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Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.
I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.
I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!
I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.
In your opinion, why are people staying poor?
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
And to be more specific my question is more about developed nations rather than developing or poor nations. In developed nations we have huge cities teeming with different kinds of work from teaching, to dentistry, to animal care, to nursing, to plumbing to whatever, there just seems to be such a plethora of things out there to do. One thing I do get is what Brock said about the lack of guidance from parents which is very true. I mean, if you are not in medical school by 25 then you are unlikely to ever be a doctor. Yet still, there is always something someone can do somewhere and with a bit of self responsibility, I am not sure what the issue is. This is actually one reason I would like to see immigration controlled to give members of nation states a chance or a kick up the bum.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing :p.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing :p.
It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.
Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing :p.
It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.
Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?
Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.
Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes :-X.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.
The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.
The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.
Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.
The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.
The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.
Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.
Yes and most of them are from backgrounds where the parents had no money and had families they couldn't afford.
We are now seeing the affects of that on the streets of London, and we have the liberal do gooders to thank, no discipline in schools and soft punishment for crime.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing :p.
It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.
Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?
Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.
Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes :-X.
Totally. I look at my younger self and there were poor decisions too. You chalk it up as experience and try to do better. That is where I think people quite often choose poverty and just refuse to change patterns of behavior. Either you sort yourself out or you don't. I used to spend a lot of my income on going out and looking good. It was fun, but quite definitely choosing to be poor.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
So by "choice" you mean their lifestyle makes them poor. Whereas you'd never spend above your means, there are millions on a lower income who do. So you'd never eat in a Michelin Starred restaurant as your overall budget can't support it.
The guy who works in McDonald's (is that a low paid job?) shouldn't eat McDonald's as his budget can't support it.
The problem with that is, not everyone is as boring as you, risk feels good.
Look at all these kids killing each other on London streets? They're all infatuated with money, cars, watches, bracelets - the power of wealth.
I could afford it, but not as a regular hobby and personally I don't think it is worth it as I am a fussy eater. Al likes his food, so a good choice for him. Me, not so much.
It's not about being boring either. For me it is about moderation. I used to be a serious social animal and would blow through money like there is no tomorrow. However that too gets boring over time and your liver won't respect you.
And watches and bling? That is more Walrus and good for him too. For me, I just like nice scenery, a good book, and a nice cup of the finest quality ginseng tea.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Poverty or being broke speaks many languages and definitely is not restricted to race. Debt and mistaken credit cards, loans as your own actual money will ensure you live your later days as the hard working poor. As a single male I make pretty good money, then some months I give well more than half away to tread water and keep the 8 year phone from ringing :p.
It does affect some races more than others statistically, but I am looking for a more general conversation really as I honestly struggle with this question.
Using what you have just said would you put that down to personal choice or society forcing it on you?
Geographical, State to State, location also play a major role.
Simply put I chalk the majority of personal financial hurdles to some dumb decisions, lack of a big picture planning many many years ago and sleeping on some opportunities. But you can't live backwards and there are no do overs in life. Maybe 1 or 2 'acts of god' in the form of natural disasters really hurt monetarily but compared to others I'm pretty fortunate. Where you're at mentally has a lot to do with it and you can't 'settle' and wait for someone to come save you. I think a lot of people who go around saying "I'm so broke" don't have the slightest idea what having absolutely nothing is really like. Probably why I can't get through a conversation with Nieces or Nephews without them rolling their eyes :-X.
Totally. I look at my younger self and there were poor decisions too. You chalk it up as experience and try to do better. That is where I think people quite often choose poverty and just refuse to change patterns of behavior. Either you sort yourself out or you don't. I used to spend a lot of my income on going out and looking good. It was fun, but quite definitely choosing to be poor.
We're responsible for our own actions. Not so sure I'd say everyone categorized 'poor' as choosing it as it's more a conditioning a lot of people seem to settle into. Some become content in their means. Some are idiots and carry 5 credit cards in their 20's. Everyone has different circumstances and roads traveled but truth is when you're young you know zero about hindsight and investment (career, educational or otherwise). Ultimately it's human instinct to better a condition if you're in a struggle, should be at least.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.
I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.
I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!
I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.
In your opinion, why are people staying poor?
You got called a racist, which is exactly what you are, because you said
"Black people choose to be poor"
The most telling part of you whole clusterfuck of an opening post is
"I can only assume"
It speaks volumes. You are so disconnected from the reality of most people's lives in your little apartment in SK with all that free time on your hands that you are basically filling your time blaming others for your own ennui.
It is on one level unspeakably sad and I feel some empathy for anyone left that alone with that kind of mindset, but I have little sympathy for the incredibly arrogant and self absorbed way you are choosing to deal with it. I doubt very much that you have been as poor as anyone on the forum. It might make you feel better but even being homeless in the west, is not the same as it is in many other countries, and before it became so hostile Saddo must have had people posting who never had the safety nets the west provide.
It would be comforting to think you were just a moron but that is obviously not the case. All you seem to do is spend your time hating on people with very little. The poor, refugees, the disabled, single mothers...it is kind of a twisted agenda with which to concern yourself, when your only answer seem to be, not only that they deserve it, but they choose it too.
Fucking hell and people think i have issues :-\
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Having recently been called racist because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty, I thought I would put the question out there as an open question. I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum. I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful. I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.
I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.
I can see how people stay poor if they are drinking regularly, buying new clothes constantly, eating out constantly, gambling in the bookies, smoking, and what have you, but a normal simple person can surely save up and with a brain find a career that tides them over. I was reading one excuse for poverty being house price inflation meaning new people cannot catch up with those that own already, but how does that work when I had nothing too? I am not a special person. You just need discipline, to stay smart, and to accept that you cannot have everything you want NOW!
I really do think it ends up being a personal choice. When I was a young adult, I chose to be poor as I would spend a lot on food, drink and travel. But then I calmed down and it became easy. I am not earning much more than a decade ago, but live more smartly.
In your opinion, why are people staying poor?
You got called a racist, which is exactly what you are, because you said
"Black people choose to be poor"
The most telling part of you whole clusterfuck of an opening post is
"I can only assume"
It speaks volumes. You are so disconnected from the reality of most people's lives in your little apartment in SK with all that free time on your hands that you are basically filling your time blaming others for your own ennui.
It is on one level unspeakably sad and I feel some empathy for anyone left that alone with that kind of mindset, but I have little sympathy for the incredibly arrogant and self absorbed way you are choosing to deal with it. I doubt very much that you have been as poor as anyone on the forum. It might make you feel better but even being homeless in the west, is not the same as it is in many other countries, and before it became so hostile Saddo must have had people posting who never had the safety nets the west provide.
It would be comforting to think you were just a moron but that is obviously not the case. All you seem to do is spend your time hating on people with very little. The poor, refugees, the disabled, single mothers...it is kind of a twisted agenda with which to concern yourself, when your only answer seem to be, not only that they deserve it, but they choose it too.
Fucking hell and people think i have issues :-\
So, who on the forum has been as poor, Oh Lawrence of the leafy suburbs of Plymouth with billboards all around the city who has his own little bungalow? I was very poor indeed, but it isn't a competition.
You should not project so much. It was a valid question and all you have in return is a character assassination because I asked the genuine question as to why people stay poor. If someone asks me why a group of people is poor I tend to think it boils down to personal choice and a lack of self responsibility. I am happy to be convinced that it is not personal choice, but so far in this thread all we have is that it is indeed personal choice.
I have my own youthful spending, I have seen hundreds of people in betting offices, I have seen the statistics of personal debt loads, I see the birth rates in the Philippines. All of these things are personal choices. It does not mean one hates anyone at all. To be poor is a state of being and it is not necessarily a question of good or bad. In my opinion it is not bad at all if you are not hurting others by your own recklessness. To drink gamble or drink or drug to oblivion and only be accountable to the self is probably quite fine.
Isn't that what you were saying about Brock too? That it was about his 'bitterness' and 'lack of self responsibility' that held him back? Isn't it even more ridiculous to blame slavery that was abolished hundreds of years ago for one's own inability to make sensible decisions in the here and now? You cannot have it both ways. If one directs ire at parents at least that is often a valid and quantifiable target.
And where did the hostility spring from? Are your own posts not responsible for plenty of that?
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).
It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"
Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.
Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."
But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.
You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.
Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.
So little Johnny (I always use that name ;D ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.
So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
True, Tito but if I branch out and bring in IQ and things of this nature it tends to get even more argumentative, but Beanz seens to be looking for a fight. I have my own thoughts on why all too many cannot get ahead and it boils down to being a bit thick, maybe crappy choices and being full of vice. People generally choose their poverty in the West, but a lack of nurturing certainly plays a part in making that happen too.
The question is really for others as my own conclusions are a bit grim and bad news. I want to hear other ideas just to see what gets thrown out.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Will address your points tomorrow if I have time. Your posts always seem to catch me at night.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
You're in SK (12 hours apart?) so it's a miracle we're ever online at the same time. ;D
When you DO address my post, please tell me what you make of little Johnny's choices about being poor or not. Granted, it's Johnny's mom spitting out kids and holding out her hand for the welfare checks. But Johnny himself... what REALISTIC choices does he have?
Also, the more I think about it, the more I blame governments. Lazy, dumbass people who insist on putting Band-aids where stitches were needed. They're at the core of our societal problems.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.
I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.
Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Having recently been called racist
Yes by me and I suspect that you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
because I honestly think people more often than not choose their own poverty.
No you don't. Not deep down.
About half the world’s 7 billion people live on less than $2.50 a day.
Buying a computer or being an inventor or business whizz to them would be like you trying to buy a Bugatti Veyron. Access to knowledge and education on this planet is very limited.
It might seem widely available because you were born in the USA so that’s all you know but if you were born in rural Burma or rural Angola you’d find your options for learning and bettering yourself to be extremely limited.
There is virtually no social mobility in many countries. You're either born into wealth through luck or you are born into the majority of impoverished people and will remain stuck there for life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I thought I would put the question out there as an open question.
You repeating yourself. You started a topic with a question and now again your saying "I'm gonna start this topic with a question"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I really struggle with this question as I have been as poor as anybody on this forum.
You think Bill Gates just worked hard ?
Everyone from Bill Gates to Warren Buffett needed a substantial amount of money to start up their companies. The founder of facebook (Mark Zuckerberg) attended two of the most expensive and prestigious schools in the USA (Harvard, Phillips Exeter Academy). Donald Trump inherited a couple hundred million dollars worth of assets from his daddy.
Most wealth is inherited and their success was due to their parents bank account, connections and a bit a luck but had little to do with their intelligence and hard work.
Steve Jobs (Apple Founder) was just another tech CEO. If Steve Jobs was not put up for adoption and his father returned with him back to Syria, then Steve Jobs today would have be some 60 something year old man in Syria named Mr Jandali. Maybe he would be Dr Jandali, but it is highly unlikely he would founded one of the world’s top computer companies.
Take the average drug dealer born in the ghetto. They could easily become a fortune five hundred CEO. The same type of person that has the personality and skills to run a criminal entrepreneurship can easily run a legal one, but many will never have the opportunity that will allow them to earn the credentials necessary to do so. Simply because of where they were born in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I have seen the recklessness and laziness of parents. I have been in very disadvantaged positions as a child. It was very obvious that my parents were either lazy or wasteful.
Stevie Wonder is a millionaire but his money does not disprove the fact that it's an advantage to have your eyesight.
You might have grew up living in the mud, without a biscuit (and even then I kinda doubt that) but you were still white as was your family.
So, in your case the proper test of your racial privilege would be to compare poor whites in the region you grew up, with poor blacks in the same region or state and to then ask, did whites have an advantage ?
In those competitions race matters.
You were not competing against Oprah or Micheal Jordan. You were competing (if you even lived around blk ppl and I doubt that) with other poor black folk and that's were race matters because black workers are the first fired in an economic downturn and remain more likely to be unemployed.
Perhaps white Americans should move to a reservation, or a district where impoverished Black people live, and continue talking about how ‘unfair ‘and ‘oppressive’ it is to be white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I was really bad with money as a young adult too having never really been taught how to respect it, but from a relatively young age I knew the importance of saving, of working hard, of upgrading a skill set and in turn have always seemed to do okay. I am just not sure what people are spending their money on to be poor all the time. Or why they are not moving to new towns. Or learning new skills.
Remember you are white and you were seen as white by your teachers, by employers, by doctors, by everyone. So as you were coming up you reaped the benefits of presumed whiteness :
The presumptions of competence
The presumptions of law-abidingness
The presumptions of general intelligence
None of these thing black people attending school can assume others will presume about us
So yes you may have worked hard but at every turn, your hard work was met with an access to an opportunity structure to which black people are more likely to have been denied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
I mean, I earn a pretty average income, nothing special going on. I think I bought a new TV about 8 years ago. The same old couch sits across from me. I can only assume a lot of people are trying to keep up with the Jones family across from them as personal debt levels are high here. All you do really is pay the bills, buy some food, the occasional replacement clothing, some fuel, some books and you are set. I get that bad things happen too and they do to me also. But insurance is not expensive, covering your health each month is only a single night out sacrificed.
Look - White privilege at it's most basic level is the privilege of having one less thing to worry about in life.
Don't get it twisted
Everyone has problems but for whites ? Dealing with systematic racism is not an issue.
I think it's grotesque and monumentally repugnant of white ppl who want to own victim-hood whilst being steeped in white privilege and patronizingly conflate their specific white ethnic problems within white dominance and project that onto black people and foist upon the very people (Black people) who have absolutely nothing to do with any past stuff that they may have had to deal with.
And then you try to equate your history as similar to that of black history, thereby relinquishing any culpability emanating from their own oppression/racism of black people all the while enjoying the ill-gotten fruits of white superiority.
Genius !! (lol)
Why don't you direct your complaints of ‘poor white oppression’ to you fellow white Anglo-Saxon brethren ?
Black people have never oppressed poor whites.
You have the nerve to sit there trying to garner sympathy whilst exonerating yourself of racism, from the very people (Black people) whom white supremacists oppress and continue to do so
.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson-The-Comeback
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Having recently been called racist
Yes by me and I suspect that you are.
Thereby making him no different to anyone else you interact with on here.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson-The-Comeback
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Having recently been called racist
Yes by me and I suspect that you are.
Thereby making him no different to anyone else you interact with on here.
Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like
'Black People choose to be poor'
Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.
I expect he thought he was being edgy or something ;D
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Oh and please just tell me to pour another drink instead of pretending to answer the question, its essentially the same thing.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Were it went simple enough to many people willing to live on benefits.
Many round my area where professional benefit cheats working on the side breeding a house full of kids one dipstick told me he could not work he had a bent finger and that prevented him from working mind you he could fuck he had 6 kids plus cleaning windows on the side.
There were many more to speak of what happened the genuine people who were disabled had to suffer because of this work shy bunch.
Poverty stuck in a rut etc there is work out there if people can be assed to look.
You would be amassed how work shy some people are I know people who a professional alcoholics I kid you not paid to stay at home and drink Worlds a fucked up place.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like
'Black People choose to be poor'
Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.
I expect he thought he was being edgy or something ;D
Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
And it affects people who arent poor by way of .................................................. .........
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like
'Black People choose to be poor'
Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.
I expect he thought he was being edgy or something ;D
Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.
Some yes Lyle others it can be out of their control mate.
I admire people who want to better themselves nothing wrong with that.
Education is a major factor also ones parents .
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Not really. I don't know any other posters here who post crap like
'Black People choose to be poor'
Nobody made Gandalf post that. He chose to.
I expect he thought he was being edgy or something ;D
Being poor is a choice a lot of people make regardless of skin color.
Some yes Lyle others it can be out of their control mate.
I admire people who want to better themselves nothing wrong with that.
Education is a major factor also ones parents .
In some cases yes, there are circumstances beyond an individual's ability to control and in other cases it's a choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-I-BVqMiNI
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.
Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. 😎
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
TBH, I find the OP question a little naive (no offense, Miles).
It's the equivalent of the question: "Did you stop beating your wife, yes or no?"
Being poor is not a choice for a great many people.
Sure, your points (Miles) about fatherless families where the mother gives birth to 10 children is totally accurate and well received. I agree 100%. It puts a needless burden on society and at this point it's inconceivable that women without much to contribute to society would be spitting out kids by the dozens. It's irresponsible, especially when usually the plan is that "Well....... the government will take care of us."
But that's only a certain segment of society. Sure, a very big segment, but it cuts across all races and ethnic groups.
You know who's really at fault, IMO? The governments.
Governments that lazily draw up welfare plans and implement them just as carelessly are entirely to blame. They make it possible for people to FREELOAD as much as they possibly can. Generations upon generations decide to live off the government and of course have as many kids as they can, as the number of kids is many times rewarded under these systems. Governments have f*cked society up as royally as possible.
So little Johnny (I always use that name ;D ) is born from a single black mother in the tough neighborhoods of Detroit, one of 10 kids born to this woman. They all live in the projects. They all live off food stamps, welfare, and whatever the mom can scrounge off the streets. Going to and staying in school is the first major challenge little Johnny is going to have to make. Just making it through grade school will be a challenge. The nearby public school is probably crime-ridden, teacher attendance is poor, and the lure of drug trafficking looms large as the way to some good, easy money. Let's say by some miracle Johnny makes it through the 12th grade. What chance does he have for a college or even a trade school education, all of which costs money? What grants are there available? Who's going to loan him money? By this time, all of Johnny's friends are either dead, or living the good life dealing drugs. Tough position to be in, is it not? What percentage of these kids actually make it through a post-high school education and make something out of themselves? I doubt anyone here has come from that background, and it would be interesting to see how each of us would deal with odds like that.
So asking "why do people stay poor" is in effect a superficially-sounding question that makes it seem like you're at Baskin Robbins choosing between chocolate or vanilla. It's not quite that simple.
Firstly, I agree that the question has a naive edge to it. It was mainly as I wanted an open question with people free to chime in as they liked. I also thought it would be fair to erase the racial element as people of any race can be poor, only statistically it effects some races more than others.
I agree with you completely that government has enabled and encouraged this behavior. Having children without planning or consideration is rewarded. I have seen it in my own life back home and it is generational and will continue. I hate to sound harsh but there comes a point when the tap of generosity needs to be shut down. It results in the smartest, most fiscally responsible people having fewer children and the least able having the most children and this is a very unhealthy trajectory.
I agree with your points about Johnny. He is going to have a very hard time making good decisions. He has never been able to see any alternative and thus the patterns will continue and he can cry about slavery all he likes, but his own mother put him into that environment and she did not consider the outcomes.
We are in an age of me and I feel as though children get used like commodities among the poor sometimes.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Could be bad luck, could be poor planning, could be a misunderstanding of the way the system works, could be somebody stole from you and put you in a hole you can't climb out of.
I think a lot of it has to do with A#1 being able to refrain from the Veruca Salt mentality "I want it now" and delay gratification and #2 not getting yourself into massive debt to begin with and the main culprits of that are A ) COLLEGE and B ) CREDIT CARDS ......and I'd also say Debit Cards don't help either from a psychological perspective it's not like a transaction with cash where you count the bills out and receive change it's just numbers on a card which are easier to lose track of.
Financial IQ is uncommon sense these days and ever since the government took control of student loans look at where the tuition prices have gone and value for money fucking forget about it college degrees are more and more worthless.
Two solid arguments there. After years of schooling and no financial education, what do schools do? They say 'You must go to University for your future'. You have no idea what you want to be and suddenly an adult child is now signed up to tens of thousands of debt and banks throwing cards and overdrafts out like confetti. That's somewhat dangerous and good schooling and parenting would have educated the child about those things. It doesn't happen.
I like the Salt analogy. I cannot believe anyone in the US would study in the humanities and come out 200,000 dollars poorer. Quite surreal.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Denilson, I will go through your points in numerical form and be concise as your post was too long and I cannot post it.
1. I have been called racist a number of times, but don't really care. I will stand by data and science and if that is thought crime, then I take it on the chin, bad boy.
2. You didn't read the second post in this thread. This thread is about first world problems. Regardless, if I was to go and work in Kenya, then I would be earning a few dollars a day like anyone else. It is enough to give you what you need in the environment you are in. Nobody is dying in the millions because of poverty there.
3. I was not Born in the USA. I am not Bruce Springsteen. However, though it is true that someone born poor is unable to suddenly produce a million dollars, there is no reason why someone cannot save a portion of their income and invest it wisely thus giving themselves a greater cushion in life. I worked for a low wage in the UK, but where did it go? On fun. Have less fun and, hey presto, you save money on a low wage! Amazing right?
4. You say there is no social mobility, but with good guidance any smart person can do something that pays reasonably well. Forget dreams of millions of dollars like Beyonce, but a real life in the here and now and people can be vets, doctors, teachers, scientists, fitness instructors. These are not all the realm of the super elite. But you do need discipline, guidance and smarts!
5. This is where I think broken families and a lack of role models is the biggest issue and that is on parents to display RESPONSIBILITY towards those they bring into the world.
6. Yes, I do think the bulk of poor people remain so as a choice. Certainly in the West.
7. See, you are citing billionaires. Those are not good examples as they are the exceptions rather than the norm. I am talking about the real world that we can all inhabit and why people choose to be poor. Of course most people are not going to become the new Bill Gates. That does not mean a working class person cannot become comfortable and live a middle class lifestyle with good decisions though. Compounding is not complicated, put 20 pounds a week away from the age of 18 and it will compound. You won't become a twat like Zuckerberg, but you will have more than the many who didn't do that. Decisions.
8. No, in the UK no race is more advantaged than any other race legally, but personal decisions are another matter and that is where inequality comes from. It is one of the most racially tolerant places in the world.
9. I am naturally smart, so obviously I have no issues passing courses, interviews and things of this nature. I don't feel my poverty ever held me back beyond not making better decisions sooner, having emotional damage, and lacking guidance earlier. If I could do it all again, I would be in medicine now. Broken families are a hurdle for ANYONE.
10. No, the average drug dealer would likely not be a great CEO. If he wanted to though he could take a business course and maybe try and get into a company like other people do. A clean criminal record would help for the interview process.
11. What is this white privilege that I have? I know a black person in the same position as me. Paid the same, treated the same. Seems pretty equal and based on ability to me.
12. I want no sympathy at all as I do not stay poor, bank each month, and have all I need. Didn't even need to sell drugs, but I guess that is because of my privilege.
Pull yourself together, Dennis. We will help you get a job, give you investment advice, and get you through. Not all white men are out to get you.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes? ;D
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.
Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. ������
I know you dont. Why do you pretend to,? Im a trust fund baby, so shut up before I crush you with my wallet.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Miles, those teenage drug dealers earn more in a day than you do a month. You are a mere pauper to them, your everyman, ordinary 9-to-5 lifestyle pathetic. However hard you work you'll never experience the extravagance, adoration and power of Beyonce's, 2-Pac's and Boris Johnson's.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
That is so decked out, that my granny paid me 15 an hour in 2001 to paint it myself.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Miles, those teenage drug dealers earn more in a day than you do a month. You are a mere pauper to them, your everyman, ordinary 9-to-5 lifestyle pathetic. However hard you work you'll never experience the extravagance, adoration and power of Beyonce's, 2-Pac's and Boris Johnson's.
How offensive. 9-5? Never.
I am in competition with nobody nor even trying to get rich. I am just asking why people choose to be poor. Sure a drug dealer can get very rich, but there is also a good chance of going to prison or getting stabbed too. Probably better to not go down that route. Not many drug dealers where I am and a jolly good thing it is too. It is not looked upon too fondly and it is great for society.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.
Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. ������
I know you dont. Why do you pretend to,? Im a trust fund baby, so shut up before I crush you with my wallet.
You are so pissed up you cannot even remember that you urinated in your wallet. I am not pretending anything, but I would like to see people make better decisions for themselves on a moral level. However, if they don't then it doesn't affect me too much either.
Why so emotional in this thread? You sound like a poor person who spent his months salary. Don't worry. Pay day will come around again next month.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.
Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. ������
I know you dont. Why do you pretend to,? Im a trust fund baby, so shut up before I crush you with my wallet.
You are so pissed up you cannot even remember that you urinated in your wallet. I am not pretending anything, but I would like to see people make better decisions for themselves on a moral level. However, if they don't then it doesn't affect me too much either.
Why so emotional in this thread? You sound like a poor person who spent his months salary. Don't worry. Pay day will come around again next month.
Shut up, I quite like you.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
K
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
A better question is; why the fuck do you care? The majority of people in abject poverty are probably happier than you are.
Who says I care? If poverty is a choice then no I do not care. I am just wondering why people do it to themselves.
Alcoholics make themselves poor, so pour another. See if I care. ������
I know you dont. Why do you pretend to,? Im a trust fund baby, so shut up before I crush you with my wallet.
You are so pissed up you cannot even remember that you urinated in your wallet. I am not pretending anything, but I would like to see people make better decisions for themselves on a moral level. However, if they don't then it doesn't affect me too much either.
Why so emotional in this thread? You sound like a poor person who spent his months salary. Don't worry. Pay day will come around again next month.
Shut up, I quite like you.
I know you do and I consider these back and forth's as Derek and Clive style 'being purposely offensive' routines. I would say I love you, but I cannot pretend that as I have no empathy and it would make Walrus jealous. But I do quite like you.
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Re: Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes? ;D
Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!