Printable View
I get that Munguia is a money maker, but this is getting ridiculous constantly feeding small fighters to him to beat up. The worst part is is that it’s dangerous. He is almost always way bigger than his opponents. It’s not just that he cuts a lot of weight but that they pick fighters who wouldn’t even be at that weight.
They are trying to squeeze as much money as they can out of him. He will not be able to beat any top contender especially if he moves up in weight.
It will catch up with him eventually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYbl8G5ra0M
The only good part about when he fights a good fighter, because the good fighter will be wasting his time, is that this guy can go away.
Who am I kidding. They will Lemieux him. Like Lemieux, he can’t fight, but like Lemieux, the he’s like us fans like him so he’s profitable, so, like Lemieux, he’ll be propped up a few different times for a name to pummel.
Who do you want him to fight? A Charlo would be good. lolol... Everyone left the division searching for Canelo but it seems that Canelo wants to go all the way up to heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
:rolleyes:
Strange card yesterday, Garcias(Ryan) opponent was arrested the day of the weigh in for an incident a few months earlier, peculiar match making from Gb :S then Garcia refuses to fight duno who was also on the card, maybe fair enough, and goes on an odd Twitter rant about pay.:S....
Munguia is on his way to middleweight, where he will need to reset himself I think and avoid the world titles for now, he's young and not without talent but he's pretty far from beating good guys his own size right now.
Definitely not a quality offering from Dazn. Felt very patchwork and they draw these out with screwball wth stuff like promoting a ksi white collar 'match' whatever that is. Garcia comes off like bit of a Jr. diva and saw they offered him Petrov as well trying to salvage the spot. Basically this was the unofficial-official 160 debut of Munguia v some unranked tiny fella and he still managed to be out boxed in the first two rounds :-X.
Munguia has a solid chin but is getting hit by much smaller fighters and is getting hit a lot. When he goes up in weight, it will be much worse. Unfortunately, his chin won’t hold up much longer. Fortunately, he has made quite a bit of money through is career for not being very good (his purse was a million for this fight which is insane!).
Some of you guys were complaining about "weight hopping" and "undeserved" alphabet shots (Loma), yet here a guy defends his belt half-a-dozen times a year and he's a "weight bully." However, he should stay away from top middleweights because he's crap.
Isn't it all a bit hypocritical?
The same people threw a fit when Munguia was going to fight Golovkin.
He's only 22.
Not hypocritical at all. You always just actively try to disagree with people and find things to be upset about. You are really reaching for this one though. Weight hopping and specifically fighting smaller fighters who you have a high risk of severely injuring is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I mean honestly speaking Munguia did win the trinket from a welterweight, as a replacement. Personally I wouldn't fancy his chances with Golovkin today anymore than I did back during Canelos Steak-gate. Knowing the wbo though they'll hustle him right into the #1 spot and maybe he has a go at Andrade.
No way they put him in with Andrade. That is the absolute worst possible match up for him. I think he loses to any top middleweight, but Andrade would just make him look sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Crystal Ball Dept.:
Munguia will continue to be fed smaller fighters to get his record nice and bloated. The public will look at the W's and L's and clamor for a fight between the Mexican deity and the young, undefeated Mexican up-and-comer. A suitable site will be found for a "Cinco de Mayo" mega-brawl. It'll be ridiculously hyped with all the superlatives known to man. The deity will win and will say to his vanquished opponent... "patience, young grasshopper... patience." The fight itself will break PPV records.
Yeh true enough. The phrase 'paint by numbers' comes to mind :-X. Never been big on Andrade but Munguia would be a blank canvas and the way he eats shots Andrade would Bob Ross his arse all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherNo way they put him in with Andrade. That is the absolute worst possible match up for him. I think he loses to any top middleweight, but Andrade would just make him look sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
First the Bedazzled red speckled Diva will demand he fatten up to 175 and agree to a cw of 172.1/4. Munguia seems like a nice kid but they're doing him zero favors going to school on soft touches..as champion ffs :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
However, the "welterweight" was favourite, all so easy with hindsight, isn't it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
And WBO champions stepping up become mandatory, that's their rules. It would be fascinating to see how the career of multi-division champs like Crawford had played out without benefiting from it.
I've merely offered an alternative view and asked a question, that's all. No offense is meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherNot hypocritical at all. You always just actively try to disagree with people and find things to be upset about. You are really reaching for this one though. Weight hopping and specifically fighting smaller fighters who you have a high risk of severely injuring is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I believe you're "reaching" by claiming his opponents at 154 are in danger. He looks big, yes, he's 6ft, but continues to make lightmiddle and all his defences have been against WBO top ranked lightmiddles. Not only that, several have been close competitive bouts.
The hypocrisy and contradictions of boxing fans/writers/fighters/promoters are utterly shameless and stick out like a sore thumb (i'm not singling you or any individual out).
Soft touches? I thought you was all for champions defending against "deserved" ranked contenders? The guys in line? The guys who work their way up the ratings? The no.1, 3, 5, 6, 9? Munguia's five defences have all been top rated WBO challengers. Isn't that the "old fashioned" way you prefer? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFirst the Bedazzled red speckled Diva will demand he fatten up to 175 and agree to a cw of 172.1/4. Munguia seems like a nice kid but they're doing him zero favors going to school on soft touches..as champion ffs :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHowever, the "welterweight" was favourite, all so easy with hindsight, isn't it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
And WBO champions stepping up become mandatory, that's their rules. It would be fascinating to see how the career of multi-division champs like Crawford had played out without benefiting from it.
Even oddsmakers make mistakes, and this one, who had favored Ali before the fight, admitted he had a made a mistake and Ali had no business being in there with the much, much bigger Munguia. A sentiment shared by much of the boxing world.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#226ec2072e68
I’m not offended but I just know that you love being contradictory. What you claim really has nothing to do with my original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI've merely offered an alternative view and asked a question, that's all. No offense is meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherNot hypocritical at all. You always just actively try to disagree with people and find things to be upset about. You are really reaching for this one though. Weight hopping and specifically fighting smaller fighters who you have a high risk of severely injuring is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I believe you're "reaching" by claiming his opponents at 154 are in danger. He looks big, yes, he's 6ft, but continues to make lightmiddle and all his defences have been against WBO top ranked lightmiddles. Not only that, several have been close competitive bouts.
The hypocrisy and contradictions of boxing fans/writers/fighters/promoters are utterly shameless and stick out like a sore thumb (i'm not singling you or any individual out).
Chavez Jr did the same thing. He was always way bigger than his opponents and it kind of became a joke. And Munguia isn’t really cleaning out a division. He is fighting top 10 ranked fighters by the WBO.
Like I always say though. The problem with all of these belts is that you have a “champion” who gets to fight “ranked” fighters while avoiding any top guy in the division. Honestly, I can’t imagine any of Munguia’s opponents are actually ranked top ten in the division. I’m just getting tired of certain fighters winning off of size rather than skill. I don’t blame Munguia because he is getting a lot of money doing what he is doing. I just hate how money allows things like this to happen.
Mate the alphabet boys might as well be using a hand full of spaghetti when compiling rankings ;D. I was talking The Ring and the first run for Loma ;). Only time I'll play in the rabbit hole of trinket ranks is answering your question and pointing out the guys higher could-should have had claim to another 'contender' first..leading to trinket try..rather than a fella with -0- pro starts. But on Munguia it's the fact he's on a 5th defense banking a million screams that he should be facing someone where the pre consensus isn't 'what round does he fall over'. Fair credit for Liam Smith who was-is a bonified challenger and had to withdraw from his chance at Alis trinket and got first crack. Also thoroughly exposed the defensive flaws of Munguia. Inoue was a hard durable nail. And Hogan..well he was on the end of a screw job down in Mee-he-co v Munguia. Oscar and Company talked up a uuuge rematch possibility, Munguia thought it was a draw but rather than a stiff test..and rematch they opted for another predictable showcase aka soft touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSoft touches? I thought you was all for champions defending against "deserved" ranked contenders? The guys in line? The guys who work their way up the ratings? The no.1, 3, 5, 6, 9? Munguia's five defences have all been top rated WBO challengers. Isn't that the "old fashioned" way you prefer? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliFirst the Bedazzled red speckled Diva will demand he fatten up to 175 and agree to a cw of 172.1/4. Munguia seems like a nice kid but they're doing him zero favors going to school on soft touches..as champion ffs :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
@Spicoli - Your problem with Loma is, he was gifted a WBO shot in his 2nd fight when there were more "worthy" and "deserving" contenders, right? You said the guys who "earnt" their shot. However, you're now saying "not the WBO top ranked contenders, The Ring ratings."
I said - it's one of four belts, it's not the days of one champion, right? Four belts with four completely different rankings (so guys rated by the WBC are different to the WBO etc).
I fully understand the alphabet rankings are nonsense, that's the whole point I was making.
So give me an example of a current "world" champion who beat 6 or 7 independently rated (The Ring top 10) "contenders" before getting an alphabet shot?
My point has nothing to do with Munguia "cleaning out" the division, I don't even rate him top 5, or give any credence to his "world" title. I know full well the difference between top 10 alphabet/independent ranked fighters. The very concept of TWO "world" champions per division, let alone four, was evidently diabolical to me 25 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherI’m not offended but I just know that you love being contradictory. What you claim really has nothing to do with my original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI've merely offered an alternative view and asked a question, that's all. No offense is meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherNot hypocritical at all. You always just actively try to disagree with people and find things to be upset about. You are really reaching for this one though. Weight hopping and specifically fighting smaller fighters who you have a high risk of severely injuring is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I believe you're "reaching" by claiming his opponents at 154 are in danger. He looks big, yes, he's 6ft, but continues to make lightmiddle and all his defences have been against WBO top ranked lightmiddles. Not only that, several have been close competitive bouts.
The hypocrisy and contradictions of boxing fans/writers/fighters/promoters are utterly shameless and stick out like a sore thumb (i'm not singling you or any individual out).
Chavez Jr did the same thing. He was always way bigger than his opponents and it kind of became a joke. And Munguia isn’t really cleaning out a division. He is fighting top 10 ranked fighters by the WBO.
Like I always say though. The problem with all of these belts is that you have a “champion” who gets to fight “ranked” fighters while avoiding any top guy in the division. Honestly, I can’t imagine any of Munguia’s opponents are actually ranked top ten in the division. I’m just getting tired of certain fighters winning off of size rather than skill. I don’t blame Munguia because he is getting a lot of money doing what he is doing. I just hate how money allows things like this to happen.
I don't regard anyone, regardless of alphabet title, THE world champion unless they've clearly proven to be no.1 in the division. Hence the reason I constantly use quotation marks around the word "world."
However, the problem is, the entire boxing industry, along with most FANS, have bought into the belts hook, line and sinker, whilst the "hardcore" who haven't, pick and choose when it suits. Hence the double-standards for fighters/promoters they either like or dislike.
That's where I come in - a contrarian cunt.
Exactly. A perfect illustration of my point, all so easy with hindsight. If boxing fans were forced to put their money where their mouth is, trust me, they'd quickly see the entire business in a different light.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterHowever, the "welterweight" was favourite, all so easy with hindsight, isn't it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
And WBO champions stepping up become mandatory, that's their rules. It would be fascinating to see how the career of multi-division champs like Crawford had played out without benefiting from it.
Even oddsmakers make mistakes, and this one, who had favored Ali before the fight, admitted he had a made a mistake and Ali had no business being in there with the much, much bigger Munguia. A sentiment shared by much of the boxing world.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#226ec2072e68
(p.s - not to show off, but I was in the minority who profited from the upset :))
Well I guess one thing we can all agree on is that belts are worthless, at least as compared with the belts of years past. A perfect example is Munguia. Gifted a "world" title shot (using the same quotation marks here) after a parade of nondescript opponents all save one inside of Mexico. When the shot finally arrived, it was against the woefully undersized and thoroughly outgunned Ali. Bookmakers may have made Ali the favorite... but then again few bookmakers KSAB. The result was an upset only to those who lean on bookmaker favorites for advice.
My pet peeve with belts is that now more than ever they're being used as "tools" to further the boxing orgs' agendas. "X" fighter is chosen for stardom for whatever reason.... the path will be paved with gold and rose petals, until a suitable trinket can be found and fought for.... against a fattened calf.
Like I said before.... it's pageantry.
Honestly dude you have me dizzy with that and why we're back to Loma in a Munguia thread beats me. You were the one initially going on about "15 championship level fighters" this and that. I don't recall talking about "earnt" "worthy" or "deserving" or trying to legitimize those alphabet contenders other than replying that the alphabet group saw fit to have guys ranked higher than the fella Loma squashed but it resulted in him getting the immediate 1-0 title fight and shines a light on the entire system we all know is crooked and stacked. He jumped over 5,6 guys into a title fight..Munguia is an established trinket holder. It's apples and oranges. But cans are cans. These groups count on putting a few in the mix so they keep 'the next stars' fed and showcased. I mentioned only the Ring ranks from the get go as legit and how (Russell Jr) was unranked there when Loma got his immediate title do over after losing to Salido. Not sure where beating 6-7 Ring contenders before a title fight comes in and not sure such a fighter with that many exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Sorry, no worries, I thought you missed my point because I badly explained it, that's all, but we're not even on the same page. I make myself dizzy :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliHonestly dude you have me dizzy with that and why we're back to Loma in a Munguia thread beats me. You were the one initially going on about "15 championship level fighters" this and that. I don't recall talking about "earnt" "worthy" or "deserving" or trying to legitimize those alphabet contenders other than replying that the alphabet group saw fit to have guys ranked higher than the fella Loma squashed but it resulted in him getting the immediate 1-0 title fight and shines a light on the entire system we all know is crooked and stacked. He jumped over 5,6 guys into a title fight..Munguia is an established trinket holder. It's apples and oranges. But cans are cans. These groups count on putting a few in the mix so they keep 'the next stars' fed and showcased. I mentioned only the Ring ranks from the get go as legit and how (Russell Jr) was unranked there when Loma got his immediate title do over after losing to Salido. Not sure where beating 6-7 Ring contenders before a title fight comes in and not sure such a fighter with that many exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Bookmakers don't give advice, they make decisions based on evidence and knowledge, then stick their money where their mouth is (apologies to punters who know the score and can't get on :)). It's incredible how they remain in business seeing as everyone knew Ali had no chance yet he remained odds-on favourite all the way until Munguia started battering him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Would you mind providing all the other "certain upsets" coming up in the rest of the year? There's literally dozens and dozens fights priced up? Thanks.
https://www.oddschecker.com/boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBookmakers don't give advice, they make decisions based on evidence and knowledge, then stick their money where their mouth is (apologies to punters who know the score and can't get on :)). It's incredible how they remain in business seeing as everyone knew Ali had no chance yet he remained odds-on favourite all the way until Munguia started battering him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Would you mind providing all the other "certain upsets" coming up in the rest of the year? There's literally dozens and dozens fights priced up? Thanks.
https://www.oddschecker.com/boxing
I didn't SAY bookmakers GIVE advice. I said some look to bookmakers for advice. Subtle difference, and one I'm hoping needs no further explanation. ;)
The fact that bookmakers had made Ali the favorite against the free-swinging, power-punching, double-the-size Munguia just proves to me that some oddsmakers DKSAB.
Odds and favorites aside, the point of the thread remains a good one and very true. "Munguia beats up another little fighter" Totally on point. Keep up that M.O. and my predictions for the mega matchup will come true.
You see this is a perfect example of why petty arguments start on here. From reading your second post I now realise you DKSA Betting markets or how they're formed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterBookmakers don't give advice, they make decisions based on evidence and knowledge, then stick their money where their mouth is (apologies to punters who know the score and can't get on :)). It's incredible how they remain in business seeing as everyone knew Ali had no chance yet he remained odds-on favourite all the way until Munguia started battering him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Would you mind providing all the other "certain upsets" coming up in the rest of the year? There's literally dozens and dozens fights priced up? Thanks.
https://www.oddschecker.com/boxing
I didn't SAY bookmakers GIVE advice. I said some look to bookmakers for advice. Subtle difference, and one I'm hoping needs no further explanation. ;)
The fact that bookmakers had made Ali the favorite against the free-swinging, power-punching, double-the-size Munguia just proves to me that some oddsmakers DKSAB.
This is not an insult, please don't take it that way, as there's no reason for you to care or know anything about gambling. I now understand why you think what you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou see this is a perfect example of why petty arguments start on here. From reading your second post I now realise you DKSA Betting markets or how they're formed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterBookmakers don't give advice, they make decisions based on evidence and knowledge, then stick their money where their mouth is (apologies to punters who know the score and can't get on :)). It's incredible how they remain in business seeing as everyone knew Ali had no chance yet he remained odds-on favourite all the way until Munguia started battering him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Would you mind providing all the other "certain upsets" coming up in the rest of the year? There's literally dozens and dozens fights priced up? Thanks.
https://www.oddschecker.com/boxing
I didn't SAY bookmakers GIVE advice. I said some look to bookmakers for advice. Subtle difference, and one I'm hoping needs no further explanation. ;)
The fact that bookmakers had made Ali the favorite against the free-swinging, power-punching, double-the-size Munguia just proves to me that some oddsmakers DKSAB.
This is not an insult, please don't take it that way, as there's no reason for you to care or know anything about gambling. I now understand why you think what you think.
No insult taken. All I was trying to say is that some people (maybe casuals, who knows) only form an opinion about an upcoming fight after looking at what the bookmakers are saying. That's all. Not that bookmakers are giving anybody any advice. IMO, giving advice is totally different from people looking at what you say or do and using it as advice.
And you're absolutely correct. IDKSABM and I'll be the first to admit it.
No worries indeed man I badly explain shat all the time. Dizziness comes easy when trying to make sense of these crooked feckers. And Saturday booze. That does it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSorry, no worries, I thought you missed my point because I badly explained it, that's all, but we're not even on the same page. I make myself dizzy :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliHonestly dude you have me dizzy with that and why we're back to Loma in a Munguia thread beats me. You were the one initially going on about "15 championship level fighters" this and that. I don't recall talking about "earnt" "worthy" or "deserving" or trying to legitimize those alphabet contenders other than replying that the alphabet group saw fit to have guys ranked higher than the fella Loma squashed but it resulted in him getting the immediate 1-0 title fight and shines a light on the entire system we all know is crooked and stacked. He jumped over 5,6 guys into a title fight..Munguia is an established trinket holder. It's apples and oranges. But cans are cans. These groups count on putting a few in the mix so they keep 'the next stars' fed and showcased. I mentioned only the Ring ranks from the get go as legit and how (Russell Jr) was unranked there when Loma got his immediate title do over after losing to Salido. Not sure where beating 6-7 Ring contenders before a title fight comes in and not sure such a fighter with that many exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
so munguia's steps up to middle against o'sullivan. safe enough with hogan already tied up. adames vs teixeira for the vacant title?
Too bad O’Sullivan wasn’t a little younger because it would be a fun fight. It may still be since Munguia is moving up
I just don't see Munguia a great deal at the very top of 160 and Spike should be a safe bet at this point to let him get his feet wet. Odd really, more often than not you see a reigning wbo trinket holder ushered right into a top spot when they go up a division but not sure Spike even cracks their top 20 today.
Looks like it, Adames feels like the real deal but have to wonder where he's at with bit of a quick turn given the tragedy with Day last out.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC