What happens in the rematch and what weight class will Crawford stipulate?
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What happens in the rematch and what weight class will Crawford stipulate?
I thought I read somewhere (and I might be imagining it) that the loser gets to stipulate the weight? I reckon I have got it wrong because it obviously doesn’t sound right.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
I understand Spence activating the rematch clause because it’s the best money fight out there for him.
But I think Crawford wins again , whichever weight it’s at because I think he was also looking at moving up.
Ego and pride are obviously driving Spence's decision, but I can't believe he seriously thinks he has a chance of reversing the result.
It's not as if it was close or controversial.
I would argue that Crawford boxed within himself and still won easily.
I think Spence would benefit from a tune-up at 154 just to get his confidence up, because an immediate rematch with someone as stellar as Crawford will just yield the same result.
Surely rematches have happened in the boxing past that was dominant one way then reversed in the rematch?
It’s possible.
Crawford beats all versions of Spence but expect plenty of excuses to build the rematch.
Spence will want it at 154lb but the same outcome will occur. Spence was awful looking back at the first fight. Crawford did not really move up the gears.
When a fighter takes a beating like that. It is wise to have two or three tune up fights. Or his career is over.
Spence will not be allowed to have warm up fights before facing Crawford, not should he be entitled to either.
Spence will take another beating, lose, collect his money and try campaign at the new weight. Probably without much success and retire.
Crawford probably stops him in less than 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Posted as much in another thread... and will post it here.
Rematch will probably happen at 154. Spence may or may not be more competitive... but he gets whupped again.
Activating the clause takes the Canelo-Crawford circus off the boards, at least for now. One less obstacle to allow Canelo to keep avoiding the dangerous opponents in his OWN weight division.
Would definitely say Spence should take a get back fight at 154 and give himself every shot of salvaging and steadying remainder of career. Saw talk that he may very well replace Derrick James too.
calvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Never been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
Really interesting, as always. Do you think that those issues about weight distribution and transfer show in Anthony Joshua as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
Fight needs to happen at 154 for Spence to even have a chance
Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
Good analysis, and no disagreement in any of your points. Especially considering your source.
My only question is... which I'm sure has been on everybody's mind... how in the hell was Spence able to accumulate such a sterling (and undefeated) record prior to suddenly getting dismantled by Crawford??
This has to be one of the most shocking outcomes of such a high profile and hyped fight. Spence-Crawford was THE fight, that everybody was clamoring for. It took long enough to bring both sides to the table in earnest.
Expectations were at an all-time high.
Then THIS happens...
Spence looked like a child fighting a man. He had no answers. You're right. No tune-up is going to help Spence. In fact, it may officialize his demise as an elite fighter. Right now Spence is still a one-loss fighter. He lost to probably the #1 p4p fighter in the world (I personally still put Inoue ahead of him). So Spence isn't all of a sudden "trash." He DOES have to be careful where he goes from here, though. I still think his best move is a rematch at 154. He may lose anyhow. But no way (one would think) he gets steamrolled like he did in the first fight.
If he dies......he dies
Not sure if Spence should keep fighting, let alone fight Crawford.
If he dies......he dies
Hopefully he fails the physical and is forced to retire.
Spence is and prides himself on being a urination fighter, as in once he gets into his rhythm he's going to urinate all over you, but Crawford, due to his far superior skill level, was able swim in his urine without getting wet and Spence was the one who subsequently ended up getting urinated on.
Spence is going to get soaked again in the rematch
His accident did irreparable damage and is progressively degrading and deteriorating more and more by the year. To continue to incur head trauma, posing not only a threat to his long term health but to his life itself. Spence seems like a good guy and I have no desire to see him become a vegetable or possibly worse, so hopefully some higher ups get involved and squash this rematch by any means necessary and let's get the fighter that most ppl want to see Crawford face next which is him against Boots.
I think Loser activate the rematch. Winner gets to pick the weight. I believe crawford said 154 as he feels he owes spence for giving him his shot so its only fair. I believe spence was supposed to be one of the 3 fights on the PBC contract at a higher weight. Crawford threw a wrench into those plans. Now Canelo fights a charlo. Then there was an empty space. Crawfords not a PBC fighter so Canelo can't really mention his name. (he already said he would only fight crawford at 168 prior to trying to downgrade him recently by saying spence was the only good fighter on his record). So canelo beats charlo and hopes spence avenges his loss at '54 so they can write off the drubbing as being weight drained. So canelo fights him and then maybe benavidez.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Crawford will do what he has to do to spence... The fans will talk the fight up again. Canelo if he gets through the end of his PBC contract will pretend like he doesn't exist or wait him out (crawfords older and already said hes not staying much longer), while talking a bivol rematch, then retirement.
When the dust settles. People will wonder how great crawford could have been if not for bob arum stalling out his career... after trying to scrape some names together for the remainder to put a stamp on his legacy. I feel like spence will be a tragedy, wind up blind in one eye or something and people will be talking about him and when he should have stopped... Canelo will be have a floyd like groupies that will paint him as the best ever then wince every time someone mentions Bivol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_UndisputedI think Loser activate the rematch. Winner gets to pick the weight. I believe crawford said 154 as he feels he owes spence for giving him his shot so its only fair. I believe spence was supposed to be one of the 3 fights on the PBC contract at a higher weight. Crawford threw a wrench into those plans. Now Canelo fights a charlo. Then there was an empty space. Crawfords not a PBC fighter so Canelo can't really mention his name. (he already said he would only fight crawford at 168 prior to trying to downgrade him recently by saying spence was the only good fighter on his record). So canelo beats charlo and hopes spence avenges his loss at '54 so they can write off the drubbing as being weight drained. So canelo fights him and then maybe benavidez.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Crawford will do what he has to do to spence... The fans will talk the fight up again. Canelo if he gets through the end of his PBC contract will pretend like he doesn't exist or wait him out (crawfords older and already said hes not staying much longer), while talking a bivol rematch, then retirement.
When the dust settles. People will wonder how great crawford could have been if not for bob arum stalling out his career... after trying to scrape some names together for the remainder to put a stamp on his legacy. I feel like spence will be a tragedy, wind up blind in one eye or something and people will be talking about him and when he should have stopped... Canelo will be have a floyd like groupies that will paint him as the best ever then wince every time someone mentions Bivol.
It's really too bad Crawford wasted so many years with Arum. Against Spence we saw a glimpse of just how great Crawford could've been for many more years. Now he's on the downside of his prime. Hopefully he's got a few more big fights left in him. "Boots" Ennis was mentioned, and that would be a great fight. Canelo? Meh. If everything was equal and Bud could fight Canelo at a good weight for both, Crawford would rip Ginger a new one. He's that much more of a better fighter. Regarding Canelo groupies... you've got it pegged correctly. I personally think Canelo avoids Benavidez and rides off into the sunset, claiming ATG status that in my opinion doesn't belong to him. His career was too manufactured for my liking. Too bad Bivol didn't agree to see him again at 175. He would've knocked him out this time around. Spence... well... I feel for the guy. He hasn't got too many outs here. From undefeated and at the top of his fame... to having been thoroughly thrashed by Crawford in convincing fashion. Who knows what's next for Spence...
It could just be me being biased but, I was never big on Spence. He had some good fights and I think he still can have an edge over some 154lb fighters just based on a willingness to mix it up. He was moving along at a normal pace and then everyone anointed him the next big thing after giving Mayweather a black eye and maybe a rib issue in sparring (for guerrero)and Mayweather talked him up. I just remember thinking "over a sparring match?"... I get it sometimes that its all we have to go on and sometimes things get heated and it becomes the stuff of legend. Stuff that is typically unheard of against certain fighters (like page dropping tyson). I'll say after that I did make a note to catch spence's fights after that but still wasn't sold on him being the greatest. Every fighter seemed to have a "but..."Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
Good analysis, and no disagreement in any of your points. Especially considering your source.
My only question is... which I'm sure has been on everybody's mind... how in the hell was Spence able to accumulate such a sterling (and undefeated) record prior to suddenly getting dismantled by Crawford??
This has to be one of the most shocking outcomes of such a high profile and hyped fight. Spence-Crawford was THE fight, that everybody was clamoring for. It took long enough to bring both sides to the table in earnest.
Expectations were at an all-time high.
Then THIS happens...
Spence looked like a child fighting a man. He had no answers. You're right. No tune-up is going to help Spence. In fact, it may officialize his demise as an elite fighter. Right now Spence is still a one-loss fighter. He lost to probably the #1 p4p fighter in the world (I personally still put Inoue ahead of him). So Spence isn't all of a sudden "trash." He DOES have to be careful where he goes from here, though. I still think his best move is a rematch at 154. He may lose anyhow. But no way (one would think) he gets steamrolled like he did in the first fight.
but Mikey Garcia was a 135lb fighter....
but Lamont Peterson was never the same after Mathysse
but Kell Brook just had his head squashed like a grape against GGG
but Danny Garcia lost to a unheralded Mauricio Herrera.
etc.
I mean its no small feat eventually steamrolling or overwhelming Smaller fighters, older fighters or gate keepers and it its par for the course with most fighters. I guess maybe I was looking for what everyone else saw and just came up empty too much. I thought Porter would take him, and even when he didn't I think he did enough where I could see a rematch going either way.
In regards to the shock...
I think it could have been a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other. 6 thinking that spence was greater than he was because of the above... and half a dozen of Crawford having lack luster promotions and being left on the back burner to cook too long took scuffing up his shine. Not everyone was saw Crawford as a sleeper or sorts, but definitely a lot of people dismissed the punches landed on Spence prior and the mistakes because he eventually over came and bullied them into submission. Overachiever meets underachiever billed as Immovable object vs. Unstoppable Force.
Crawford deserves credit and is a role model for kids when you talk about believing in yourself and it being the path from Perceiving to achieving. Left his promoter, went independent. Kicked in the door, hung tough, cut a deal With a nod of from spence, got his shot... the rest is History. Credit to spence for believing in himself enough to put it all on the line and for what he has accomplished, my personal criticisms aside.
This is it. Spence's style has a limited shelf life and he knows he may have gone past his expiry date and so now more than ever the rest of his career is about paydays. The rematch is by far the biggest payday he can get at 154. If he loses he's only still lost to one guy and is marketable to some extent at 154 having banked the rematch money. If he takes a tuneup he could easily look shot and nobody wants to see the rematch. So he's going to do the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
Crawford's thinking won't be too dissimilar either. He is apparently not going to be around much longer and the rematch is the biggest cheque at 154 and could/should be another easy night's work for him. He's then an established name at 154 and unbeaten and may have improved his box office power with two defeats of Spence. It puts him in the best position he could possibly be in. The rematch works for both of them.
The rematch is the price we have to pay for getting the 1st fight :-\
I suppose if I came from the premise that he was completely done I can see that route. As far as preserving it all for one last big payday. But however brutal and one way the fight went I hold a little hope and belief :-X for a rebuild. The attempt of one at least. It's really just hard to say and know for sure where he is post Crawford. Though it seemed before the bell sounded that he had a certain resignation in his demeanor and all around "look". Often we see guys spiral down when knocked off the perch never to return. Especially off of one-way knockouts. And his age is a big factor. But he could very well mount it all for one last recommitted charge with a now cemented and rival who he's seen in the ring. Even if thru a crimson swollen mask. Clearly Crawford is a massive favorite and he also has seen what Spence works with. So he too will be expected to surpass his own victory. But I think 154 will suit Spence much better. To me his biggest obstacle is upstairs here. He like so many fighters today contributed to his downfall with unreal inactivity and almost a lazy mindset. Be it Bud or someone else, he sure as shit better fully recommit to have himself fully tuned or he'll go the way of so many before him. The man could wind up a trivia question. But I'll always give a guy taking his first loss to the very best, 1 or 2, fighter in the world today at least some benefit of the doubt. It's entirely on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
The trainer roulette wheel I'll defer and take the word of a professional like yourself. Have no idea. I'm thinking though that a tune up is more for the trainer/fighter new waters intro. Or at this level can much of that be determined in the gym? He's 33 and rather work out a kink or try things vs some light touch under live lights with a crowd than immediately back under the burner with Crawford. He's no pup and has always been a little stand head high too. As a businessman he can play safe and guaranteed for rematch but getting 'back' on his own terms first and notching a win can be a benefit. In a way it feels like that was much of the problem leading in. That mental and physical stagnation that helps to sabotage. You simply cannot be "the best" bringing "the best" with literally just 1 fight over 2.5 years! That goes for all of them. It's insane and a massive problem in boxing today. Guys just waiting for the lottery to fall in their lap, tip toing around each other rather than take that chance. If the pressure of a tune up is more than he can handle even after his last fight then maybe it's for the better that way. Guys calling themselves p4p or being handed immediate rankings today should feel pressure to perform. Be under the spotlight. But too many hide out, just waiting. Mentalities are different now. I look back at how ravaged and written off maybe a Meldrick Taylor was post Chavez. And he was shot up. But compared to today he was still able to mount a comeback, claim a championship and get himself back into a massive fight with Norris. One that proved a brutal bridge too far of course. Then again, he was what...7,8 years younger than Spence? Maybe it's not a good thing to compare the two ;D. Let the chips fall where they may.
Emanuel Steward had a few things he called as close to iron laws of boxing as you could get and one of them was in rematches the more skilled fighter almost always wins. I don't think there's any rebuild Spence can do that is going to change things. Maybe his timing can improve but his hands and feet are not going to get any faster. Well behind as far as boxing brain goes too. Maybe Crawford is bullshitting that moving to 154 would help him too and it turns into a massive Spence advantage but even if the extra weight really helps Spence I just see Crawford sharpshooting Spence for twelve rounds off the back foot and winning basically every round. Too fast and too slick.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliI suppose if I came from the premise that he was completely done I can see that route. As far as preserving it all for one last big payday. But however brutal and one way the fight went I hold a little hope and belief :-X for a rebuild. The attempt of one at least. It's really just hard to say and know for sure where he is post Crawford. Though it seemed before the bell sounded that he had a certain resignation in his demeanor and all around "look". Often we see guys spiral down when knocked off the perch never to return. Especially off of one-way knockouts. And his age is a big factor. But he could very well mount it all for one last recommitted charge with a now cemented and rival who he's seen in the ring. Even if thru a crimson swollen mask. Clearly Crawford is a massive favorite and he also has seen what Spence works with. So he too will be expected to surpass his own victory. But I think 154 will suit Spence much better. To me his biggest obstacle is upstairs here. He like so many fighters today contributed to his downfall with unreal inactivity and almost a lazy mindset. Be it Bud or someone else, he sure as shit better fully recommit to have himself fully tuned or he'll go the way of so many before him. The man could wind up a trivia question. But I'll always give a guy taking his first loss to the very best, 1 or 2, fighter in the world today at least some benefit of the doubt. It's entirely on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
The trainer roulette wheel I'll defer and take the word of a professional like yourself. Have no idea. I'm thinking though that a tune up is more for the trainer/fighter new waters intro. Or at this level can much of that be determined in the gym? He's 33 and rather work out a kink or try things vs some light touch under live lights with a crowd than immediately back under the burner with Crawford. He's no pup and has always been a little stand head high too. As a businessman he can play safe and guaranteed for rematch but getting 'back' on his own terms first and notching a win can be a benefit. In a way it feels like that was much of the problem leading in. That mental and physical stagnation that helps to sabotage. You simply cannot be "the best" bringing "the best" with literally just 1 fight over 2.5 years! That goes for all of them. It's insane and a massive problem in boxing today. Guys just waiting for the lottery to fall in their lap, tip toing around each other rather than take that chance. If the pressure of a tune up is more than he can handle even after his last fight then maybe it's for the better that way. Guys calling themselves p4p or being handed immediate rankings today should feel pressure to perform. Be under the spotlight. But too many hide out, just waiting. Mentalities are different now. I look back at how ravaged and written off maybe a Meldrick Taylor was post Chavez. And he was shot up. But compared to today he was still able to mount a comeback, claim a championship and get himself back into a massive fight with Norris. One that proved a brutal bridge too far of course. Then again, he was what...7,8 years younger than Spence? Maybe it's not a good thing to compare the two ;D. Let the chips fall where they may.
Yep no doubt, I'm fully going Crawford in rematch. But in an ideal scenario Spence would do a tear down of some habits he's shown in and out of ring prior and give himself the best chance for success complete with new trainer who comes in levelheaded and not trying to change the world. I think Buds serious about the move up. Really both are and its due time for it. But I'd also like to see Bud stop talking up Canelo jump, that has gotten totally out of hand and shows his hand a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingEmanuel Steward had a few things he called as close to iron laws of boxing as you could get and one of them was in rematches the more skilled fighter almost always wins. I don't think there's any rebuild Spence can do that is going to change things. Maybe his timing can improve but his hands and feet are not going to get any faster. Well behind as far as boxing brain goes too. Maybe Crawford is bullshitting that moving to 154 would help him too and it turns into a massive Spence advantage but even if the extra weight really helps Spence I just see Crawford sharpshooting Spence for twelve rounds off the back foot and winning basically every round. Too fast and too slick.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliI suppose if I came from the premise that he was completely done I can see that route. As far as preserving it all for one last big payday. But however brutal and one way the fight went I hold a little hope and belief :-X for a rebuild. The attempt of one at least. It's really just hard to say and know for sure where he is post Crawford. Though it seemed before the bell sounded that he had a certain resignation in his demeanor and all around "look". Often we see guys spiral down when knocked off the perch never to return. Especially off of one-way knockouts. And his age is a big factor. But he could very well mount it all for one last recommitted charge with a now cemented and rival who he's seen in the ring. Even if thru a crimson swollen mask. Clearly Crawford is a massive favorite and he also has seen what Spence works with. So he too will be expected to surpass his own victory. But I think 154 will suit Spence much better. To me his biggest obstacle is upstairs here. He like so many fighters today contributed to his downfall with unreal inactivity and almost a lazy mindset. Be it Bud or someone else, he sure as shit better fully recommit to have himself fully tuned or he'll go the way of so many before him. The man could wind up a trivia question. But I'll always give a guy taking his first loss to the very best, 1 or 2, fighter in the world today at least some benefit of the doubt. It's entirely on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
The trainer roulette wheel I'll defer and take the word of a professional like yourself. Have no idea. I'm thinking though that a tune up is more for the trainer/fighter new waters intro. Or at this level can much of that be determined in the gym? He's 33 and rather work out a kink or try things vs some light touch under live lights with a crowd than immediately back under the burner with Crawford. He's no pup and has always been a little stand head high too. As a businessman he can play safe and guaranteed for rematch but getting 'back' on his own terms first and notching a win can be a benefit. In a way it feels like that was much of the problem leading in. That mental and physical stagnation that helps to sabotage. You simply cannot be "the best" bringing "the best" with literally just 1 fight over 2.5 years! That goes for all of them. It's insane and a massive problem in boxing today. Guys just waiting for the lottery to fall in their lap, tip toing around each other rather than take that chance. If the pressure of a tune up is more than he can handle even after his last fight then maybe it's for the better that way. Guys calling themselves p4p or being handed immediate rankings today should feel pressure to perform. Be under the spotlight. But too many hide out, just waiting. Mentalities are different now. I look back at how ravaged and written off maybe a Meldrick Taylor was post Chavez. And he was shot up. But compared to today he was still able to mount a comeback, claim a championship and get himself back into a massive fight with Norris. One that proved a brutal bridge too far of course. Then again, he was what...7,8 years younger than Spence? Maybe it's not a good thing to compare the two ;D. Let the chips fall where they may.
I don't think that I have seen Joshua since he started working with Derrick James.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraReally interesting, as always. Do you think that those issues about weight distribution and transfer show in Anthony Joshua as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI don't think that Spence has a tune up in him, and I am pretty sure that Errol doesn't think that he has one in him, either. To me, it looks like a cash out move, because his option, moneywise, is Crawford and a tune up fight would put that at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliNever been big on Roy as full time trainer. Partly as he’s still determined to fight himself but Roy is going to Roy and always be a focus. He and Spence come off as polar opposites in personality and style. Either way, new trainer screams “tune up needed” before a Bud rematch with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICcalvin ford & roy jones jr are rumoured to be in the running as replacement optionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The trainer change...I remember when Derrick was getting a ton of credit for teaching Spence to fight like a pro. In my opinion- and a this is based on a detailed email he sent me regarding a fighter I was with detailing what he saw as that fighter's limitations and how he would fix them- he fundamentally misunderstands some things about stance and weight distribution and transfer. I think that all of these things are visible in the fighter. I don't think that the change is going to make a difference; you aren't going to make any changes in a short term situation, even in the best of circumstances, and I don't think that Spence will do any sparring beyond the bare minimum for this fight. If offered, I would take the payday but I wouldn't quit my job because it is not a career positive.
apparently terence wants the rematch at welter. does that give errol the out he needs?
I hope the rematch does not happen. Spence can rebuild at 154lb and Crawford take on the best Welterweight in the world.
terence is talking like the rematch is no longer going ahead
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Originally Posted by TIC
They probably negotiating and it is not going well.
The fight was too one sided for a rematch and Crawford should defend his title against the next available contender.