Tyson Fury is the best fighter of our generation. He says he is the greatest ever but he is not.
If he did retire, which he will not, then where would he be ranked on the list of great heavyweights?
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Tyson Fury is the best fighter of our generation. He says he is the greatest ever but he is not.
If he did retire, which he will not, then where would he be ranked on the list of great heavyweights?
He is without doubt the best fighter of this HW generation as you say.
You can only beat the guys from your era and he only needs beat Usyk now to underline this era - if AJ does beat Usyk in rematch (doubtful) then he could take that fight but that is imo an easy night's work.
People will point to the quality of opposition but what can he do about that.
He's odds on to retire with the '0' intact. A prestigious club indeed
Eddie Hearn suggests Anthony Joshua has had better career than Tyson Fury
Matchroom Boxing boss Hearn - who Fury called after his win - has compared the key wins of 'The Gypsy King' and Joshua. Hearn listed Wladimir Klitschko, Deontay Wilder, Derek Chisora, Otto Wallin and Whyte as the best wins throughout Fury's 14-year professional career.
Comparing that list to Joshua's, Hearn listed the key wins of his Matchroom posterboy which included Klitschko, Whyte, Joseph Parker, Alexander Povetkin, Andy Ruiz Jr and Kubrat Pulev.
In arguably the best win of both of their careers, Fury ended Klitschko's 20 fight unbeaten run that spanned over a decade when he beat the Ukrainian in 2015. Fury won the unified titles with the win as Klitschko was outpointed for the first time in his professional career.
Two years later Joshua had his chance against 'Dr Steelhammer' in front of 90,000 fans at Wembley. 'AJ' remained unbeaten and did what Fury couldn't, knocking out Klitschko to win the vacant heavyweight belts. Klitschko announced his retirement after the loss.
Fury knocked out Deontay Wilder twice after fighting to a controversial draw with the hard-hitting American in their first meeting. A fight between Joshua and Wilder has been called upon in the past, but the pair are yet to meet in the ring.
Both men now have wins over Whyte, but Joshua has defeated one more former champion than Fury has. 'AJ' looks to become a three-time champion as he is pencilled in to rematch Oleksandr Usyk in July.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/boxi...1020ba1b01b41b
You could defo say he's had the better career in terms of beating top ten opponents and pay days and endorsements - no doubt about it.
But unless AJ beats Fury in the ring - very very doubtful - those in the know will always rank him a rung or two below Fury in terms of his fighting ability. David Haye would no doubt rank AJ as better than Fury and predicting he'd beat Fury by KO in round 2.
I remember Khan once stupidly saying re Brook let's compare bank accounts and see who the superstar is. Very true in terms of bank accounts he was way ahead - in the ring however.
They will milk the 3 time world champion thing if he beats Usyk in a rematch - which actually means he's lost the title twice......
Is this what it’s come to? A win against Dillian Whyte (a fight he should win) now elevates you to the extent that people consider your ATG Credentials. Neither Fury nor AJ will ever be considered anywhere near those conversations, because there’s not enough quality in the division.
But the one I feel sorry for is Usyk. He could beat Fury , AJ and Uncle Tom Cobley, but he will still never be in the shake up.
If he officially goes out on Whyte and swerves Usyk OR AJ winner well, he'll be an extremely talented chump for me. He doesn't get to assume the era gold standard if he fails to fully unify (funny how post fight it was hardly mentioned) and takes all comers. Reevaluate a 39 year old Wlad and wins over a big puncher who had glaring flaws and a ticking time clock to be comprehensively outboxed. Clearly I think Fury has the fluidity, boxing IQ, size, unapproachable confidence and resiliency to give near every top all time fighters shit fits and could surprise a couple. Very interesting hypotheticals for sure but on legacy, comp and accomplishment I cannot see him top 10. Is Fury closer to Holmes than any other great?
Regardless of what he says I don't see any way he avoids the AJ / Usyk winner.
It would also be a new low for boxing if they fail to be able to make this match up happen post rematch. Nothing would surprise me.
Even if he wins that yep it's difficult to rank him all time - none of his peers will be in that top ten either so what does he do?
Spic is right he'd give any ATG problems because of his attributes.
I have him beating Holyfield, Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano. Mike would have to KO him within 4 then things would get interesting. I see Lewis and Foreman beating him inside the distance as they had the size to neutralize his.
Ali would win lopsided UD.
So all in all maybe I do make him an ATG :-\
I think there is a difference between ‘greatest’ and ‘best’ ….. Ali transcended the sport like nobody before or since and fought the toughest contenders ever seen, Louis made 25 defences of the Undisputed title, Foreman was in his forties when he won it back, Marciano won 49 in a row. Fury’s achievements are impressive but not quite in that league yet.
As for ‘best’, would Fury be competitive in the ring with all of them - yep!
Fury is the number one in the division. I think that's only fair and right. But for me the credit he's getting is outweighing what he's actually done. Wlad, Wilder, Whyte. Those are the highlights. Massive props to him for coming back from what he came back from, but it doesn't elevate his in ring achievements. As Primo said you don't get your named mentioned amongst the greats of the sport by beating Dillian Whyte.
He needs to fight and beat the Usyk Joshua winner to be considered the best of the era. Then if you're a glutton for punishment with lots of spare time. Go ahead and discuss his all time standing.
Just reading Doug Fischers thoughts in the Ring Online how Fury would do against the ATGs.
I've cut and pasted the relevant part here. Again, just one man's opinion.
Fury vs Jack Johnson – Fury by close decision (in a bout scheduled for 10-to-15-rounds; if it the fight distance is 20 rounds or more, I’ve going with Li’l Arthur)
Fury vs Jack Dempsey – Fury by unanimous decision or late stoppage (but I think Dempsey has a shot at catching him in the early rounds)
Fury vs Joe Louis – Fury by close decision (but I think he has to survive some wobbly moments and maybe a knockdown)
Fury vs Rocky Marciano – Fury by late stoppage
Fury vs Sonny Liston – Liston by close decision (thanks to a knockdown or two)
Fury vs Muhammad Ali – Ali by unanimous decision
Fury vs Joe Frazier – Frazier by close decision
Fury vs George Foreman – Fury by close decision (but Big George, of course, has a real shot at clipping the Gypsy King)
Fury vs Larry Holmes – Holmes by unanimous decision
Fury vs Mike Tyson – Fury by unanimous decision (but just like Dempsey, Iron Mike has a real shot at ending the fight early)
Fury vs Evander Holyfield – Fury by close, maybe majority or split decision in a great fight
Fury vs Riddick Bowe – Big Daddy by close decision in a great fight
Fury vs Lennox Lewis – Lewis by unanimous decision
Fury vs Vitali Klitchsko – Klitschko by close decision in a mutually punishing fight
This is always a fun exercise. I'll add my own two cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
I think Fury's sheer size give him the edge over a lot of these fighters. Plus he's not just big... he's mobile and knows how to box. Against Wilder he proved he can get up from a devastating punch. That's the "X" factor that gives him a chance against some of history's big punchers.
Good idea - I didn't actually do my own
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
So I'm guessing I have Fury and Vitali as all time greats:)
It's because of this kind of skillset that Fury possesses that many fans - and himself - have made claim to the 'The Gypsy King' ranking highly among the greatest heavyweights of all time.
Yet Atlas - who has been in the boxing game for over 40 years - heavily disagrees with all these claims.
"To start immediately saying that Tyson Fury is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Did you forget about guys named Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Rocky Marciano?
"Fury is the most versatile heavyweight that's been around for a hell of a long time. Technically sound, dimensional, he can do so many things brilliantly smart, and he's a great promoter too.
"To say he's the greatest British heavyweight of all time, I'm not gonna go nuts on that. But to say he's the greatest heavyweight in the history of the sport that's been around longer than any other sport in the world with the names I just finished throwing at you?"
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/boxi...970e718542291a
So tough to rank him historically because you end up ranking head to head vice actual accomplishments. I feel like he beat all styles (boxer, puncher, brawler, technical boxer…etc.). He also is an anomaly- so big and so mobile shouldn’t go together. He also has great skills, a great gas tank, and Holyfield size heart/determination. Head to head I’m not confident anyone in history beats him (not saying he is unbeatable, just saying I can’t look at one fighter and for certain say: “yep, he definitely beats Fury”).
Tyson has forced me to question my ATG rankings and move some of my top choices around. I rank based on historical significance, accomplishment, and quality of opposition. It’s why no one will ever beat Ali historically- he fought too many tough fighters and was an iconic figure. Joe Louis was iconic, but doesn’t have the level of competition that Ali does. Tyson Fury is similar to Larry Holmes to me (one of the fighters I have moved lower/below Fury)- I think he matches up well with anyone who ever fought but his level of competition isn’t as good as Ali, Evander, or Lennox. That being said, he was more consistent than Evander, and didn’t suffer the knockouts that Lennox did.
I still have Ali, Louis, Evander, Lewis, and maybe Foreman ahead of Tyson Fury, but even that will likely change. I agree that he is head and shoulders above anyone today in terms of skill, heart, and charisma. He is a great champion.
Just because Tyson Fury could beat an ATG heavyweight does not make him ahead of them on the list. To be on the list you have to have been the best in your time, faced top fighters, beat all other challengers, have a number of successful defences and proved your greatness by facing some sort of adversity illustrating your heart, courage and desire.
Fury should only be considered when he beats AJ/Usyk, and defends against Joyce/Parker, Dubois/Bryan, faced undefeated fighters like Sanchez, Hrgovic or Ruiz/Ortiz.
If he faces AJ / Usyk winner he'll have faced the best availableQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
He's faced adversity and shown his heart courage and desire - in and out of the ring
So going by your logic he's not far off is he ?
Still need to make a number of defences he has only had 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOIf he faces AJ / Usyk winner he'll have faced the best availableQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
He's faced adversity and shown his heart courage and desire - in and out of the ring
So going by your logic he's not far off is he ?
Fury has been around during a dearth of useful heavyweights, without being nationalistic about it the top american athletes at this sort of height/weight are looking at basketball and football or even UFC for more consistent and less corrupt earnings.
Having said that, it is not Furys fault when he was born or which sport he picked, he has made up for his situation by being a master of salesmanship (remind you of anyone?).
There was another dearth of useful heavyweights immediately after WW2, for obvious reasons, although Rocky, to his credit enlisted.
You cannot hold it against both men just due to these things, they fought and beat who was there, period.
Any talk about Fury coulda shoulda woulda is also relevant to Rocky, so its worthless hyperbole.
Geoff
Ok , so this is getting ridiculous. We’re putting guys into ATG status when all they’ve beaten is tomato cans. To be fair to Fury, that’s all that is around to beat. So here are my unpopular opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
B]Fury vs Jack Johnson –
Fury vs Jack Dempsey –
Complete waste of time . You can’t compare people in a sport 100 years apart ffs. It’s like saying the vikings would be able to win battles against modern day soldiers with tanks, airplanes and fucking mad machine guns and stuff.
Fury vs Joe Louis – Louis . He beat my namesake easy, so why wouldn’t he beat Fury? Yes Fury can move for a big guy, but he looks good doing it because everybody’s crap. There’s levels to everything.
Fury vs Rocky Marciano – Probably Fury. I mean , he’d be fighting a LHW who wasn’t even much of a mover.
Fury vs Sonny Liston – prime Liston before getting sussed out by Clay would’ve made Fury shit his pants.
Fury vs Muhammad Ali – Ali whichever way he wanted to.
Fury vs Joe Frazier – Frazier wouldn’t give him a second’s peace.
Fury vs George Foreman – Foreman knocks him out. We think of Foreman as a bit of a Mummy because of the way Ali took the piss. But nobody else makes him look like that, and he fought and beat some amazing fighters.
Fury vs Larry Holmes – Holmes by unanimous decision
Fury vs Mike Tyson – Prime Mike Tyson sparks him out. When Tyson was at his peak , he was better against the big guys.he used his smaller size as a plus.
Fury vs Evander Holyfield – Holyfield by unanimous decision. Like Frazier, Fury would feel like he’s got a rash all over him.
Fury vs Riddick Bowe – Bowe.
Fury vs Lennox Lewis – Lewis by stoppage. (And I never even liked Lewis.)
Fury vs Vitali Klitchsko – Klitschko late stoppage [/B]
I agree and will take it a step further- the truth is the heavyweight division has rarely been deep or packed with top fighters. In my opinion the heavyweights of the late 60s/early 70s and 90s were deep, and the remainder have ranged fro mediocre to barren. We tend to look back with rose colored lenses but when you start looking at challengers…etc., you see that outside of those two decades there weren’t many heavyweight divisions with a ton of elite fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom
A big reason for this is simply due to the fact that heavyweight sized fighters are a minority around the world- meaning it is still less common to find humans taller than 6’3”. Add to that the fact that it becomes even rarer to find a guy that size who is athletic, a hard worker, and wants to participate in the sport of boxing. The simple fact is that the talent pool for heavyweights is MUCH less than the other weights- ESPECIALLY the middleweights (147-160).
Not sure how many on here competed but think of national tournaments- heavyweights would usually start at the bracket of 32- and the first couple of matches were easy until they started hitting the other seeded competitors. For smaller/mid- weight fighters you would have to win a few “pig tails” just to make it to the bracket. The 90s were the best heavyweight division ever- but it was an anomaly.
The heavyweights Fury beat were just as flawed as the ones Mike Tyson, Larry Holme, and Vlad beat. I would argue that he beat better comp than Dempsey, Tunney, and Marciano. Ali, Evander, and Lennox all beat better comp- but they were all fortunate to be around during those rare moments of deep/ talented heavyweight divisions. Can’t fault Fury for things he can’t control.
I would like to see him fight Usyk once Usyk beats AJ again- but I don’t feel that he has to beat AJ to prove anything. AJ is like Riddick Bowe to Lennox Lewis- he looks like he would be a good match up for Fury but his losses derailed the fights. I don’t see how AJ beats Fury- I don’t even see how he survives 12 rounds.
I agree Fury would destroy AJ. It is personal hate between Fury and everything AJ stands for. No way Fury stays retired and watch these inferior boxers take away his limelight and fame.
I could see AJ Beating Fury.not saying he will, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Fury beat Wilder, and I really don’t rate Wilder. And Whyte. I thought the Whyte that AJ beat was far more pumped and aggressive than the Whyte of last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
But what about Wallin? Sure he was easily the better fighter, but if Wallin had that cut , the fight would’ve been stopped regardless of who was winning the fight. I can’t believe the fight continued. 47 stitches!!
Fury has had his poor performances and it is mainly against fighters he is expecting to beat probably down to lack of motivation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI could see AJ Beating Fury.not saying he will, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Fury beat Wilder, and I really don’t rate Wilder. And Whyte. I thought the Whyte that AJ beat was far more pumped and aggressive than the Whyte of last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
But what about Wallin? Sure he was easily the better fighter, but if Wallin had that cut , the fight would’ve been stopped regardless of who was winning the fight. I can’t believe the fight continued. 47 stitches!!
Against AJ it would be very different. It would be Fury biggest fight for the undisputed title against someone who he does not like. Fury will ruin AJ in the build up with mind games and take him apart in the ring. It will be a one sided slaughter. This is why I would love to see AJ beat Usyk, it is the biggest fight ever in the UK.
Nah, I don’t think so.
I think AJ would be very tough for 7 or 8 rounds, and would have more success than Wilder did (consistent success, not the big shots out of no where). AJ is very skilled, is intelligent, and very strong/muscular. The areas I see being the difference are:
1. Stamina: I see AJ running out of gas after 8 rounds and Fury putting the pressure on to break him mentally.
2. Speed/mobility- AJ is athletic, but Fury seems to be more mobile, and a little faster of hand/feet than AJ.
3. Mentality: Fury has a fighter’s grit and mentality, where AJ is a very talented athlete.
It would be a great fight for the first half, but I don’t see how AJ wins this. Even the knockout scenario- if that 12th round bomb from Wilder in the first fight couldn’t do the trick, I don’t see how anything that AJ throws could.
That would be all true but AJ is damaged and fragile now and Fury will eat him alive now.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Fury will have driven any belief AJ had all out of him by the time the first bell rung.
Would be painful viewing
I still think he is bang average tbh.
So what do you think about the rest of the current crop of heavyweights?