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I just watched MTV's top 5 M.C.'s of All-Time show. How the heck can they seriously tell me that their list ranks like this:
1- Jay-Z
2- Tupac
3- Biggie
4- Rakim
5- Nas
It makes me so sick that most of the NY so called rap media is on this guys %$#@ so hard!!! He is NOT the best of all time. Half his rhymes are old Biggie lyrics!! At best, he's equal with Nas. He's not better than him!! Nas won their battle!
Well, although its not a boxing post, its an interesting topic. I've long argued the point that the list of the greatest M.C.'s should START with Rakim and KRS One as No. 1 and 2, in either order, and go on from there.
The notion that Jigga is the top of all time is a joke. Successful, yes. Top 5, yes. Best ever, no.
it kills me that anybody mentions Biggie's fat a$$ at all...he's only there because of his beef with pac...I mean he put out one CD then got merc'd...he was severly overrated and Jay-Z's resonable doubt, in my lifetime, and hard knock life kill all his crap....and Naz only had one good Cd and won the rap battle with a full Jay-Z not the still hungry Jigga...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare
And how in the hell isn't LL cool J on there...
Oh, they had KRS on the list. . . . . . He was number six!!!
It was a group of about 10 people at a table having a discussion, and giving their reasons for voting the way they did. I didnt recognize any of them except Swaye.
Can anyone tell me, why is most of NY on Jay-Z's @#$%?
I cant argue w/ you mentioning LL. But is he really top 5? I guess you're saying he should have Biggie's spot?
I really wish I had time to fax Mr. Cee during his old school at noon show. It amazes me how everyday, no matter what era of music he's playing, he manages to get some Jay-Z in there.
And sadly, I rarely hear him play Kane, who gave him his start, and is probably a top 10 all timer.
lol... So the fact that he put out one of the greatest albums of all time (ready to die) is not worth much to you huh.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
im not out to diss jay z , as he made a great album too in the form of reasonable doubt but I dont know why you are disrespecting BIG.
jigga is the man ;)
From a English boy's perspective - I like
Dre
Snoop
Pac
Ice Cube
Eminem
......And the greatest Rap tune ever is "New Jack Hustler" by Ice T
Let's say ready to die is good...that's one album... and life after death only had a few tracks on it not to mention it was a double disc....and he's top five alltime? That's bull$hit....I mean this whole crap about the best rapper only started after biggie and pac got killed...and it's stupid because their beef was personal and didn't anything to do with who was the better rapper...but anyway i think best to come out of NY is between LL and Jigga...and then you really can't decide because it's all opinionated, but i guarantee this, it just sounds stupid to say biggie is top 20 all-time let along top 5 when he's only had 1 album, and the other came out after he died...don't mean to diss him, but when you're that overrated it kinda puts a target on your back...Quote:
Originally Posted by Poom
Well, I'll consider that Biggie had 2 albums. Not his fault he got whacked right after it dropped. But to me, I agree with you. Theres NO WAY IN THE WORLD a guy is No. 3, all time with just 2 albums under his belt. It's a discredit to Rakim's 8 albums, to KRS's 10 or 11 albums, and to LL's 11 albums. Its insulting.
And while he was witty with his words and delivery, he never took on complex issues like KRS or Rakim, or even Nas. He was all about clothes, and women in his raps. You cant be top 3 all time with that alone.
But now this all begs the question. If not no. 1, where should Jay-Z be on an all time list?
I'll give him top 5 status, but not no. 1.
That's ridiculous. Both--not just one--of Biggie's albums were classics. True, the second one had a lot of filler, but also had some blazin shit. LL gets his golden era props, but the guy was never for the true hedz from day one, and is not top 5-worthy by a long shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
What else--despite Jay's drop in effort and quality output since Reasonable Doubt (another classic, don't even front), he *still* murdered Nas in that battle, and would do it again every time. The first Nas album is a classic--he looked like the next coming of Rakim after that--but he couldn't keep his weight up. Which is why that "one hot album every ten year average" line of Jay's is so ill--it's what everyone knows about nas.
I don't think MTV's list is too crazy, if we're limiting this to mainstream rappers. I wouldn't put Jay-Z above Biggie, might not put him over Tupac--and wouldn't put any of them above Rakim. But I think they have the right guys, wrong order--except for Nas (plenty of guys--Ghostface, Aceyalone, Big Boi, and Pharoah Monch) beat out Nas when you consider that he put out more than just Illmatic (and that the rest was pretty much consistently garbage).
Nah, you should listen more. There's a lot more going on than clothes and women. The other stuff's not all as out there as it is on, say, Jay's first album, but it's there. There's a lot of storytelling, some show of vulnerability, and a subtle autobiographical picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by BABABOOEY
I think the mosts innovative and influential rapper of the last 20 years, peaked with this little gem below ;D
Yo VIP let's kick it
All right stop collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
Will it ever stop yo I don't know
Turn off the lights and I'll glow
To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle
Dance go rush to the speaker that booms
I'm killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom
Deadly when I play a dope melody
Anything less than the best is a felony
Love it or leave it you better gain weight
You better hit bull's eye the kid don't play
If there was a problem yo I'll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it
That's true--I don't know how any top 5 list worth its weight could leave HIM off.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I also don't agree with all the top guys being from the east coast..these list are biased...no mention of Cube or Scarface, Eminem has to be on there because he had to be that much better because he's white, what about Andre3000.
NY peeps believe they're the only ones that can do it...
I'm done, but just for the record i'll list my favs....
in no paticular order
2pac, Busta Rhymes, MJG, Eminem, Cube, Jay-Z (only the first 3 cds), Andre3000, and that's it for me...personally i think that with the exception of M&M and a few others...everyone that came out after Pac died...is WHACK!!!!! 50, game, geezy, T.I., and whoever else they're all whack!!!!
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by shza
First off, which of you said "Jay-Z murdered Nas in their battle" - Whoever said that needs to be shot! Everybody knows "Ether" killed "Takeover" and that weak mixtape joint Jay made about Nas baby mother. Jay's more popular, sells more records, got more money . . . but true rap heads know Nas won that battle.
NIGGAS TRYING TO SUBTRACT MY LIFE
MY MATHEMATICS IS PRECISE --- I CARRY THE 9
JIGGA
And to whoever mentioned it, stop hatin' on NY. Not for nothin, we started this rap thing. West Coast, H-Town, A-Town, Dirty South, all yall need to recognize. Thats why the names in the top 10 are East Coast names. Scarface and Snoop and Ice Cube are nice, but theyre primarily gangster rappers, talking about drive by's and weed smoking. You gotta bring more to the table then that.
Really because all biggie talked about was bitches and clothes...Quote:
Originally Posted by BABABOOEY
Ether was aight. It had better production than that Doors hook on Takeover, but that's not Nas on the dials anyway. Lyric for lyric, Takeover was way more cutting, which is what a battle-track is all about. This thing wasn't about (I mean, really it was, but we should pretend it wasn't) making a hit single--it was about calling the other person out as a bitch, and jay did a much better job of that than nas did. People just made a big deal out of ether cuz it was like, whoa, look, nas actually still has some skills--who would have known given that all he's done since Illmatic has been some Nastrodomus-type fake-jiggy bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BABABOOEY
ok JonesJrMayweath , you make some good points and i guess it really is just oppinion, I guess sometimes i confuse favourite rapper with greatest rapper and maybeee 1 album is not enough to put someone in the top 5 i can admit.
My view on the 2nd album of biggie is that it was pretty good, had 10 crack commandments, kick in the door, and sky is the limit, but it was not a classic. Still though he gets alot of credit from me because not many people can make a timeless album like "ready to die ", something you can listen to forever and ever. I know all he did talk about was "bitches and clothes" as you put it , but his puns and punchlines were so good, to me it didnt matter what he was talking about , "I Get more butts than ash trays" is one line that comes to mind :)
top 5 "greatest" is so hard, because its hard to slip into the thinking thinking "older is better" , i mean big Daddy kane was massive to the point he is and still was an icon, but lyrically people like Big L and BIG take him apart imo, so the problem is defining what make a rapper "great" :)
Just for reference my top 5 favourite rappers in no order are
Big L
Chino XL
Pharoah Monch
Common
Notorious BIG