Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
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Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
chris6878
Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?
How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?
I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.
You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.
Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?
To add to that list many sparring partners who have sparred both men also pick Floyd to win.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
Pacquiao doesn't use a swarmer style like Maidana, which I think is what caused Mayweather much of the trouble. I think Floyd is getting older, so that plays a part too, but since Pacquiao won't be shoving Mayweather into the corner and swinging punches from high and low, I think Mayweather will have the opportunity to use more of his outside boxing skills which I think he prefers at this point.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
chris6878
Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?
How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?
I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.
You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.
That would be a valid argument if Floyd had just out muscled JMM, the difference in boxing ability was clear to see.
The argument is not that Floyd's win over JMM was great, it's about their respective styles and what they tell us regarding pac.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
Pacman has no chance of beating floyd. People are getting carried away because of the maidana fights but maidana is so awkward to fight it's hard to look good against him.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
i gree pac has a better chance now than hhas had a certain points but the pac that beat cotto, hatton, margarito was awesome, i think at that time it would have been a difficult one to pic
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
If they fought now it would be a very cautious affair I think. It looks like the day's of Floyd ever coming close to knocking someone out are over and I think the same can be said of Pacman who would of KO'd Tim Bradley at his peak.. like many people have said lets see what happens in Pac's next fight to see where he stands in the boxing world today.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
Pac is worse now and past his impressive peak years ago when he was storming through the division.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
I disagree...but its worth considering if PacMan's decline has been exaggerated. After stopping ODLH, Hatton, and Cotto, he hasn't seen a KO, other than his own.
But a lot of his opponents simply did not come to fight. Clottey instead showed-off his (admittedly remarkable) ability to cover his entire upper body with his arms, and stay that way for an entire fight. Mosely ran...except for between rounds. Then he hugged, kissed and whispered sweet nothings. I exaggerate, but seriously, the guy kept trying to touch gloves and make various sportsmanlike gestures of good will. He was not there to fight.
Algieri was there to survive and, to a large degree, so was Bradley. It's hard to KO guys who don't throw punches. Only Rios and Margarito do not fit this paradigm. But Margarito was pretty beaten up. I forget what happened with Rios but iirc the fight was not competitive.
This brings us along to JMM, who obviously came to fight...albeit via counterpunching. But lost in the brutal KO-ending is the fact that Marquez's face was almost falling off at the time. He was bloodied, disfigured, and having a hard time breathing. I don't know how much longer he could've went on had he not delivered that perfectly timed uppercut.
PBF will come to fight. Not brawl, obviously. Nor will he stand straight up like ODLH...or come straight forward like Hatton. He will fight carefully and with precision like, well, JMM...except with superior defense and frankly superior all-around skill. That makes him the favorite of course, especially if we're using the last JMM-Pac fight as a reference. But we shouldn't forget how close JMM came to being stopped himself.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maravilla2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris6878
Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?
How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?
I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.
You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.
Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?
It would be best for team Pac that almost everyone believe that Floyd will win. Such train of thought will result to more credits will be given to a Pac win as compared to a Floyd win.
And besides, betting on Pac and him winning will probably make you rich. :)
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
zhubin
Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.
Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.
People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.
Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A
Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.
Re: Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago
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Originally Posted by
beenKOed
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Originally Posted by
Master
Pac is worse now and past his impressive peak years ago when he was storming through the division.
You don't think Manny has a chance?
No he has very little chance. @Manju just confirmed that Floyd will use his boxing skills, counter punching and overall size to prove he is the best welterweight in the world.
I would love Manny to win, just love it but honestly can not see it happen.
