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Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Apparently, the idea of reparations for slavery is an old idea that has been rekindled as of late.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48665802
"Slavery reparations hearing ignites fiery debate in Congress"
While most may know what all this reparations talk is about, I'll post a neat, concise description from Wikipedia.....
"Reparations for slavery is the idea that some form of compensatory payment needs to be made to the descendants of Africans trafficked to and enslaved in the Americas as part of the Atlantic slave trade. The most notable demands for reparations have been made in the United Kingdom and in the United States. The American, including the Caribbean, and also the African governments, from which the countries where they were taken, have been said to be owed these reparations."
So what say you about this? Dying to hear Denilson's twisted take on this subject, but in the meantime, here's my own two cents.
I'm firmly AGAINST it.
Instead of looking toward the past, and continuing to rehash old history, no matter how bad it was..... society should be looking at the present and the future. Fix things NOW. Make hate groups illegal (KKK, Skinheads, Neo-Nazis), 1st Amendment "skirt hiding" be damned. We all know what our founding fathers meant. And it wasn't that we're free to hate on others because of skin color or the like. It would take someone with major BALLS to go up against that one, but hey..... if Trump was elected, anything's possible.
Forget about tearing down statues and monuments to the nation's past. The past is the past and it's part of the nation's history. Trying to erase it is wrong and dangerous. Instead, use it to keep from making the same terrible mistakes.
Quotas for employment, like EEO has clumsily tried to do, does little but fuel people's anger and resentment. There must be other ways to discourage discrimination due to race or gender (real gender, not imagined ones). We've sent men to the moon (sorry Alpha wherever you are)...... I'm sure we can figure it out. This is the 21st century, FFS. We seem to be going backwards as a society while at the same time inventing more and more technological shit.
Get people of power in government who truly care about the disparity between races in wealth, housing, healthcare, educational opportunities, etc. Not talking heads who say what some people want to hear until they get elected and then get amnesia. Create groups of working people (committees if you will) to work hard at breaking down these disparities. Yes, some people choose to have 10 children and live off the government. Don't punish the whole race because of those. Weed the riff-raff out and deal with them accordingly.
Obama was the first black President and he failed miserably in doing many of these very things. If anything, racial tensions worsened under his watch. Trump is anything but unifying. Let's get somebody up there who's worth a damn.
No quotas..... don't force X percentage of blacks or women to work anywhere. That's hollow and artificial. But at the same time, crack down and protect those worthy enough to get the top jobs who get shunned for no good reason. Again, we're smart enough. We can do it.
BUT....... enough with the paying out reparations to slave descendants. That is the most asinine idea I've ever heard. What on Earth is this going to resolve?? Not an absolute damn thing.
All we're doing is dredging up the past and stirring the shit until it smells real bad. Look forward, not backward.
So basically I'm AGAINST this idea 100%.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Me too. 100% against it. Nobody in the here and now is responsible for the actions of others centuries ago. Who would pay and for what? People need to take responsibility for themselves in the here and now. Things like this and feminism are based on a manufactured resentment.
I will double down and say that no group needs special treatment be it women, blacks, whites, gays, Muslims or whatever and that you rise and fall on your own merits and abilities.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Well, that was their decision and it would be interesting to see how they handled/managed that. Difference between the two being that WWII was in the 1940's, whereas slavery was way the hell before that. Slavery was also a lot more widespread..... a practice considered normal at that time and carried out by many white societies over a very much wider area. Attempting to pay reparations for slavery is opening a disastrous can of worms that would have no end. All it would accomplish is create more resentment and it would be impossible to handle. And again... by continuing to dredge up and wallow in the past, we're basically dooming any efforts to deal with the present and the future. I'm surprised this is even being debated and considered by Congress.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
The Reparations Agreement between Israel and the Federal Republic of Germany was signed on September 10, 1952, and entered in force on March 27, 1953....WW2 ended in 1945.
The African slave trade was ended by America in 1808 and slavery as a practice ended in America 1865. Also worth noting that Native Americans and free Blacks also held slaves so would their ancestors also pay these reparations? Also what of people whose ancestors never held slaves OR Blacks who came to the United States freely would they receive reparations? What of mixed race people? Would we see a return of the 1 drop rule? I for one wouldn't see such a turn of events as positive...it would be divisive and wrongheaded.
So I'm going to go with NO on reparations. Not because slavery isn't wrong, it IS wrong and it's the original sin of America (among many other nations) and worldwide there are more slaves today than ever before and something should be done about that. But to relitigate the past over 150 after the War Between The States? That will reopen old wounds which won't be positive for anyone AND it would class a group of American citizens as permanent victims. History is often brutal and certain things nations end up lamenting....but this reparations nonsense is typical Democrat identity politics to rile up a base of voters they fear losing hold of which is exactly why it's being brought up by the Democrats, it's the ultimate pandering and it is frankly quite insulting.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
Anyone can? Poor way to begin this argument. You are wrong by A degree that makes this toohard to argue.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Give us money because hundreds of years ago dead people were slaves? Hilarious.
Who actually foots the bill and how much do they want?
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Well, I am part black African and I have no personal angst about slavery (not saying it's not evil, but nobody in my family history was ever a slave). In fact, I suspect that some of my ancestors sold subjugated and weaker people to be slaves via Zanzibar.
Understandably, Caribbean people or black people in other countries whose ancestors were enslaved get angry about it. There isn't really a burning sense of injustice amongst Africans from Africa.
Reparations is difficult, there isn't a right answer. People have been impoverished and given little chance of success for generations, and it's not completely their fault. However, white people - and Arabs and Africans - around nowadays arent the ones who enslaved anybody.
Where would the money come from, who would pay it, and who would get it? Would you have to prove your ancestors were slaves? What if it was only one great great grandparent? Would they only get a percentage? What if one ancestor was a slave and one was the owner (which happened a lot)? Would you have to pay yourself?
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
Well, I am part black African and I have no personal angst about slavery (not saying it's not evil, but nobody in my family history was ever a slave). In fact, I suspect that some of my ancestors sold subjugated and weaker people to be slaves via Zanzibar.
Understandably, Caribbean people or black people in other countries whose ancestors were enslaved get angry about it. There isn't really a burning sense of injustice amongst Africans from Africa.
Reparations is difficult, there isn't a right answer. People have been impoverished and given little chance of success for generations, and it's not completely their fault. However, white people - and Arabs and Africans - around nowadays arent the ones who enslaved anybody.
Where would the money come from, who would pay it, and who would get it? Would you have to prove your ancestors were slaves? What if it was only one great great grandparent? Would they only get a percentage? What if one ancestor was a slave and one was the owner (which happened a lot)? Would you have to pay yourself?
Thanks for weighing in and thanks for your honest vote.
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare.... which is why I believe in putting SOOOO much more weight into efforts to fix whatever inequalities exist today. That is so much easier to manage and put your hands around than going back to 200 years ago and attempt to right a wrong which in the end will probably polarize the races even more. Resentment is sure to bubble up on both sides of the racial divide.
Thanks again for putting your opinion out there on a serious, real, and current issue.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Not sure of the practicality or realistic chance of this not ending in a gigantic clusterfeck. Honestly I don't know a single adult man or woman who doesn't know this is primarily a topic geared towards politics rather than some rising wave to seek 'justice' in any way. We as a whole would do better to use such a push to educate what humanity is capable of at it's worst but I believe we're moving more towards half thought out quick fixes..reparations..and are denying that our past..toppling historical statues and monuments into dark warehouses..made us what we are, in fact made us better today. No on reparations for me, though I have to say also that 1865 is really not that long ago. We can all trace our roots over generations be it a slave who was held on a Plantation that still stands today or some chucklehead on a boxing forum :) whos distant relatives fought both for the Confederacy and the Union army. We don't get do overs. Learn from history, respect and own it in all of it's pros and cons, and move forward.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
Anyone can? Poor way to begin this argument. You are wrong by A degree that makes this too hard to argue.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
If reparations WERE to be approved, I'd then vote for every single slave descendant to get paid except for Denilson.
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Re: Reparations...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
Anyone can? Poor way to begin this argument. You are wrong by A degree that makes this too hard to argue.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
So you're wanting a rematch of the War between The States? You think that'll be positive? Because it seems like that's what you're wanting.
If reparations ever occur (and they won't on account of it's Democrat pandering because they're deathly afraid of being abandoned by a certain demographic) I'll be paying EXACTLY $0.00
.....it's a hill on which I will die
I would rather burn my money, my home, and all possessions and salt the Earth on which I have planted so that nothing ever grows on it again than have it pay for sins I never committed.
Understand the gravity of that @Master?
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
No need for a rematch.
Reparation has been done before, it could be done for this situation. I do not know the specific details how it happens because I have no real interest but if the will is there then I am sure it can be worked out.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
No need for a rematch.
Reparation has been done before, it could be done for this situation. I do not know the specific details how it happens because I have no real interest but if the will is there then I am sure it can be worked out.
Well you don't comprehend the politics of the situation very well then. I can tell you that much.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
You're completely correct Kabong, but Master wasnt unreasonable either. The whole exchange just goes to show why this idea is so unreasonable. It can never work. Never has or will, its not a good concept.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
You're completely correct Kabong, but Master wasnt unreasonable either. The whole exchange just goes to show why this idea is so unreasonable. It can never work. Never has or will, its not a good concept.
The unreasonable part is it's been 154 years since slavery has ended and this is being brought up now, WHY? I know we're all being told racism is worse than ever and our President is somehow this huge racist, but that doesn't play to the facts of what the President has accomplished for the Black community....the truth of the matter is that for the first time in a long time Black voters are seeing their political power not as a monolith, but as a dynamic group that demands and deserves results and the Democrats can't have that.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
You're completely correct Kabong, but Master wasnt unreasonable either. The whole exchange just goes to show why this idea is so unreasonable. It can never work. Never has or will, its not a good concept.
The unreasonable part is it's been 154 years since slavery has ended and this is being brought up now, WHY? I know we're all being told racism is worse than ever and our President is somehow this huge racist, but that doesn't play to the facts of what the President has accomplished for the Black community....the truth of the matter is that for the first time in a long time Black voters are seeing their political power not as a monolith, but as a dynamic group that demands and deserves results and the Democrats can't have that.
Didnt you just answer the question though? Im actually asking because i dont know and it hurts my eyes to read much because im shitfaced.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
I think you all should pay reparations ........ to me.
That is because I am great, and you all are crazy fools who should shut yo jibber jabber.
That is all. :allhail:
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
So the general gist is "slave reparations" is a piss take.
How about these reparations - The government has quietly ruled out compensating black African veterans of the second world war who were paid a third as much as their white counterparts. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-get-uk-payout
Many people are obviously outraged, claiming it's yet another example of the evil racist UK, we should take down the statues, do away with the war memorials, whilst others say enough of this "race baiting," how far do we go back searching for wrongdoings.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
If I may weigh in on that..... (may I?) ;D
I would side with the veterans on this one. It's a more measurable issue. It's fairly recent in comparison to slavery. It was a clear injustice with dollars and cents (or pounds) attached.
The fact that the government says it's too much trouble to go back and do the necessary investigations does not hold water. Frankly it's B.S.
At least that's MY opinion. It's what divides opinion between people. But in this case it was a clear wrong that should be righted.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
If I may weigh in on that..... (may I?) ;D
I would side with the veterans on this one. It's a more measurable issue. It's fairly recent in comparison to slavery. It was a clear injustice with dollars and cents (or pounds) attached.
The fact that the government says it's too much trouble to go back and do the necessary investigations does not hold water. Frankly it's B.S.
At least that's MY opinion. It's what divides opinion between people. But in this case it was a clear wrong that should be righted.
As long as denilson doesn’t get any I’ll throw in a couple bucks
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
victimhood is a pit you'll never escape because compassionate people keep pushing you back in
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Not sure of the practicality or realistic chance of this not ending in a gigantic clusterfeck. Honestly I don't know a single adult man or woman who doesn't know this is primarily a topic geared towards politics rather than some rising wave to seek 'justice' in any way. We as a whole would do better to use such a push to educate what humanity is capable of at it's worst but I believe we're moving more towards half thought out quick fixes..reparations..and are denying that our past..toppling historical statues and monuments into dark warehouses..made us what we are, in fact made us better today. No on reparations for me, though I have to say also that 1865 is really not that long ago. We can all trace our roots over generations be it a slave who was held on a Plantation that still stands today or some chucklehead on a boxing forum :) whos distant relatives fought both for the Confederacy and the Union army. We don't get do overs. Learn from history, respect and own it in all of it's pros and cons, and move forward.
1865 really isn't that long ago. I've been around now for fifty years and i can tell you people who haven't that fifty years feels about as long as the blink of an eye. And while the world seems to be constantly changing I can tell you that the beliefs and motivations of your fellow humans don't change very much over half a century so the difference between how for instance pre civil war Confederates and their progeny today feel about these kinds of issues isn't significantly different in a lot of cases. It's basicallt three blinks of an eye.
As far as the reparations issue goes, this is unfortunately more than some people read in a year but some of you will welcome the perspective. This is one of America's top black journalists who wrote the article that has kicked off the whole reparations issue. It's five years old now but has been resonating more and more over the years. I challenge you all to read it. :)
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Can you just tell us whether he wants reparations or not? Then we know whether to read it or not;)
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Can you just tell us whether he wants reparations or not? Then we know whether to read it or not;)
It's a little bit of the history of the whole issue. Doesn't matter what the guy who wrote it thinks although he testified to congress recently I'm sure I remember seeing. The history is educational though regardless of the reparations issue.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
This is one of America's top black journalists
Posts Ta-Nehisi Coates article HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Let me know when you guys are done sucking each other off
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Germany have given out reparations for the horror committed after the Second World War.
Uh, nope. Germany was demanded to pay massive reparations after the first world war, which had a lot to do with causing the second. Its so obvious why this is always a bad idea.
No, they gave reparation to the Jewish community. If they can do it, then anyone can.
Anyone can? Poor way to begin this argument. You are wrong by A degree that makes this too hard to argue.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
So you're wanting a rematch of the War between The States? You think that'll be positive? Because it seems like that's what you're wanting.
If reparations ever occur (and they won't on account of it's Democrat pandering because they're deathly afraid of being abandoned by a certain demographic) I'll be paying
EXACTLY $0.00
.....it's a hill on which I will die
I would rather burn my money, my home, and all possessions and salt the Earth on which I have planted so that nothing ever grows on it again than have it pay for sins I never committed.
Understand the gravity of that @
Master?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
This is one of America's top black journalists
Posts Ta-Nehisi Coates article HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Money,home and possessions were not more important to Jesus than justice.
You are a Christian and therefore your entire belief system is built around paying for sins you have not committed. Those of Adam and Eve. :rolleyes:
What are you so afraid of?
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Wow. The kind of quote Denilson would undoubtedly approve of.
So....... anyone who feels reparations are a bad idea is secretly harboring a deep fear that white supremacy will be found out as a real, deeply-ingrained issue rather than "the work of hotheaded demagogues"? Damn..... that's deep.
Well that's totally disappointing. Here I was thinking I was just emphasizing the importance of looking forward, instead of wallowing in the past and stirring up the shit so it will smell up the room all that much more.
Here I was thinking that such an idea would be next to impossible to implement..... and would only leave tattered emotions and serve to separate people even more..... as reparations distributions would surely be uneven and unjust in many cases.
Here I was thinking that paying black people today for the sins of yesterday would never change people's minds on either side of the equation. (In other words..... resentful blacks (see Denilson) will ALWAYS be resentful blacks..... and white supremacist will now be resentful white supremacists).
No. Anyone against this idea is really a closet white supremacist that believes white supremacy is an invention of hysterical leftists.
Precious.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Wow. The kind of quote Denilson would undoubtedly approve of.
So....... anyone who feels reparations are a bad idea is secretly harboring a deep fear that white supremacy will be found out as a real, deeply-ingrained issue rather than "the work of hotheaded demagogues"? Damn..... that's deep.
Well that's totally disappointing. Here I was thinking I was just emphasizing the importance of looking forward, instead of wallowing in the past and stirring up the shit so it will smell up the room all that much more.
Here I was thinking that such an idea would be next to impossible to implement..... and would only leave tattered emotions and serve to separate people even more..... as reparations distributions would surely be uneven and unjust in many cases.
Here I was thinking that paying black people today for the sins of yesterday would never change people's minds on either side of the equation. (In other words..... resentful blacks (see Denilson) will ALWAYS be resentful blacks..... and white supremacist will now be resentful white supremacists).
No. Anyone against this idea is really a closet white supremacist that believes white supremacy is an invention of hysterical leftists.
Precious.
It is a brilliant essay. A very accomplished piece of work. I would recommend reading it. Don't let Walrus and El Kabong's predictable fearful response put you off engaging with a difficult subject, in a nuanced way. Just because they will do anything in their power to reduce everything down to primary school level mudslinging, there is no reason to buy into their one dimensional world view.
Forget about slaves, forget about money, forget about anything from 100+ yrs ago and read it with an open mind and tell me that the essay is laughable?
They employ the same tactic when people talk about fascists as though it is all just a big game that they can stay on their high horse and snigger about.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Wow. The kind of quote Denilson would undoubtedly approve of.
So....... anyone who feels reparations are a bad idea is secretly harboring a deep fear that white supremacy will be found out as a real, deeply-ingrained issue rather than "the work of hotheaded demagogues"? Damn..... that's deep.
Well that's totally disappointing. Here I was thinking I was just emphasizing the importance of looking forward, instead of wallowing in the past and stirring up the shit so it will smell up the room all that much more.
Here I was thinking that such an idea would be next to impossible to implement..... and would only leave tattered emotions and serve to separate people even more..... as reparations distributions would surely be uneven and unjust in many cases.
Here I was thinking that paying black people today for the sins of yesterday would never change people's minds on either side of the equation. (In other words..... resentful blacks (see Denilson) will ALWAYS be resentful blacks..... and white supremacist will now be resentful white supremacists).
No. Anyone against this idea is really a closet white supremacist that believes white supremacy is an invention of hysterical leftists.
Precious.
It is a brilliant essay. A very accomplished piece of work. I would recommend reading it. Don't let Walrus and El Kabong's predictable fearful response put you off engaging with a difficult subject, in a nuanced way. Just because they will do anything in their power to reduce everything down to primary school level mudslinging, there is no reason to buy into their one dimensional world view.
Forget about slaves, forget about money, forget about anything from 100+ yrs ago and read it with an open mind and tell me that the essay is laughable?
They employ the same tactic when people talk about fascists as though it is all just a big game that they can stay on their high horse and snigger about.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/
yup real fearful, shaking with fear. I notice Big D Lars and The other racist who’s name I forget agreeing quite often
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
victimhood is a pit you'll never escape because compassionate people keep pushing you back in
That statement is a bit of a nothingburger and really is irrelevant to the subject of reparations. Taking control and fighting to right an injustice is not an example of a narcissist or someone with a victim mentality playing out a role. Empathy is not a weakness it the reason we as humans have evolved such complex social systems and got where we are as a human race. When people blame their parents for not doing well in life or the absence of a parent for their own narcissism, then yes of course people can be fooled into playing the part of an enabler or mirror for the victims own projections. When a person though is actually financially, emotionally, socially and politically actually held responsible for the sins a parent never even committed, in a very real sense it is hugely dishonest to pretend that they are just suffering from buying into a victim mentality.
When a society tries to bury the denial of justice as if it were a mere trifle, an insignificant side note, you end up with statements like yours. I do not know you personally, so i will assume it is something you are repeating, but it sounds like the words of someone trying to punish others for their own unaddressed issues.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
victimhood is a pit you'll never escape because compassionate people keep pushing you back in
That statement is a bit of a nothingburger and really is irrelevant to the subject of reparations. Taking control and fighting to right an injustice is not an example of a narcissist or someone with a victim mentality playing out a role. Empathy is not a weakness it the reason we as humans have evolved such complex social systems and got where we are as a human race. When people blame their parents for not doing well in life or the absence of a parent for their own narcissism, then yes of course people can be fooled into playing the part of an enabler or mirror for the victims own projections. When a person though is actually financially, emotionally, socially and politically actually held responsible for the sins a parent never even committed, in a very real sense it is hugely dishonest to pretend that they are just suffering from buying into a victim mentality.
When a society tries to bury the denial of justice as if it were a mere trifle, an insignificant side note, you end up with statements like yours. I do not know you personally, so i will assume it is something you are repeating, but it sounds like the words of someone trying to punish others for their own unaddressed issues.
Read beaners first sentence in his response and clip it for a working definition of exaggerated sense of purpose
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
"The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge—that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."
It is brilliantly insightful. Thanks Kirkland. People do not like difficult questions and would rather dismiss them, so I expect it would be beyond many to even contemplate the value of another perspective, let alone try and reexamine long held beliefs thru another lens. It is worth the effort, but it is an effort nonetheless, and so it is easier to just mock, roll the eyes and pretend that confronting difficult questions us in itself a vapid and stupid exercise.
Fuck that kind of entrenched privileged cowardice.
Wow. The kind of quote Denilson would undoubtedly approve of.
So....... anyone who feels reparations are a bad idea is secretly harboring a deep fear that white supremacy will be found out as a real, deeply-ingrained issue rather than "the work of hotheaded demagogues"? Damn..... that's deep.
Well that's totally disappointing. Here I was thinking I was just emphasizing the importance of looking forward, instead of wallowing in the past and stirring up the shit so it will smell up the room all that much more.
Here I was thinking that such an idea would be next to impossible to implement..... and would only leave tattered emotions and serve to separate people even more..... as reparations distributions would surely be uneven and unjust in many cases.
Here I was thinking that paying black people today for the sins of yesterday would never change people's minds on either side of the equation. (In other words..... resentful blacks (see Denilson) will ALWAYS be resentful blacks..... and white supremacist will now be resentful white supremacists).
No. Anyone against this idea is really a closet white supremacist that believes white supremacy is an invention of hysterical leftists.
Precious.
It is a brilliant essay. A very accomplished piece of work. I would recommend reading it. Don't let Walrus and El Kabong's predictable fearful response put you off engaging with a difficult subject, in a nuanced way. Just because they will do anything in their power to reduce everything down to primary school level mudslinging, there is no reason to buy into their one dimensional world view.
Forget about slaves, forget about money, forget about anything from 100+ yrs ago and read it with an open mind and tell me that the essay is laughable?
They employ the same tactic when people talk about fascists as though it is all just a big game that they can stay on their high horse and snigger about.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/
Haven't read the whole thing yet, as it's quite lengthy and I wanted to respond before I read it. Still.... I got the gist of it.
Yes, it is a good piece of writing. But allow me to express a few thoughts up front.
Please.... do not continue lumping me in with other people. Please understand this is an annoying (and denigrating) habit which basically insults the intelligence of the other person. Give me the credit I give others of making up our own minds without belonging to some sort of "cult."
I'm sure Lyle and Walrus have their own thoughts on the matter. We will agree on some points, and disagree on others. You and I have both been here long enough to know I'm very much an individual.
Number two... I do not need to read that essay to realize the very real nature of racism and its continuing persistence into today's society... particularly in certain areas of the Deep South.
Admittedly, the article does bring out specific facts that are horrifying and sad to read at the same time. Sad that humans could be that callow, unjust, and ignorant.
I'm fully aware that racial injustices, including lynchings, have occurred well into the 20th century. Racial injustices didn't end with the end of slavery. Nobody in their right minds would believe such a crock.
Frankly, upon reading articles such as this, it's small wonder people like Denilson exist. Except I think Denilson carries it to a ridiculous extreme, as also thinks any sane person who reads the rubbish he writes.
Having said all this, I stand by my opinion that the way to "right a wrong" can sometimes be misdirected. I personally much prefer to look forward and see how we can bring the hammer down on institutionalized racism once and for all.
I could write a damn book on all my thoughts on this subject, as I'm sure many of us could as well.
I've always said I would've been a militant black had I been born black in the 50's or 60's in the States. Racism to me is one of the most vile, disgusting, inexcusable traits a human being could have.
What are some of my "cures" for this?
First, understand that the so called "quotas" of the past (and present), where the government assigns numbers to the number of blacks and women you have to hire....... is a gigantic mental ball of crap spawned by some lazy legislators who were late for a lunch date and needed to give the impression that they really gave a shit. It has NEVER worked.
Nothing artificial works or lasts.
But instead of trying to wrestle this "reparations monster" into submission and make everybody happy (it'll never happen), I'd favor using the inglorious, shameful racial past of the U.S. to do everything in our power to ensure that organizations get punished for discrimination, and rewarded for the lack thereof.
Granted, exact measures are a bit above my pay grade..... so before someone comes charging in here demanding to know how exactly I'd fix it....... I'll respond that if I had the answer, I wouldn't be sitting here putting it on Saddo's.
Measure number one: Abolish, criminalize the existence of ALL hate groups. KKK, White Supremacists, Aryan Nation, Skinheads, Neo-Nazis, etc. "OH..... but our 1st Amendment rights!" FUCK THAT..... with a capital "FUCK". The founding fathers did not intend for free speech to include "Hey Billy Bob..... let's go lynch so-and-so because he's black and we're better than him. We hate him." To claim as such, is to hide behind a document written eons ago and not using your gray matter between the ears to discern between what's right and what's wrong. If freedom of speech is the total blanket I say it is..... then I should be able to shout "Bomb!" at airports, and freely talk about how I'm planning on killing Donald Trump. Let's call a spade a spade and quit playing pretend. There's is NO fucking excuse for hate groups.
Hate crimes? I'm all for it. Does it need tweaking? Sure. But as I've said countless times....... Joe kills Jack because he was taking his wallet and Jack resisted..... he might get a 30-year sentence or life. Joe kills Jack just because Jack is black and was minding his own business? Joe gets the death penalty. TWICE. Nobody has to agree with me on this. It's my own thought. And by the way, Beanz....... you may have noticed that Lyle and I have never seen eye to eye on this. Doesn't mean we are disrespectful to each other or that we don't agree on anything.
Civil War statues and memorials? I'd leave them be. Use them to educate kids on the horrors of the nation's past. It's history. You don't erase history. You use it to correct past mistakes.
I also stand by my opinion that paying blacks reparations will NOT do anything toward lessening racial tensions now or in the future.
White Joe pays taxes toward reparations to black Jack. Now Joe says........ "There. I paid you. Now we're even. Now I can continue being the same racist asshole I've always been, and you can't say a damn thing about it because you've been paid." You do not pay for the mistakes of the past by assigning a dollar sign to it and off you go.
More solutions. The government should intervene in any state of the union that does not conform to integration policies and persists in living in the past. The government should come down HARD on institutionalized racism. We don't need rocket scientists to know what is institutionalized racism and what isn't.
I'll weigh in some more after I've read the article.
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Re: Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Money,home and possessions were not more important to Jesus than justice.
You are a Christian and therefore your entire belief system is built around paying for sins you have not committed. Those of Adam and Eve. :rolleyes:
What are you so afraid of?
Reparations are not justice it's political pandering but I get that you're too dense to understand that. Remember who is promising these things and what they've accomplished.
I ADORE how you of all people lecture me on Jesus. You despise the religion you've said as much of your time practicing it. So don't come to me and tell me what is good and true and fair because you haven't the slightest idea.
You don't get to dictate to me who I am or what I believe.
Afraid? No, not afraid. I'm irked that 1. People are dumb enough to believe it would ever happen and 2. That people are dumb enough to think reparations would accomplish anything but further dividing the nation I live in and love.
Let's play it through let's say Reparations happen....THEN WHAT?