With so many great names on his résumé, who stands out as the best fighter he ever faced? If all of Ali’s opponents fought each other at their absolute peak, who do you think would come out on top?
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With so many great names on his résumé, who stands out as the best fighter he ever faced? If all of Ali’s opponents fought each other at their absolute peak, who do you think would come out on top?
Tough question because my answer would be Joe Frazier who was an undisputed and undefeated champion who made numerous defences of his title. Joe gave Ali his hardest fights and made him his nemesis (which was not easy considering all the achievements Ali had).
Now you could say but Big George Foreman beat Frazier easy twice but styles make fights and Joe was past his prime.
George Foreman would be second, biggest puncher and such a powerful man who became champion at over 40 years of age.
Liston would be third who was also intimidating and powerful champion.
Lyle, Shavers, Norton, and Patterson would be on the list.
Holmes beat Ali so does not count. Larry is my 3rd best heavyweight of all time.
To me, it's George Foreman. Foreman was a feared and extremely ducked fighter who before Ali crushed nearly everyone in his path. Joe Frazier? George knocked him out twice, including the first time when Joe was still undefeated. Ken Norton gave Ali fits, and George erased him also. Same thing with feared puncher Ron Lyle. Prime for prime, I just don't see any other of Ali's opponents being able to stand up to Big George.
Henry Cooper.
It’s gotta be Foreman hasn’t it? I mean he was seen as a killer, and the tactics Ali used were at best Risky , at worst downright mental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
100 percent, Primo. ;D
Accounts of the fight have Angelo Dundee going ballistic in the first few rounds... imploring with Ali to get off the ropes, and probably fearing for Ali's life. ;D
Ali’s best opponent for me is also Foreman. I just can’t see anyone else beating him at his best. Frazier’s style plays right into his hands, and while Holmes had the skills, I think Foreman catches him at some point, and I’m not sure he gets back up. A prime Liston might be the one to give Foreman his toughest challenge.
Just to change the thread a bit ….. (sorry)
I think Ken Norton was Ali’s most DIFFICULT opponent. You could not really separate them after three tough fights, and Ken went life and death with an absolute peak Larry Holmes. Ali struggled the most against Ken Norton.
He is criminally underrated because he got caught cold against two huge punchers in Foreman and Cooney. Lennox Lewis also got caught cold against some big punches.
I always thought Norton never warmed up properly and was a slow starter in fights - so was Joe Frazier. Both Eddie Futch fighters. His other fighters like Marlon Starling, Berbick and even McCollough were good good fighters who all liked to settle in a rhythm. Even Michael Spinks was a long term rhythm fighter who also ultimately got caught cold in a marquee fight.
If Ken entered the ring hot, or didn’t get caught cold…… he would have given Liston, Foreman and Frazier fits. Just like he did against Ali.
One of the most underrated fighters in history, competing in a division stacked with talent.
Great post, X. By all means, take the thread in any direction you like—that’s what these discussions are for. I agree that Norton was Ali’s toughest opponent, though I have Frazier as a very close second. You could argue Frazier won the first two fights, and if Futch had let the third continue, who knows if Ali would have made it out himself.
I hadn’t made the connection about Futch-trained fighters being slow starters and needing time to find their rhythm, but now that you mention it, there’s definitely truth to it. Great insight—thanks for sharing. Norton is sadly underrated, largely because of his chin, but his fight with Holmes was an all-time classic.
Larry Holmes was chasing Big George Foreman for a fight. I feel Holmes had the chin to withstand the power of George and the boxing skills to convincingly outbox him at their peaks.
Master, I agree—Holmes had the skills to trouble any of Ali’s top opponents. But he got caught clean plenty, and if a prime Foreman landed flush, I’m not sure he’s getting back up.
Well in hindsight it’s Larry Holmes but I try and tell myself that fight never happened.
So with that parked to one side has to be Foreman for me.
If prime Holmes fights prime Foreman I’d fancy Holmes to avoid being bombed out and get the UD.
Holmes always got up and he was knocked down hard by some of the biggest punchers in history. How he got up after Shavers, Snipes and Tyson I do not know. Holmes had amazing recuperative powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Six Four
Am sure he said it was hitting the canvas hard that woke him up when Shavers hit him
I've always felt Foreman beats Holmes. His relentless pressure would force Larry out of his comfort zone, constantly cutting off the ring and making him work overtime. Foreman’s right hand would crash over Holmes’ jab, and once he’s hurt, George has the killer instinct to finish. Norton slowed Holmes with bodywork and forced him into a firefight—Foreman would do it even better. Holmes struggled against uppercuts on the ropes, and I don’t see him standing his ground in center ring against Big George. Unless he fights a perfect fight, Foreman’s right hand finds him eventually.
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Originally Posted by The Six Four
I agree, Six Four. Of course, I have to admit to a slight anti-Holmes bias. ;D Never liked the guy personally. But besides that, Larry got knocked senseless by Mike Tyson. Foreman was a much bigger man, and had thudding power. I think George hunts Larry down and knocks him out.
Holmes’ personality didn’t do him any favors, but in the ring, he was elite. That said, I always felt Jimmy Young was slicker and better defensively than Holmes. Foreman nearly took Young out in the seventh, and if he could hurt a defensive wizard like that, I don’t see Holmes surviving. George cuts off the ring, lands the right hand over the jab, and once he has Larry in trouble, he finishes the job.
Holmes had a great chin and was tested by faster boxers than Foreman.
George was too reliant on his power and did not have the best hand speed or footwork to corner Holmes.
Larry jab was a piston and his heart meant he would take the big punches of George and land his own to win by dominant decision.