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Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Patricio Manuel, a super featherweight fighting out of Los Angeles won a unanimous decision in December at Fantasy Springs Resort Casino in what was billed as the first pro bout in the U.S. involving a transgender man. :confused::o:o
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
so that’s someone born a woman who turned and fought as a man? I guess if that’s what they want to do, fine, just match them light. If it’s the other way around, hell no, would be my stance. As with everything involving the issue though, it’s more of a talking point and source of faux outrage than it is anything which will ever have much to do with anything. A tomato can who has been knocked out 18 times in the last three years shouldn’t be allowed to fight a standout prospect, but that’s just boxing.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
So the question is should one person be allowed to do the same things as another person. ....Yes
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
More great work from the university of Ron Swanson.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
"Women of boxing discuss competing with transgender females"
http://proboxinginsider.com/women-of...ender-females/
Here's the opinion of some of those who actually have to step into the ring with transgender females. Some bravely go with the flow and don't seem to mind... but others emphatically say "no".
I agree with the latter.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
Women in Athletics are currently saying the same thing.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Let the WBA have a world silver interim WBA Trannies and Shemale Title.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
Ignorance rears its ugly head with the usual suspects chiming in. No hey..... let's allow objections to men beating up on women to be called "sexist." It remains the easy "go to" answer to everything. As usual, it's easier to applaud the blurred lines of society than to make a stand, no matter how unpopular. I made a clear distinction saying if a trans woman who becomes a man wants to fight men.... let her be. The other way around, IMO, and in the opinion of most people with a good set of values "assigned at birth", is wrong.
If we want to play the all high and mighty with this, why not just drop all pretenses and just let women and men fight each other in the ring. Heaven knows we need more examples of men beating up on women in society. No @powerpuncher ..... let's let the Ron's and the Beanzs and the Fensters of the world continue carrying their torch. As I've said time and again, it's much easier to adopt the "everything's ok" attitude and criticize others for taking a stance. Blurred lines? No problem. Who cares that we've already had instances of women getting severely injured in a ring or octagon by a trans male/female. Never mind the opinion of the very fighters themselves, whose opinions I already posted in a link above. No..... all that matters is that we're cool with everything.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Hmm. I'm staying out of this one.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.
“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."
Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @marymcgee2586.
“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”
Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest
“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.
Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.
If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”
Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.
“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”
Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @RealDealSerrano.
“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”
Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.
“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”
I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.
Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
When is gender indistinguishable at birth? I’ve never heard of such a thing, let alone one in sixty?
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
When is gender indistinguishable at birth? I’ve never heard of such a thing, let alone one in sixty?
It's from the URS curriculum. (Univ. of Ron Swanson)
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Lets ask Bearing for his thoughts on Transgender people playing sports
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnNzMJ1M0-A
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Batman, how DARE you post such rubbish??
Especially when the narrator has the unmitigated GALL to tick off the physiological differences between the male and female bodies.
What were you THINKING??
Yeah..... exactly. ;D ;) ;) :cool:
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.
“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."
Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @
marymcgee2586.
“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”
Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest
“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.
Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.
If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”
Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.
“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”
Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @
RealDealSerrano.
“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”
Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.
“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”
I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.
Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.
But that’s not fair because you only took quotes from people who are sexist 😂
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
I'm just surprised no one is going on about how this was put on by Fishnets ;D.
Really though, is there agreement that a male transitioning to female with hormones, surgery etc still affords that former male individual advantages in a contact sport? But this specifically is a female transitioning to compete against men and that appears to be excepted. Why twist it to tear down a case that no one is making ;D. Do the same thought and physical advantages not hold for the 0-5 male opponent?
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
Don't be surprised, he never could grasp the monumental difference between transgender and homosexuality or little boys wearing dresses and makeup to perform song and dance.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
Don't be surprised, he never could grasp the monumental difference between transgender and homosexuality or little boys wearing dresses and makeup to perform song and dance.
Just 'cause you've had your argument come crashing down in flames like the Hindenburg, don't take it out on anyone else. Man up and admit you're on the wrong side of the tracks.
Or not. ;) :cool:
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
No Beanz... :rolleyes: ...you hadn't posted. You just "thanked" Swanson for his diametrically opposed view where he rushed to pull the "sexist" fire alarm handle without bothering to think about what is being said.
No wonder Miles rightly accuses you of backing off of statements you've clearly made or positions you've made distinctively clear.
Like I told Fenny..... man up to what you say and do, and everyone will respect you all the more for it.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Ive been giving this some thought , at least LOW BLOWS could be made legal ;)
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.
What should be considered and is ignored in this is that no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.
What should be considered and is ignored in this is that
no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.
Right. And if a woman champion refuses to fight a mandatory who happens to be a transgender, she would technically be ducking, and could be stripped.
But you continue your fantasy world scenarios and instructing us with your wisdom. ;)
BTW, your quote ".... or more correctly another woman...."
Is that from that University of Swanson curriculum you're famous for?
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.
What should be considered and is ignored in this is that
no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.
Right. And if a woman champion refuses to fight a mandatory who happens to be a transgender, she would technically be ducking, and could be stripped.
But you continue your fantasy world scenarios and instructing us with your wisdom. ;)
BTW, your quote
".... or more correctly another woman...."
Is that from that University of Swanson curriculum you're famous for?
You called a transgender woman a man. You’re a disgusting bully. Next time you read about a teenager that felt isolated and killed themselves know that you are the reason. More than half transgender males try to kill themselves at some point. You, you did that with your morals. So moral
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.
A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.
'Nough said.
In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.
I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.
Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.
So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.
He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.
What should be considered and is ignored in this is that
no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.
Right. And if a woman champion refuses to fight a mandatory who happens to be a transgender, she would technically be ducking, and could be stripped.
But you continue your fantasy world scenarios and instructing us with your wisdom. ;)
BTW, your quote
".... or more correctly another woman...."
Is that from that University of Swanson curriculum you're famous for?
You called a transgender woman a man. You’re a disgusting bully. Next time you read about a teenager that felt isolated and killed themselves know that you are the reason. More than half transgender males try to kill themselves at some point. You, you did that with your morals. So moral
wtf!
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Everyone sing along with me..... in a football terrace tune.....
"Swansons got a vag hole, Swansons got a vag hole, la la la la, la la la la"
"Swansons got a.....
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
No Beanz... :rolleyes: ...you hadn't posted. You just "thanked" Swanson for his diametrically opposed view where he rushed to pull the "sexist" fire alarm handle without bothering to think about what is being said.
No wonder Miles rightly accuses you of backing off of statements you've clearly made or positions you've made distinctively clear.
Like I told Fenny..... man up to what you say and do, and everyone will respect you all the more for it.
To be honest if I could have given him a high five, shook his hand or bought him a pint, I would have. You are not really helping yourself shrug off the sexist label by telling people to man up either. I don't know where your hostility is coming from, but the opening post was about a transgender man, so Spicoli was bang on with his description of people wanting to manufacture an argument where there is not one. I am assuming like me you are way too old to box anymore, so what exactly is the problem? Like Ron says if a female boxer does not want to fight a transgender women then I would be quite surprised if they were mandated to do so against their wishes. Every boxer makes this choice, whoever they fight.
You are basically arguing for removing the choice of other people. You brought me into the thread and now you are moaning about me expressing/not expressing my opinion it seems? At this point I have no idea what the fuck you are actually on about. You certainly are not taking the brave stand you think you are. The forum today on International Women's Day could not be any more hostile to women if it tried. I work with female boxers, ring card girls etc and they all have a lot more bottle and frankly 'balls' then a lot of the posturing alpha males strutting their stuff here. It is 2019 for crying out loud. In gyms all over the world, amateur and pro shows, girls and women are dedicating themselves to the noble art with just as much heart and soul as the men and boys, and yet here they are still seen as a novelty.
I haven't backed off anything I have said, whatever Miles may claim. The fact that Ron, who works with fighters every day, is able to make a reasoned and sensible, nuanced series of points without resorting to the bloody neanderthal conservative black and white argument that often passes for debate here is refreshing.
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
It's not just twisting it to tear down a case nobody is making. (Brilliantly put) It is including and dragging in posters who haven't even posted in the thread and inventing positions and arguments for them, never made.
No Beanz... :rolleyes: ...you hadn't posted. You just "thanked" Swanson for his diametrically opposed view where he rushed to pull the "sexist" fire alarm handle without bothering to think about what is being said.
No wonder Miles rightly accuses you of backing off of statements you've clearly made or positions you've made distinctively clear.
Like I told Fenny..... man up to what you say and do, and everyone will respect you all the more for it.
To be honest if I could have given him a high five, shook his hand or bought him a pint, I would have. You are not really helping yourself shrug off the sexist label by telling people to man up either. I don't know where your hostility is coming from, but the opening post was about a transgender man, so Spicoli was bang on with his description of people wanting to manufacture an argument where there is not one. I am assuming like me you are way too old to box anymore, so what exactly is the problem? Like Ron says if a female boxer does not want to fight a transgender women then I would be quite surprised if they were mandated to do so against their wishes. Every boxer makes this choice, whoever they fight.
You are basically arguing for removing the choice of other people. You brought me into the thread and now you are moaning about me expressing/not expressing my opinion it seems? At this point I have no idea what the fuck you are actually on about. You certainly are not taking the brave stand you think you are. The forum today on International Women's Day could not be any more hostile to women if it tried. I work with female boxers, ring card girls etc and they all have a lot more bottle and frankly 'balls' then a lot of the posturing alpha males strutting their stuff here. It is 2019 for crying out loud. In gyms all over the world, amateur and pro shows, girls and women are dedicating themselves to the noble art with just as much heart and soul as the men and boys, and yet here they are still seen as a novelty.
I haven't backed off anything I have said, whatever Miles may claim. The fact that Ron, who works with fighters every day, is able to make a reasoned and sensible, nuanced series of points without resorting to the bloody neanderthal conservative black and white argument that often passes for debate here is refreshing.
I "brought" you into the thread?? Did I request that you thank Swanson for his post? You brought yourself into the thread. But again, that is symptomatic of exactly why it is that you somehow manage to fight with just everyone else in the forum. You seem to not be happy unless you're being confrontational.
I'm not "helping myself shrug off the sexist label"? Ok, so you are pretentious on top of being confrontational. Listen, if all I have to worry about is the likes of a Ron Swanson and you calling me sexist, I think I'll be able to sleep at night. :rolleyes: This is EXACTLY what people like Miles rake you over the coals for, and precisely the reason you are impossible to have a decent argument with.
Kindly spare me your resume (and Swanson's) about working with fighters and women. I don't pour out my life here on the forum for all to see, but I'll just leave it as saying that I've got my own personal experiences. Sexist is the least of things I am. You want to call me a bully? Go right ahead. Angry? Sure.... only when people like you and your Batman-Robin partner Fenster jump at anything I say because it doesn't fit your own personal preferences. Opinionated? Not nearly as much as you, I'm afraid. But sexist? What a goddamn joke. Wasn't all that long ago you and half the forum turned a blind eye to a veteran poster who used to routinely refer to women as whores, sluts, and bitches. Double standards, anyone?
Once again, and quit ignoring stuff that doesn't fit your narrative, what of the opinions of the women boxers I've quoted and posted on this thread? Those mean more to me and most other people on here than any amount of flowery gibberish you could possible muster.
Hilarious how you could take someone like Ron, known for his abrasiveness and bluntness, and talk about "reasoned, sensible, and nuanced points." You are incapable of seeing truth if truth itself were to come up to your angry mug and slap you across the face.
Once again, in case you missed the memo:
1. I did NOT bring you into the thread. You brought yourself in by thanking Swanson on his knee-jerk reaction, incorrect, and presumptuous post.
2. Just because you pour your own life's details into the forum, does not give you a monopoly on any life experiences nor does it give you the knowledge or license to judge others.
3. Women left here because of racist, sexist, thuggish dumbasses like VD. But continue assigning blame to everyone you don't necessarily agree with.
4. It's the opinion of the women in the sport that counts. In that regard, your opinion and those of Swanson aren't worth spit. What about this don't you understand??
5. Nobody here..... NOBODY is saying anything against female boxers. That is just you twisting the argument with blatant lies to suit your agenda.
Now, I've purposely avoided arguing with you because I do not wish for yet another war where the likes of you is involved. All that accomplishes is having your pet bouncer come running over to join the fray.
You have a perfect right to your opinions.... but so do I. So let's just back off because I'm going to let you bully me from behind your keyboard like you like to do with so many others.
Goddamn, it's no wonder Miles hates your fucking guts.
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.
“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."
Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @
marymcgee2586.
“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”
Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest
“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.
Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.
If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”
Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.
“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”
Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @
RealDealSerrano.
“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”
Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.
“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”
I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.
Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.
Read these AGAIN, Beanz. Tell me once again why your presumptions and Ron's "reasoned, sensible and nuanced points" are worth a hill of beans when stacked up against the opinions of women who actually have to step into the ring with transgender boxers. THEN... get back to me. In the meantime, keep your ignorant rants to yourself.
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.
“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."
Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @
marymcgee2586.
“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”
Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest
“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.
Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.
If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”
Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.
“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”
Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @
RealDealSerrano.
“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”
Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.
“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”
I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.
Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.
Read these AGAIN, Beanz. Tell me once again why your presumptions and Ron's "reasoned, sensible and nuanced points" are worth a hill of beans when stacked up against the opinions of women who actually have to step into the ring with transgender boxers. THEN... get back to me. In the meantime, keep your ignorant rants to yourself.
You’re still making a fake argument to excuse trying to steal someone’s rights. Notice not one of those quotes is about a woman being forced to fight a transgender woman. Find one of those and you will have a point. As is all you have is your bigotry. No boxer is forced to fight anyone, ever. But go back to your big book of bigotry for your morals. Steal people’s rights and claim morality.
-
Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.
“Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."
Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @
marymcgee2586.
“It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”
Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest
“I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.
Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.
If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”
Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.
“I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”
Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @
RealDealSerrano.
“I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”
Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.
“I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”
I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.
Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.
Read these AGAIN, Beanz. Tell me once again why your presumptions and Ron's "reasoned, sensible and nuanced points" are worth a hill of beans when stacked up against the opinions of women who actually have to step into the ring with transgender boxers. THEN... get back to me. In the meantime, keep your ignorant rants to yourself.
You’re still making a fake argument to excuse trying to steal someone’s rights. Notice not one of those quotes is about a woman being forced to fight a transgender woman. Find one of those and you will have a point. As is all you have is your bigotry. No boxer is forced to fight anyone, ever. But go back to your big book of bigotry for your morals. Steal people’s rights and claim morality.
Did you bother to read any of the quotes? Or like Beanz are you just regurgitating your same old tired argument and attempting to speak for others.... others who happen to be in the sport.
Maybe it's your reading comprehension that needs polishing.
They're being asked if they agree with transgenders in women's boxing, and they mostly say "no."
If you want to split hairs and talk about people not being forced to fight anyone..... go ahead. Common sense rarely penetrates thick skulls.
I'll say this again, in English. Let me know if anything is unclear.
No.... no woman boxer would be forced to fight a transgender. But if it's a mandatory... and it's for a championship... they could be stripped. Would that be fair? Or are you going to vomit the same old tired lines?
If caring about women's safety in boxing is "bigotry", then you'd better go back to grade school and bone up on your definitions. You seem to have a problem with that.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Holy hell I'd kill for a Mayweather v Manny II thread right now ;D:-X.
But I'd be interested to see how the question was put to these boxers who are quoted. If its in relation to the actual individual in the thread topic then it's false from jump. A transitioned -woman- is now fighting -men-...not the other way around. No backlash for a born man hitting a born woman though eh. Can anyone show me one single instance of a trans man in a sanctioned boxing match vs a woman???. And don't anyone make an Anne Wolfe joke :D. It's an empty boogeyman. Just one as this is 'boxing talk'. And save all that amateur mma or muey Thai stuff.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Using "nuanced" is a sure sign to me at least that the user is a _______________ Fill n the blank. :mad:
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Holy hell I'd kill for a Mayweather v Manny II thread right now ;D:-X.
But I'd be interested to see how the question was put to these boxers who are quoted. If its in relation to the actual individual in the thread topic then it's false from jump. A transitioned -woman- is now fighting -men-...not the other way around. No backlash for a born man hitting a born woman though eh. Can anyone show me one single instance of a trans man in a sanctioned boxing match vs a woman???. And don't anyone make an Anne Wolfe joke :D. It's an empty boogeyman. Just one as this is 'boxing talk'. And save all that amateur mma or muey Thai stuff.
Appreciate the attempt at mediation, Spicoli. Always the level head coming in to defuse the bomb.
However, this is pretty clear cut here. Here's the quote on the question posed:
"We asked some of the top female boxers in the sport for their thoughts on the situation, and if they would feel comfortable stepping into the ring with a woman who was previously a man."
The responses you may have already read.
This isn't some philosophical argument where the question itself might be convoluted and subject to interpretation. This is pretty straightforward. Women boxers/fighters were asked whether would feel comfortable stepping into a ring with a women who was previously a man. Black-white. No gray areas here. This was a yes or no question, and most of them answered pretty clearly.
Now..... Beanz may have a hard-on for everything transgender related. I don't know.... maybe a personal bad experience or something. We'll never know.
But knee-jerk reactions from the peanut gallery, ignorantly throwing around accusations of "sexist" (Swanson) without bothering to read fully into the intent of the targeted comment is just plain foolish.
No way to sugarcoat it, or dance around it.
The long and short of it:
You've got this clique here who will leap "Pavlovian style" on any transgender red meat that gets thrown on the floor. Shoot first... ask questions later. If you erred in your initial reaction..... f*ck it. They had it coming anyway.
Hardly an adult way to conduct a conversation or an argument.
So kudos for attempting to bring down the temperature.... but some things around here are just a bit TOO predictable. These knee-jerk reactions being one of them.
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Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?
Well Tito I appreciate that but in fairness are you not doing the exact same thing with knee jerk and scenarios that do not exist? Not looking to monitor the playground with what I wrote, you're all adults, good heads and will work it out, no worries. But I'm genuinely interested in that the quotes sighted are geared towards a reaction or narrative that isn't applicable in this specific case. The 'situation' is a former woman fighting a man. The quoted boxers don't even recognize that scenario or automatically assume its reversed.