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Tyson Fury's record is laughable
According to fast Eddie when compared to AJ's
https://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...-its-laughable
So what we saying. Who's got the better record?
I think language is important here. Record. A record, to me is pure data. Facts and figures. Under that criteria I think AJ has the better record. Better quality of opposition, sooner and in a shorter space of time.
Last ten fights. Just on paper a better list of fighters in Joshua's column for me.
| Ruiz |
Wilder |
| Ruiz |
Wallin |
| Povetkin |
Schwarz |
| Parker |
Wilder |
| Takam |
Pieneta |
| Klitschko |
Seferi |
| Molina |
Klitschko |
| Breazeale |
Hammer |
| Martin |
Chisora |
| Whyte fight 15 |
Abell fight 22 |
If we look at their records on the whole, call it a resume if you like, it changes the picture for me a little. Fury has half a dozen or so fights on Joshua. Fury spent those half a dozen fights having up and downers with Steve Cunningham, Neven Pajkic. Going life and death with John McDermott. Ducking David Price to fight Martin Rogan for the Irish title. Fighting Vinny Maddalone at the Hand Arena around the corner from me.
Those experiences are important. They weren't exactly under the radar affairs, they would have been televised but compared to the scrutiny of every Joshua fight they were low key to say the least. Fury was considered a bit of a novelty with a great name and very much the poor relation to David price up until Price fell apart in 2013.
Those knocks, near misses and low key fights under the cover of obscurity, novelty and no where near the white heat of an AJ event have shaped Fury into what he has become. He truly knows who he is as a fighter and what he can and can't do. Joshua had no such luxury. From day one he was a star and under the microscope. No room for a dodgy points win at British level, no room for being dumped on your backside by a cruiserweight or no name Canadian, it just couldn't happen. In a way he's a victim of his own success. He's smashed his way to the top and then had to start thinking about it. He's learned his lessons and taken his lumps at the highest possible level. Fury covered some of that ground 8 years ago and it stands him in better stead in 2020.
On paper. AJ has the better 'record'. But on the whole there's an argument for Fury's way building a better more rounded fighter who is completely at one with himself, and what he is doing in the ring. I'm not convinced Joshua is in that place yet.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
AJ had the same fame that Fury did but still didn’t get busted for PEDS.
We cannot skip over that fact.
I think we can all agree Fury’s style is awful to watch but he is still the man to beat in the division.
His resume is awful but he has beat the x2 big names.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Well, not to nitpick, but Fury doesn't have "two" better names and half of AJ's opposition is 50/50 with Wilder. Fury's matchmaking/path has been brilliant (lucky). If you add 4 or 5 of AJ's victims to his record he's one of the greatest heavyweights in history, instead of having one cert HOF-er on his record which he shares with AJ.
Good point about context. Most of Fury's fanatical fans - who just happen to despise all things Joshua - didn't know he existed when Fat John was duffing him up on Friday Fight Night in front of one man and a dog.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Well, not to nitpick, but Fury doesn't have "two" better names and half of AJ's opposition is 50/50 with Wilder. Fury's matchmaking/path has been brilliant (lucky). If you add 4 or 5 of AJ's victims to his record he's one of the greatest heavyweights in history, instead of having one cert HOF-er on his record which he shares with AJ.
Good point about context. Most of Fury's fanatical fans - who just happen to despise all things Joshua - didn't know he existed when Fat John was duffing him up on Friday Fight Night in front of one man and a dog.
It was a Saturday I'm sure. :) And Fat John won by a few rounds. Not close at all.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
AJ's is more consistent. You don't see any Wallins, Schwartzs, or Pianetas in there. Fury does have an awful win against a totally psyched out Klitschko, and two great fights against Wilder.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Can't argue AJ has the much better record but Fury has taken the big danger fights with the opponents in their prime (and for one of those Fury was nowhere near in peak condition)
They've both proven they deserve to be classed as the two elite fighters of the division.
The better the opponent the better Fury performs and is focused. AJ won't be able to handle him
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Yeah language/context is imporant. While Fury did take longer to step up and hasn't consistently faced the same quality, I feel he's considerably more improved than AJ over the same time frame, so hard to knock the path taken or whatnot. Hoping these two actually fight next year in any case, really interested to see Fury going forward if he keeps coming in heavy and sitting down on his shots more, he might well beat AJ however he chooses to as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Since the scare against Cunningham Fury has been carefully matched.
But i have doubted him many times and he keeps winning.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Since the scare against Cunningham Fury has been carefully matched.
But i have doubted him many times and he keeps winning.
Come on Al, that’s a tad harsh.before he stepped in the ring with Klitschko, I don’t think anybody could ever have thought he was carefully matched. The same applies to the first Wilder fight.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
AJ could stick to boxing like Ruiz 2 and beat Fury on decision or KO.
AJ is an Olympic champion and knows how to box.
Fury might get a serious wake up call in 2021.
I still think he’s the best but the PED ban is still an issue and always will be!
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Fury isn’t a plodder like Ruiz.
And will be in shape.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
I have to admit it took awhile to come around to Fury. Dismissed him as a yappy buffoon with the ultimate Dad bod but that changed with Wlad and Wilder. Although when comparing same opponents faced I was actually more impressed with AJs win over Wlad. A lot of that had to do with Wlad as he really did go to war and that is a rarity, a literal last stand. But AJ showed adjustment and extreme grit battling back. Overall AJ has the better scalps in what felt like more complete performances. Ruiz Jr running him over like a runaway Ice Cream truck aside he's been buzzed in spots but seems all about the business at hand in the ring. He also took his biggest adversity back to back with no filler as opposed to Fury moonlighting with Wraslin, Otto Wallin and Tom Thumb. Fury was marketing and building brand totally get it but he does give the impression that he fights down to the level of his competition sometimes. But not only did Fury twice face "the be all end all" blah blah that was Wilder but he apparently caused the poor man to go off the deep end. In the bigger picture though Fury is brilliant in scratching and smartly constructing his way back to be sitting at the top right now. Props to both of them coming from a Yank I guess as it took some convincing but now when I hear their next fight date we'll surely tune in.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Props to the poster who always defended Fury, then vanished sometime after he beat Kiltchsko.
Forgot who that was.
Fury has shown he fights well outside the UK and AJ not so well.
Fury should take a matchup with AJ in Saudi, not in the UK.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Ross ;D
Fair play to the fella. He was firmly in Fury's corner and he came good on his word. My memory is shite but didn't he leave as part of a bet? Shame.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Ross ;D
Fair play to the fella. He was firmly in Fury's corner and he came good on his word. My memory is shite but didn't he leave as part of a bet? Shame.
There was no reason for Ross to leave, he did not lose a bet. Primo gave him some stick and he could not tolerate it anymore and decided to leave. His choice.
The strange thing was he took way more crap for backing Fury over years than what he actually left for.
I thought we would Ross come back when Fury beat Wilder but he is that stubborn.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Ross ;D
Fair play to the fella. He was firmly in Fury's corner and he came good on his word. My memory is shite but didn't he leave as part of a bet? Shame.
There was no reason for Ross to leave, he did not lose a bet.
Primo gave him some stick and he could not tolerate it anymore and decided to leave. His choice.
The strange thing was he took way more crap for backing Fury over years than what he actually left for.
I thought we would Ross come back when Fury beat Wilder but he is that stubborn.
Hang on a minute, that’s bullshit with all due respect. It makes it sound like I drove the fucker out.
Loads of people gave him stick, and I gave him props loads of times . I lost the bet.
I gave him more stick about Eubank Jr. Than Fury.
Tell you what I’m gonna do, I’m sending him a PM because if he left cos of me , I would be mortified.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Ross ;D
Fair play to the fella. He was firmly in Fury's corner and he came good on his word. My memory is shite but didn't he leave as part of a bet? Shame.
There was no reason for Ross to leave, he did not lose a bet.
Primo gave him some stick and he could not tolerate it anymore and decided to leave. His choice.
The strange thing was he took way more crap for backing Fury over years than what he actually left for.
I thought we would Ross come back when Fury beat Wilder but he is that stubborn.
Hang on a minute, that’s bullshit with all due respect. It makes it sound like I drove the fucker out.
Loads of people gave him stick, and I gave him props loads of times . I lost the bet.
I gave him more stick about Eubank Jr. Than Fury.
Tell you what I’m gonna do, I’m sending him a PM because if he left cos of me , I would be mortified.
I was joking, you were the straw that broke him, it was his choice.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
my first time posting here in 10yrs....wtf happened to coolclicks?
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
Good point on Mike. Didn't realize the respective ages of Wlad and Holmes at those times. Mike not only beat Holmes... he DESTROYED him. He should get a ton more credit than he gets for that.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
Good point on Mike. Didn't realize the respective ages of Wlad and Holmes at those times. Mike not only beat Holmes... he DESTROYED him. He should get a ton more credit than he gets for that.
hey there TitoFan...i remember you from back in the day...i originally started posting in 2005 but had to sign in under different name 2007....havnt been on here in like 8yrs. Is user violentdemise and ICB still around? and what happened to cool clicks?
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
Good point on Mike. Didn't realize the respective ages of Wlad and Holmes at those times. Mike not only beat Holmes... he DESTROYED him. He should get a ton more credit than he gets for that.
hey there TitoFan...i remember you from back in the day...i originally started posting in 2005 but had to sign in under different name 2007....havnt been on here in like 8yrs. Is user violentdemise and ICB still around? and what happened to cool clicks?
Hi spanky. I started in 2005 too... so basically we're both 15-year veterans here. ;D Cool clicks got eliminated at some point... don't recall exactly when. All that remains are Likes and Thanks. Oh... and Reputations too.
VD and ICB I have no idea. Not even a members search shows either one of them, which is odd.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
Good point on Mike. Didn't realize the respective ages of Wlad and Holmes at those times. Mike not only beat Holmes... he DESTROYED him. He should get a ton more credit than he gets for that.
hey there TitoFan...i remember you from back in the day...i originally started posting in 2005 but had to sign in under different name 2007....havnt been on here in like 8yrs. Is user violentdemise and ICB still around? and what happened to cool clicks?
Hi spanky. I started in 2005 too... so basically we're both 15-year veterans here. ;D Cool clicks got eliminated at some point... don't recall exactly when. All that remains are Likes and Thanks. Oh... and Reputations too.
VD and ICB I have no idea. Not even a members search shows either one of them, which is odd.
VD got banned and ICB stopped posting for reasons that are embarrassing for him to mention here.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
I thought AJ's victory over Vlad Klit was more exciting than Fury's performance against Vlad, and i agree, AJ's record is way better than fury's, however i predict fury will whoop AJ if and when they fight.....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a little of topic but would like to hear your opinion. 🥊...ps...fury has come a long way from severe depression and obesity to expose that big stiff wilder who thinks he would ko prime tyson in 1rd 🤣.....imo AJ has a suspect chin
Good point on Mike. Didn't realize the respective ages of Wlad and Holmes at those times. Mike not only beat Holmes... he DESTROYED him. He should get a ton more credit than he gets for that.
hey there TitoFan...i remember you from back in the day...i originally started posting in 2005 but had to sign in under different name 2007....havnt been on here in like 8yrs. Is user violentdemise and ICB still around? and what happened to cool clicks?
Hi spanky. I started in 2005 too... so basically we're both 15-year veterans here. ;D Cool clicks got eliminated at some point... don't recall exactly when. All that remains are Likes and Thanks. Oh... and Reputations too.
VD and ICB I have no idea. Not even a members search shows either one of them, which is odd.
VD got banned and ICB stopped posting for reasons that are embarrassing for him to mention here.
ok thanks.....thats a shame....i always enjoyed debating ICB
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Would a fair conclusion be that while Fury went off the rails Joshua cleaned up a bit, but the Wilder spectacle never materialised (blame whoever you want).
Warren and Fury took a big gamble in taking the Wilder fight and it paid off big time, and then he goes and knocks him out second time round to propel himself back up to his standing at the top table.
Hindsight is easy, but Hearn and Josh must be ruing the Wilder fight never happening after all the back and forth, seeing him dismantled by Fury, AJ could have been the full unified champ without having to take Ruiz and that bad loss, and this debate wouldn't even be happening!
I think as it's turned out Fury is seen as the man at the top due to how he beat Wilder while the Ruiz loss damaged Josh's standing somewhat.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TonnnnUK
Would a fair conclusion be that while Fury went off the rails Joshua cleaned up a bit, but the Wilder spectacle never materialised (blame whoever you want).
Warren and Fury took a big gamble in taking the Wilder fight and it paid off big time, and then he goes and knocks him out second time round to propel himself back up to his standing at the top table.
Hindsight is easy, but Hearn and Josh must be ruing the Wilder fight never happening after all the back and forth, seeing him dismantled by Fury, AJ could have been the full unified champ without having to take Ruiz and that bad loss, and this debate wouldn't even be happening!
I think as it's turned out Fury is seen as the man at the top due to how he beat Wilder while the Ruiz loss damaged Josh's standing somewhat.
I agree that AJ should have taken on Wilder to become undisputed champion and let it slip but it has come out that Wilder was asking for a "kings ransom" for the title. AJ/Eddie made a business decision not to increase their bid and probably hoped Wilder would lose the belt preferably against Whyte which never did materialise.
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TonnnnUK
Would a fair conclusion be that while Fury went off the rails Joshua cleaned up a bit, but the Wilder spectacle never materialised (blame whoever you want).
Warren and Fury took a big gamble in taking the Wilder fight and it paid off big time, and then he goes and knocks him out second time round to propel himself back up to his standing at the top table.
Hindsight is easy, but Hearn and Josh must be ruing the Wilder fight never happening after all the back and forth, seeing him dismantled by Fury, AJ could have been the full unified champ without having to take Ruiz and that bad loss, and this debate wouldn't even be happening!
I think as it's turned out Fury is seen as the man at the top due to how he beat Wilder while the Ruiz loss damaged Josh's standing somewhat.
I agree that AJ should have taken on Wilder to become undisputed champion and let it slip but it has come out that Wilder was asking for a "kings ransom" for the title. AJ/Eddie made a business decision not to increase their bid and probably hoped Wilder would lose the belt preferably against Whyte which never did materialise.
All talk about money/contracts I just don't believe any of what anyone says! It's always a blame game and the truth is that no one really knows what was discussed, who stalled or demanded things and they will never admit to why things didn't materialise.
That being said, IF that's the way tings went then it's unfortunate and AJ was never going to get the Wilder fight, but at the time both sides claimed to want the fight and were blaming the other side. Who really knows!?
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Re: Tyson Fury's record is laughable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
According to fast Eddie when compared to AJ's
https://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...-its-laughable
So what we saying. Who's got the better record?
I think language is important here. Record. A record, to me is pure data. Facts and figures. Under that criteria I think AJ has the better record. Better quality of opposition, sooner and in a shorter space of time.
Last ten fights. Just on paper a better list of fighters in Joshua's column for me.
If we look at their records on the whole, call it a resume if you like, it changes the picture for me a little. Fury has half a dozen or so fights on Joshua. Fury spent those half a dozen fights having up and downers with Steve Cunningham, Neven Pajkic. Going life and death with John McDermott. Ducking David Price to fight Martin Rogan for the Irish title. Fighting Vinny Maddalone at the Hand Arena around the corner from me.
Those experiences are important. They weren't exactly under the radar affairs, they would have been televised but compared to the scrutiny of every Joshua fight they were low key to say the least. Fury was considered a bit of a novelty with a great name and very much the poor relation to David price up until Price fell apart in 2013.
Those knocks, near misses and low key fights under the cover of obscurity, novelty and no where near the white heat of an AJ event have shaped Fury into what he has become. He truly knows who he is as a fighter and what he can and can't do. Joshua had no such luxury. From day one he was a star and under the microscope. No room for a dodgy points win at British level, no room for being dumped on your backside by a cruiserweight or no name Canadian, it just couldn't happen. In a way he's a victim of his own success. He's smashed his way to the top and then had to start thinking about it. He's learned his lessons and taken his lumps at the highest possible level. Fury covered some of that ground 8 years ago and it stands him in better stead in 2020.
On paper. AJ has the better 'record'. But on the whole there's an argument for Fury's way building a better more rounded fighter who is completely at one with himself, and what he is doing in the ring. I'm not convinced Joshua is in that place yet.
IMO AJ has the better record on paper, the better career overall. 2 years he snatched the commonwealth. Snatched four (0)s from his foes & snatched 3 belts in his 1st four years? That is credible!
While I am an avid supporter of Wilder fights, I can't base my standing to grade him, rather the board's standing is more objective. And that is Wilder sucks. Per this forum and all others, his balance is bad, his jab is barely average. His defense is porous, his resume is subpar or decent at best.
For fans to dog Wilder, then uplift him for Fury's sake IMO is hypocritical. I like Wilder because of that right hand its a mutha!!!
In other words Fury beat a one trick pony. Albeit it a helluva one hitter quitter one trick pony, nonetheless it does nothing that spruces up his resume.
As far as stating AJ knows who he is as a fighter and AJ doesn't -not sure I agree with that. IMO Ruiz 2 proved AJ knows who he is & his limitations to which is why he had no problems being called out for choosing to box the fat guy as opposed to taking the fight to him.
Previous to that, him getting off the canvas against Wlad is a rarety as well. He learned he could rise from the canvas, Even against Ruiz I, but the ref denied him the chance to go out on his shield.
I think Fury is a better boxer with a shitty resume. He also stands to beat AJ, but I wouldn't equate that to having a better career.
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Originally Posted by
spanky-banky
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Originally Posted by
Master
AJ's record is better, although Fury has 2 better names on his record.
Fury beating Wlad before AJ did, in his adopted country, whilst he was a dominant champion was more impressive than what AJ did against Wlad.
Fury beating Wilder twice when AJ was in a better position to unify is also another positive for Tyson Fury.
Fury has only himself to blame for wasting 3 years of his career due to mental health/drugs, depends on how you see it, and wondering in the wilderness. This allowed AJ to clean up most of the division and beat the better names.
I do disagree with you when you say AJ had to face the scrutiny that Fury did not and so may not have developed as he should have. I see AJ enjoying the fame, money and notoriety whilst developing his boxing skills and career.
....another thing i find interesting is that everyone gives Fury and AJ full credit for beating Vlad @ 40yrs, but no one gives M.Tyson credit for destroying a 38yr old Holmes. Holmes is considered by most to be the best HW champ of all time, along with Ali and Louis and at the time 1988 ,Holmes was basically undefeated with the exception of 2 questionable decision losses to M.Spinks....a
Good points.
On Tyson/Holmes Fury-Aj/Klit comparison: I'm guilty of such!
Neither AJ nor Fury going into the fight was seen as murderous punchers. Mike was.
Kiltschko wasn't coming off a 2 year retirement vs Fury, like Larry, who was- I think touring with his band?:rolleyes:
I didn't give Mike credit then nor now and appreciate his post interview when he stated he beat Larry Holmes the Legend, not the fighter.
Fury was and still has detractors, so that made it all the more surreal that he beat Wlad....using Wlad's style. Did they even land 200 punches combined? IMO that fight would rate in my bottom 5 worst HW championship fights.
As far as AJ over Wlad? Good win for him. IMO it was Wlad's long rule that may have given many a reason to side with him over AJ, whereas Mike didn't rule for very long. It was brief, but menacing.
