ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
he was one of the pioneers...
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.
Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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Originally Posted by BABABOOEY
Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.
Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?
i heard that the draw with gracie would have been an easy UD for ken had they had decisions back then....
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol :o ???
What difference does that make when the core audience is teenage boys :(
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Dude, pay aattention to the crowd at those events. There are plenty of women in those audiences. Ken was the poster boy for the UFC. He was an easier look to sell.
And I will admit, if they had decisions back then, Shamrock would have won the rematch with Gracie.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Its kinda like the Babe Ruth-Hank Aaron thing in baseball. Aaron's the all time leader in home runs and RBI, yet Ruth is the sports most glorified figure.
In their primes, Gracie was in another league from Shamrock, yet he's the guy most talked about since.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
another league? Gracie tapped out Shamrock in the first fight but was never able to do anything in the second. If that fight had happened under current rules he would have lost. Ken studied the guard and was simply way better prepared. Ken during his day was one of the top 3 fighters in the world. The MMA game has evolved so much since then and he has only gotten older. He has changed up his training to be more modern but he is just to old to compete with the top tier LHW's. He helped pioneer the sport and was very successful during his first tenure. I wish he had never done the WWF bit. He wasted lots of good years there, but I'm sure his wallet is better for it.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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Originally Posted by VanChilds
another league? Gracie tapped out Shamrock in the first fight but was never able to do anything in the second. If that fight had happened under current rules he would have lost. Ken studied the guard and was simply way better prepared. Ken during his day was one of the top 3 fighters in the world. The MMA game has evolved so much since then and he has only gotten older. He has changed up his training to be more modern but he is just to old to compete with the top tier LHW's. He helped pioneer the sport and was very successful during his first tenure. I wish he had never done the WWF bit. He wasted lots of good years there, but I'm sure his wallet is better for it.
totally agree..the fact that he is 42 yrs old and still competitive tells u how great he was in his prime
no way that gracie was way above him.......he would have won a wide UD in the rematch and he also beat dan severn too and kimo and bas rutten dont forget
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
You guys mention how Royce tapped Shamrock out the first fight, but couldnt do anything the second. But why do you only look at it that way? How come you dont consider that in two fights, Shamrock NEVER figured him out? You say Ken figured out the guard, but why then didnt Shamrock make Royce tap out? Its always "Royce woulda lost if they had decisions back then". Well they didn't. And Shamrock couldnt beat him. And thats what matters.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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Originally Posted by LawHoops
he was one of the pioneers...
his prime was in pancrase
he tapped bas rutten 1ce
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
would Shamrock be more world renowned if he had never went to the WWF?
I liked Frank better to be honest.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Good point. IMO Frank Shamrock was better.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDkYO...earch=pancrase
here is some pancrasean fighting, which is gloveless w/o knuckles, basically palm strikes...
thsi is rutten vs frank shamrock
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Well if you guys wanna go with todays rules in the Shamrock vs. Gracie 2 fight...they never would have fought seeing as how Royce is a welterweight and Ken a light heavyweight, even heavyweight. And also by todays rules, the ref would have stood them up alot more because all Ken did was lay and pray. He scored a takedown, and did nothing. He wouldn't have won the decision today, because that fight would never take place like that. And also there are no longer 30 min superfights. So Ken did absolutely nothing to prove he was better than Royce, yesteday or today.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABABOOEY
Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.
Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?
yea I addmit he waz an alright fighter in my opinion but not great. I didn't and still don't really care to much for ken shamrock
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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Originally Posted by rush_381
Well if you guys wanna go with todays rules in the Shamrock vs. Gracie 2 fight...they never would have fought seeing as how Royce is a welterweight and Ken a light heavyweight, even heavyweight. And also by todays rules, the ref would have stood them up alot more because all Ken did was lay and pray. He scored a takedown, and did nothing. He wouldn't have won the decision today, because that fight would never take place like that. And also there are no longer 30 min superfights. So Ken did absolutely nothing to prove he was better than Royce, yesteday or today.
I disagree that Ken just layed and prayed...and in current rules with the standups Ken's superior striking and shooting would have helped. At the end of the second fight Ken looked fine and royce was busted up...plus if all ken did was lay and pray than all royce did was lay on his back and hope for the bell. Ken was doing more striking albeit to the body but Royce wasn't attempting to improve his position either. Outside of going for an ezekiel over and over. He didn't attempt to work a trianlge or an arm bar. Todays rules would arguably work against Royce. Without the 30 min to 1 hr fights he wouldn't have the ability to just wait out another fighter plus his style of fighting rarely wins decisions. These two guys are some of the pillars of the sport and no one will argue that Royce is one of the finest submission fighters ever but to say that they are anything else other than equals is absurd.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
Royce said himself, when I guy like Ken has such a weight advantage and cant finish him in 30 minutes, that proves nothing. They're both exceptional grapplers, but if they were the same weight, Royce would destroy Ken. And we can say they're not equals just by the records because Royce's record against Ken is 1-0-1 while ken's is 0-1-1.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
yeah no one ever gets a bad decision and by your rational Mcbride is better that Tyson b/c he beat him once...don't throw records out there like that makes it cut and dry and if you've seen the fights then you know Ken was viable in both fights and was pounding Gracie into the ground in the second.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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Originally Posted by VanChilds
yeah no one ever gets a bad decision and by your rational Mcbride is better that Tyson b/c he beat him once...don't throw records out there like that makes it cut and dry and if you've seen the fights then you know Ken was viable in both fights and was pounding Gracie into the ground in the second.
Which decision are you speaking of? Gracie tapped Ken out in the first fight and the second was a draw. Ken losing that first fight had nothing to do with a bad decision. And if by "pounding into the ground" you mean landed one good punch and tossed a few muffins, then I guess I agree. If Ken is as good as Royce, with that weight advantage theres no excuse for not finishing him except...wait, he's not as good.
Re: ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?
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If Ken is as good as Royce, with that weight advantage theres no excuse for not finishing him except...wait, he's not as good. :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :goodpost:
