of I remember
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Dozens and dozens of fans/boxers/pundits/journos scored the 2nd, 6th and 7th rounds for Loma. Scoring is all in the eye of the beholder.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Source?
"Dozens and dozens" is a lot of people.
I tried but couldn't find like in the past where you could see how different boxing experts had scored a fight.
If push came to shove, I could see the 7th. But before that? Don't see how anyone could give Loma a round when he did absolutely zilch.
Even with Rounds 1 through 6, and then 12, Lopez takes a narrow victory.
Loma miscalculated... plain and simple.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Through social media and Youtube boxing channels/community there are thousands of comments - fighters/journos/fans. My point is not Teo lost but if you break it down to specific rounds then not everyone reached Teo winning the same way. This is the exact same for every fight scored.
My point is the way boxing is scored is really flawed. It lends itself to all the "robberies" and "terrible" cards we see "every" fight.
We didn't need rd-by-rd scoring to know Teo won this fight. He looked in control for the majority and was the stronger throughout. However, break it down to rounds won and 6-6 is perfectly reasonable using the scorecards of people who believe Teo won 9-3 or 8-4 or 7-5 as not everyone reached their score the same way.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Through social media and Youtube boxing channels/community there are thousands of comments - fighters/journos/fans. My point is not Teo lost but if you break it down to specific rounds then not everyone reached Teo winning the same way. This is the exact same for every fight scored.
My point is the way boxing is scored is really flawed. It lends itself to all the "robberies" and "terrible" cards we see "every" fight.
We didn't need rd-by-rd scoring to know Teo won this fight. He looked in control for the majority and was the stronger throughout. However, break it down to rounds won and 6-6 is perfectly reasonable using the scorecards of people who believe Teo won 9-3 or 8-4 or 7-5 as not everyone reached their score the same way.
The way boxing is scored is flawed, I think most of us agree. I also think the fight wasn't as wide as one of the scorecards reflected. But one way scoring is flawed is because of the very reason judges for trials are screened in an effort to get them as unbiased as possible. If a judge goes in there with the mentality that any flurry or combination by let's say Loma, in this case, is enough to win him the round... then that's a judge given to flawed scoring right there. I thought (IMO) that Loma did absolutely zilch for at least 6 rounds. A judge may have given him the 2nd... let's say. But why? Replay the round and you'll find Loma continuing his "study" of Lopez, who continued coming forward and throwing the vast majority of punches in the round, whether a large portion of them connected or not.
Round 7 is where Loma probably figured out (duh) that he was losing the fight. Who won that round is definitely (again) a matter of personal opinion, based on what factors you use to score a round. Personally... I still gave it to Lopez. Rounds 8 through 11 were clear Loma rounds for me. Had Round 12 been a clear Loma round... we would've had a full-fledged controversy on our hands, no matter who the decision favored.
But yeah... the way boxing is scored is fundamentally flawed. I would offer a few "mistakes" judges tend to make.
1. Many don't view rounds in a vacuum. In other words... if so-and-so has won every single round from the beginning of the fight, and the other guy somehow steals a round... some judges will ignore that and stay with the "momentum."
2. Bias. Let's face it... we all have it to a certain extent. But judges are supposed to be as unbiased as possible, and just score what's going on in front of them. A tall order, but something that would make judging more fair and competent.
3. Differences in what judges consider important. Some favor the aggressive guy who continuously comes forward, disregarding number of punches connected. Some get swayed by pretty-looking flurries... regardless of whether they actually connected or not. Yet others can't seem to keep track of time. One guy dominates for 2 and a half minutes... but the last 30 seconds go to the other guy. Some judges forget the round was 3 minutes.
Anyway, yeah... I think most will agree Teo won the fight. Of course I've seen plenty of "experts" in Facebook claiming Loma was robbed. ;)
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
I’ll still go on the record saying that 6-6 is more ridiculous than 11-1
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
A lot of people and judges score rounds for a fighter because they did much better than previous rounds. Like round 8. Almost everyone was in agreement that Loma won that round. After that round, I said that it was very close but I gave it to Loma. Punch stats indicate that it was an even round (I know punch stats aren’t a great indicator). But the reason almost everyone gave it to Loma is because it was the first round that he did anything basically. If the tables were turned and Lopez did nothing for the first 7 rounds, I’m guessing that most people would have given Lopez that round.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
this thread has 2 directions now. It started out by stating boxers need to keep better arithmetic tally of the rounds as they are going by (and losing them!).... but now it looks like it is focused on the SCORING of the fight..... 2 diff things for sure, but Im still tempted to follow along on the 2nd issue, the scoring..... I guess it is all tied together. I'll just state that the announcers in the 9th round were BOTH already stating that Loma "had won the last 2 rounds" ---- and this was DURING the 9th round! I thought "WTF, he didnt win the 7th", yet they both had it down as a given, like it was so clear he had def won the 7th. Its almost like there's a pre-existing "given" built-in for announcers/judges..... bottom line, he threw away (euphemistically) o f the first 7 rounds..... knowing there were 12. He must have been praying for a KO, but No way was he expecting a knockout, he hadnt landed shit and thats alot of eggs in one shrinking basket.
Either thats just bad arithmetic, or...... he COULDNT get inside because Lopez's strength was such a factor..... I guess it was a bit of both. Lopez started doing a George Foreman kind of shove in the 2nd half of the fight, very effective, and was never warned that I saw.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Typical LOMA. Slow starter. I'd wager he wanted and tried to turn it on around 5th round, not 7th. The problem was Lopez didn't comply.;D And for the 1st time, I saw Loma calculate late in the fight which was the 12th round. he came out to take the 12th but damn Lopez didnt listen to daddy and bit down on that mouthpiece and forced Lomechenko to go back to boxing. He wanted that 12th, he looked damn good in the 10th solid in the 11th but Lopez wasn't having it final round. Just a dominant finish Teo.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
this thread has 2 directions now. It started out by stating boxers need to keep better arithmetic tally of the rounds as they are going by (and losing them!).... but now it looks like it is focused on the SCORING of the fight..... 2 diff things for sure, but Im still tempted to follow along on the 2nd issue, the scoring..... I guess it is all tied together.
Well... thanks for bringing that up. I figured there would be enough of the obligatory "scoring" threads, and wanted this one to go in a specific direction.
My tongue-in-cheek comment being that if you're a professional fighter... and are in full knowledge that the fight is slated for 12 rounds... it seems pretty damn silly to just give away the first 7 rounds, unless you're damn certain you're going to score a knockout or at least several knockdowns.
The point someone made about it being Lopez who didn't allow Loma to get off the starting blocks is well taken. Except that it doesn't change the reality of it being a 12-round fight and if you've given away the first 7 there's no chance in hell you're gonna win a decision.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
this thread has 2 directions now. It started out by stating boxers need to keep better arithmetic tally of the rounds as they are going by (and losing them!).... but now it looks like it is focused on the SCORING of the fight..... 2 diff things for sure, but Im still tempted to follow along on the 2nd issue, the scoring..... I guess it is all tied together.
Well... thanks for bringing that up. I figured there would be enough of the obligatory "scoring" threads, and wanted this one to go in a specific direction.
My tongue-in-cheek comment being that if you're a professional fighter... and are in full knowledge that the fight is slated for 12 rounds... it seems pretty damn silly to just give away the first 7 rounds, unless you're damn certain you're going to score a knockout or at least several knockdowns.
The point someone made about it being Lopez who didn't allow Loma to get off the starting blocks is well taken. Except that it doesn't change the reality of it being a 12-round fight and if you've given away the first 7 there's no chance in hell you're gonna win a decision.
Recently I have noticed more and more fighters losing track of what round it was. Over the past 12 months or so there have been countless times in the corner when a fighter will ask what round it is. More than usual in my opinion far more frequently than I remember. So I think we also have to add in the advice to fighters or to their corner men, to make sure they tell the fighter what round it is DURING EVERY 60 SECOND BREAK, to keep updating them on the number of the round. Perhaps this will help them with their arithmetic. I mean what if a fighter truly believes theyre heading into the 7th round when in fact they are really heading into the 9th round? He will think he has much more time to mount his comeback.
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
this thread has 2 directions now. It started out by stating boxers need to keep better arithmetic tally of the rounds as they are going by (and losing them!).... but now it looks like it is focused on the SCORING of the fight..... 2 diff things for sure, but Im still tempted to follow along on the 2nd issue, the scoring..... I guess it is all tied together.
Well... thanks for bringing that up. I figured there would be enough of the obligatory "scoring" threads, and wanted this one to go in a specific direction.
My tongue-in-cheek comment being that if you're a professional fighter... and are in full knowledge that the fight is slated for 12 rounds... it seems pretty damn silly to just give away the first 7 rounds, unless you're damn certain you're going to score a knockout or at least several knockdowns.
The point someone made about it being Lopez who didn't allow Loma to get off the starting blocks is well taken. Except that it doesn't change the reality of it being a 12-round fight and if you've given away the first 7 there's no chance in hell you're gonna win a decision.
Recently I have noticed more and more fighters losing track of what round it was. Over the past 12 months or so there have been countless times in the corner when a fighter will ask what round it is. More than usual in my opinion far more frequently than I remember. So I think we also have to add in the advice to fighters or to their corner men, to make sure they tell the fighter what round it is DURING EVERY 60 SECOND BREAK, to keep updating them on the number of the round. Perhaps this will help them with their arithmetic. I mean what if a fighter truly believes theyre heading into the 7th round when in fact they are really heading into the 9th round? He will think he has much more time to mount his comeback.
Good point. Hell... Tom Brady forgot what down it was in a recent NFL game. ;D
Ok then... what about those ring card girls? :D
Maybe they should make a brief stop at each corner and make sure they put the round number in front of them. ;D ;D
Re: Remedial Math for Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
this thread has 2 directions now. It started out by stating boxers need to keep better arithmetic tally of the rounds as they are going by (and losing them!).... but now it looks like it is focused on the SCORING of the fight..... 2 diff things for sure, but Im still tempted to follow along on the 2nd issue, the scoring..... I guess it is all tied together.
Well... thanks for bringing that up. I figured there would be enough of the obligatory "scoring" threads, and wanted this one to go in a specific direction.
My tongue-in-cheek comment being that if you're a professional fighter... and are in full knowledge that the fight is slated for 12 rounds... it seems pretty damn silly to just give away the first 7 rounds, unless you're damn certain you're going to score a knockout or at least several knockdowns.
The point someone made about it being Lopez who didn't allow Loma to get off the starting blocks is well taken. Except that it doesn't change the reality of it being a 12-round fight and if you've given away the first 7 there's no chance in hell you're gonna win a decision.
Recently I have noticed more and more fighters losing track of what round it was. Over the past 12 months or so there have been countless times in the corner when a fighter will ask what round it is. More than usual in my opinion far more frequently than I remember. So I think we also have to add in the advice to fighters or to their corner men, to make sure they tell the fighter what round it is DURING EVERY 60 SECOND BREAK, to keep updating them on the number of the round. Perhaps this will help them with their arithmetic. I mean what if a fighter truly believes theyre heading into the 7th round when in fact they are really heading into the 9th round? He will think he has much more time to mount his comeback.
Good point. Hell... Tom Brady forgot what down it was in a recent NFL game. ;D
Ok then... what about those ring card girls? :D
Maybe they should make a brief stop at each corner and make sure they put the round number in front of them. ;D ;D
Dont get me started on the ring card girls, .......... trust me ;)
