Heavyweights who didnt acheive greatness but could of in a different era ???

Jerry Quarry, was a good fighter, very tough. Just look at his losses: ali twice, frazier twice, foreman and ken Norton. All amazing fighters. I think in this day and age he could be a champ

Anyone else, you can think of

Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Razor Rudduck, Ray Mercer, and Gerry Cooney would be title holders if they were in their prime right now

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

Jerry Quarry, was a good fighter, very tough. Just look at his losses: ali twice, frazier twice, foreman and ken Norton. All amazing fighters. I think in this day and age he could be a champ

Anyone else, you can think of

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IMO, Quarry would be far too small to compete in the top of the division today.

Norton would be able to compete, but would be totally intimidated by 6'5"+ monsters. ;)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Razor Rudduck, Ray Mercer, and Gerry Cooney would be title holders if they were in their prime right now

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IMO:

Morrison would be a slightly better Brewster type fighter, so yeah he would be top 5.

Bomber Bruno would lick anyone today for the first seven rounds, but if you are still there after that, you beat Bruno. Frank would be top 10

Donavon would be another useful addition, but he blows too hot and cold to crack the top 5; again another top 10 fighter.

Mercer had the abilty to be top 2 or 3 today, but it depends if he could be bothered; much like it was in the early 90s.

Cooney could intimidate a lot of fighters today, but he lacks/lacked that certain something... maybe a top 5 fighter.

MORRISON WOULD DEFFINITLY HOLD "A" BELT IN THIS DAY IN AGE. I STILL REMEMBER THAT MERCER KO... OUCH!! BUT I STRESS "A" BELT... AS GOOD AS HE WAS HE WAS SERIOUSLY INCONSISTANT. AND AS FAR AS MERCER GOES...YEP DEF IN THE TOP 3... MORRISONS STILL TRYING TO GET BACK IN THE GAME... POOR GUY. THINKS AIDS IS MADE UP... GOVERNMENT CONSPIRICY. HAS NO IDEA WHY NOONE WANTS TO STEP IN THE RING WITH HIM.. I WOULDNT.

Tommy Morrison would've been a great fighter except for one slight problem....he couldn't fight a lick. Earnie Shavers would be a monster among the HWs of today, as would Cleveland Williams.

Earnie Shavers was 6'1, he could punch like a son of a gun but 6'1 is a tad smallish by today's standards.

Morrison was just reaching his prime when he got aids...he had a decent chin too. With a better trainer he would have been an even bigger force in the division. Vigrets never properly taught him how to set up that huge hook of his. Only had 3 losses (Lewis, Mercer, Bentt) 46 wins 40 KO's pretty damn good.

Tim Witherspoon
Andrew Golota
Randy Cobb

Those guys would be tough fights for anyone in their primes (though jumping on Golota has proven seriously effective)

Ron Lyle would have been a champ in today's heavyweight division

David Tua in his prime would be the undisputed world champ in this era

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Earnie Shavers was 6'1, he could punch like a son of a gun but 6'1 is a tad smallish by today's standards.

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Sounds a bit like tyson and look what he acheived

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Earnie Shavers was 6'1, he could punch like a son of a gun but 6'1 is a tad smallish by today's standards.

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Sounds a bit like tyson and look what he acheived

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TYSON WAS A DIFFERENT STORY

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Originally Posted by 71HOOKS

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Earnie Shavers was 6'1, he could punch like a son of a gun but 6'1 is a tad smallish by today's standards.

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Sounds a bit like tyson and look what he acheived

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TYSON WAS A DIFFERENT STORY

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How ? the description sounds very similar to me

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

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Originally Posted by 71HOOKS

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Earnie Shavers was 6'1, he could punch like a son of a gun but 6'1 is a tad smallish by today's standards.

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Sounds a bit like tyson and look what he acheived

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TYSON WAS A DIFFERENT STORY

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How ? the description sounds very similar to me

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CUZ TYSON WAS A TALL 5'9.5---ALOT SMALLER--- AND HE DIDNT JUST HIT LIKE "A SON OF A GUN" HE KNOCKED EVERYONE BUT 6 OF HIS 50 WINS OUT... HAD 44 KOS

I reckon Georges Carpentier could hold his own against most of todays lot, well ok maybe not Wladimir :P

The point is today's heavies are really really bad. Could John Ruiz have been a two time world champ in any other era?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Ron Lyle would have been a champ in today's heavyweight division

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LOL, someone brought into internet hype ;)

Floyd "JUMBO" Cummings....... just kiddin

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Georges Carpentier could hold his own against most of todays lot, well ok maybe not Wladimir :P

The point is today's heavies are really really bad. Could John Ruiz have been a two time world champ in any other era?

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Carpentier would perhaps be a world class light heavy today, but champion, I doubt it. He lost many of his biggest fights, to Dempsey, Battling Siki, Tommy Gibbons, Gene Tunney and Tommy Loughran. Maybe he was past his prime for these fights but they all occurred when he was in his late 20s and early 30s. None of his recorded weights exceeded 175 lbs.:

http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=10604

He did fight as a heavyweight on a few occasions though, and beat Gunboat Smith:

1914-07-16 Gunboat Smith 49-7-5
London, England W DQ 6 20
~ European (EBU) Heavyweight Title ~
White Heavyweight Championship Of The World

Jack Johnson was heavyweight champ at the time.

He also fought and lost to the great negro heavyweight Joe Jeannette:

1914-03-21 Joe Jeannette 77-16-10
Paris, France L PTS 15 15

Quite simply, John Ruiz is a disgrace to world class heavyweight boxing because of his propensity for clinching. I reckon that a guy like Sonny Liston would have stopped Ruiz in 1 round, similar to what David Tua did. Even the much smaller Marciano would have probably knocked him out, though he might have had to wear him down 1st.

CHUCK WEPNE......LOLOLOLOL

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Razor Rudduck, Ray Mercer, and Gerry Cooney would be title holders if they were in their prime right now

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Fookin Nora BUtterbean could be a belt holder if he was in his prime now! ;D

Shavers could of been a great in another era for sure. Especially now days look at the shite we are faced with.....all these fooking rubish clowns ;D......ok rant over.

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

I was never a heavyweight, though I certainly failed to achieve greatness....but these heavies today have me thinking comeback...

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Originally Posted by undefeated

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

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LOL; both Klitschko brothers do him; Brewster is a 30/70 shot, Rahman a 40/60 bet.

Tyson was superb when everyone was intimidated or intent on surviving against him. ;)

What about heavyweights who did not achieve greatness, and also could not have in any other era?















John Ruiz

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by undefeated

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

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LOL; both Klitschko brothers do him; Brewster is a 30/70 shot, Rahman a 40/60 bet.

Tyson was superb when everyone was intimidated or intent on surviving against him. ;)

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Yeah Wlad's chin would do a great job of standing up to tysons power. He would Beat both Klitschko's, Brewster, Byrd, Toney, Valuev, Ruiz, Rahman with ease in his prime.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by undefeated

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

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LOL; both Klitschko brothers do him; Brewster is a 30/70 shot, Rahman a 40/60 bet.

Tyson was superb when everyone was intimidated or intent on surviving against him. ;)

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u have to be kidding---prime mike would have knocked wlad dead in round flat===period---he would have salivated at the mere thought of that little glass jaw

brewster wouuld have been brutalized beyond belief--he cant fight---i mean chuck shufford and cliff etienee whipped him---he went life and death with kali fookin meehan and just got whipped by sergei who? he even struggled with lu-anne krasniqui

rahman would have been an easy payday for mike back in the day...rahman cant fight, has no conditioning, and a chin thats begging to be hit--he couldnt get out the way of fat james toney's 37 yr old right hands----he would have been a dead duck for tyson in his prime ---period

only vit klit would have made it a fight because of his ring intelligence and his heart--although awkward , he had serious skills too.....just a little too robotic... i think mike would have been able to slip his jab consistently and def wore his body down with shots--rememeber---prime mike was no headhunter exclusively, he was an artist at working the body--he would have beat vit up and wore him down and kayoed him in the mid to late rounds

brew and rahman would have been lucky to get out of the first round and wlad would be kayoed in the first rd with a cold stare form mike

i think tim witherspoon would have fared well in this day and age in his prime...rememeber how much trouble he gave a close to prime larry holmes back in the day? tim wouldnt have broken a sweat with guys like rahman and ruiz--they would be tune-up fights for him...byrd would have been a joke

pinklon thomas--this guy could fight and had skills.....another guy that would have embarrassed ruiz and rahman

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

Jerry Quarry, was a good fighter, very tough. Just look at his losses: ali twice, frazier twice, foreman and ken Norton. All amazing fighters. I think in this day and age he could be a champ

Anyone else, you can think of

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Sam Langford and Gerry Cooney come to mind.

Fair comment, but wasn't Langford too small at 5'6" though?

Or am I getting him confused with Joe Jeanette?

Boxrec has him at 5-8, which isnt too short, when you consider fat Toney is the same height and hes a force in this division...

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by undefeated

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

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LOL; both Klitschko brothers do him; Brewster is a 30/70 shot, Rahman a 40/60 bet.

Tyson was superb when everyone was intimidated or intent on surviving against him. ;)

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You are kidding right? WLAD!??!?!? He was stopped by Ross Purrity!!! Brewster would be koed early since he just lays against the ropes until they get tired and Tyson had too great stamina to get tired. Rahman is the worst wbc heavyweight champ ever possibly, Tyson KO6. Vitali didnt do anything to prove hes even a top 50 fighter, Tyson destroys him.

Yeah, Tyson really couldnt beat anyone that stood up to him right? Larry Holmes, Frank Bruno, and Razor Ruddock didnt stand up to him? Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by muchmoore

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by undefeated

a prime tyson would b 60-0 in this era

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LOL; both Klitschko brothers do him; Brewster is a 30/70 shot, Rahman a 40/60 bet.

Tyson was superb when everyone was intimidated or intent on surviving against him. ;)

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You are kidding right? WLAD!??!?!? He was stopped by Ross Purrity!!! Brewster would be koed early since he just lays against the ropes until they get tired and Tyson had too great stamina to get tired. Rahman is the worst wbc heavyweight champ ever possibly, Tyson KO6. Vitali didnt do anything to prove hes even a top 50 fighter, Tyson destroys him.

Yeah, Tyson really couldnt beat anyone that stood up to him right? Larry Holmes, Frank Bruno, and Razor Ruddock didnt stand up to him? Give me a break.

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everyones going on a bout wlad as though hes the second coming. peak tyson probably blows him away the first time a left hook connects. with his bobbing stance. a peak tyson beats anyone this eras got to offer by a long chalk. take a look at the man who beat spinks without getting hit for reference, the man who absorbed ruddocks bombs and the man who after 2 years as a pro was UNDISPUTED world heavyweight champion. wlad and tyson? not even in the same league.. tyson would be like a kid in a candy shop with this bunch.

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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You are not reading what I said; Wlad has all the tools to not just beat him, but to easily beat him. Brewster I said was a 3 in 10 shot.

Tyson never, ever beat someone who stood up to him. ;)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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You are not reading what I said; Wlad has all the tools to not just beat him, but to easily beat him. Brewster I said was a 3 in 10 shot.

Tyson never, ever beat someone who stood up to him. ;)

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BK - honest answer, if Tyson retired after the Spinks fight where would you have him in your all time top heavies??

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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You are not reading what I said; Wlad has all the tools to not just beat him, but to easily beat him. Brewster I said was a 3 in 10 shot.

Tyson never, ever beat someone who stood up to him. ;)

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BK - honest answer, if Tyson retired after the Spinks fight where would you have him in your all time top heavies??

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I have him #11. with that scenario you stated I guess I would of had him #6.

I like my fighters to show redemption, but you cannot redeem when you have not lost. ;)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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You are not reading what I said; Wlad has all the tools to not just beat him, but to easily beat him. Brewster I said was a 3 in 10 shot.

Tyson never, ever beat someone who stood up to him. ;)

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And I suppose from his losses to ROSS PURRITY, LAMON BREWSTER, and CORRIE SANDERS, you couldn't deduct the same thing about Wlad? Come on... And not to mention the fact that Tyson was simply faster and Wlad could not take his power for one second. As for Brewster, really.. That's just hilarious, Lamon would be cannon fodder for a prime Tyson.. But he wasn't for Wlad. Wonder why..

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea to say Wlad or Brewster would beat Tyson is really laughable and nothing else.. Come on. Vitali would have a shot.

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You are not reading what I said; Wlad has all the tools to not just beat him, but to easily beat him. Brewster I said was a 3 in 10 shot.

Tyson never, ever beat someone who stood up to him. ;)

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BK - honest answer, if Tyson retired after the Spinks fight where would you have him in your all time top heavies??

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I have him #11. with that scenario you stated I guess I would of had him #6.

I like my fighters to show redemption, but you cannot redeem when you have not lost. ;)

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.....Because you have previously said, that at that time you had him as number 1!! Now bearing in mind that after that point his demise as a fighter was almost certainly due to events outside of the ring, you should rate him as you did in his prime, as you would for say Ali.

Too many people assume that the fights he lost, he would still have lost if they had have happended circa 86-89 and that people that came along later such as Lewis would have beaten Tyson during this period.

Fact is we don't know for sure, but my opinion is that he was a shadow of himsellf from 89 onwards and therefore we shouldn't lend any thought to those fights when placing him in the all time list.

Too many people also say that if you stood up to Tyson you would beat him - sounds pretty simple that, but it might require a little bit of fighting ability too ;) I don't think not being afraid and standing up to Tyson would've given anybody any more of a chance of beating him during his prime period.

If you watch his fight against Biggs and then watch the fight against Holyfield - you cannot compare those 2 Tysons as a fighter - no head movement, no jab, no lateral movement, flat footed, I can go on - but they were different animals!!

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Georges Carpentier could hold his own against most of todays lot, well ok maybe not Wladimir :P

The point is today's heavies are really really bad. Could John Ruiz have been a two time world champ in any other era?

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Agree completely. Ray Mercer and Ernie Shavers would do great in the current crappy heavyweight division but i'd even say that Burt Cooper, Mitch Green, and Tyrell Biggs would do well.

Also throw Marvis Frazier in for good measure!!!! ;D

trevor berbick would do well today...