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James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
In reviewing another thread I started, I realize there's a lot of our good, knowledgeable posters who are super-fans of James Toney. So although I personally dislike Toney severely, I gotta respect our fellow boxing fans who are also Toney fans. Our differences are what make boxing such a great sport. Anyway, I thought I'd start a new thread where I do my best to put forth my opinions of Toney from three different points of view: as a fighter in general, as a heavyweight, and as a person.
Fighter:
As a fighter, you gotta give Toney his due. He began his career as a middleweight, and was simply dominant. He could punch… he could box… he was an elite athlete in his sport. Had he stayed at middleweight, or just gone up one or two divisions, he would’ve no doubt continued that dominance as an elite athlete in his sport. Instead, he decided to balloon up to practically one and a half times his original weight to go up into the heavyweight division.
Heavyweight:
Looks like something out of a freak show. Apparently decided it was too much trouble to remain in good physical condition. He also undoubtedly saw the shambles that is the heavyweight division today, and decided to take advantage of the situation. So he went up and did what apparently any halfway decent light-heavy can do when they want to go into the heavies: He beat John Ruiz. Big freaking deal !! Yeah, he hung in there twice with a big puncher like Sam Peter (who is still a work in progress, I might add). But honestly, could he have hung in there with the likes of Tyson? Lewis? Holyfield? Don’t think so. Now, after having been thoroughly dominated in his second go-round with Peter, he should just stick his tail between his legs and go back down in weight… or just retire.
Person:
Where do I begin? There are two people in boxing I’d love to see flat on their backs, being counted out: Zab Judah (thank YOU Kostya Tszyu!) and James Toney. I realize U.S. fans revere their boxing champions, just like any other country. But where is it written that it’s OK for an elite athlete to be such a first-class jerk? Did Michael Jordan act like a jerk while he was dominating the NBA? Do LaDanian Tomlinson or Peyton Manning act like jerks in the NFL? Oh… this is boxing, you say? OK… does Oscar have to act like a jerk to be popular in boxing? Did Gatti? Did Tito? Fact of the matter is: Toney is one of the most unlikable people I’ve ever known about in boxing. He’s a bigot, he’s ignorant, and has little class. Check that….. he’s got ZERO class. All of a sudden, Tyson came to mind. But funny thing… even though Tyson has had his issues, I’ve never disliked the guy. Matter of fact, I was a Tyson fan for a long time, and feel he was one of the best things to happen to boxing in the late 80’s and early 90’s. But Toney? That’s a whole ‘nother story. So, as long as I remain a boxing fan, I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knocks James Toney (or Zab Judah) TFO.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Not a bad post mate as far as the fighter bit is concerned but i think ur bein a bit too hasty when judging his personality. James toney liked to live up to his 'bad-ass crack dealer' label n it was good for marketing purposes.
To get a better idea of the real James Toney, i would recommend readin Dark Trade by Donald Mcrae.
N didnt Toney beat Holyfield in a 9th round TKO anyway?
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
He’s a bigot, he’s ignorant, and has little class.  Check that….. he’s got ZERO class.  All of a sudden, Tyson came to mind.  But funny thing… even though Tyson has had his issues, I’ve never disliked the guy.  Matter of fact, I was a Tyson fan for a long time, and feel he was one of the best things to happen to boxing in the late 80’s and early 90’s.  But Toney?  That’s a whole ‘nother story.  So, as long as I remain a boxing fan, I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knocks James Toney (or Zab Judah) TFO. 
I'm sorry, and I'm not bashing you or your opinion.  But you can't know a person unless you've met them.
Like with me and Paul Malignaggi.
On the TV he seems like an arrogant SOB.  But in person he's one of the most classy and together kids anyone could ever meet.  I got a lot of respect for him and his families pizzaria.  He's a really good guy, but if I just went from on the TV then I'd think he was just an arrogant so-and-so.  But in person he's the kind of person I prefer in boxing as he is one of the most classiest and great kids the sport could ever ask for in my opinion.
Oh and I have to put in.. LOVES HIS YANKEES!!!
:lol: :)
So until I've met James Toney I can't comment on the person he is, I can comment on the person I see on TV and I can comment on the character and I can comment on the news headlines and stories but I can't comment on James just because I don't agree with some of the things he says and does.  I wouldn't want someone judging me without ever meeting me, so I won't judge someone else.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickilad90
Not a bad post mate as far as the fighter bit is concerned but i think ur bein a bit too hasty when judging his personality. James toney liked to live up to his 'bad-a** crack dealer' label n it was good for marketing purposes.
To get a better idea of the real James Toney, i would recommend readin Dark Trade by Donald Mcrae.
N didnt Toney beat Holyfield in a 9th round TKO anyway?
I know some fighters love to play up the "bad guy" image for marketing purposes, but I honestly think Toney's act is not an act at all. I may have the guy all wrong, mind you, but I gotta go by gut instinct.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
He’s a bigot, he’s ignorant, and has little class. Check that….. he’s got ZERO class. All of a sudden, Tyson came to mind. But funny thing… even though Tyson has had his issues, I’ve never disliked the guy. Matter of fact, I was a Tyson fan for a long time, and feel he was one of the best things to happen to boxing in the late 80’s and early 90’s. But Toney? That’s a whole ‘nother story. So, as long as I remain a boxing fan, I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knocks James Toney (or Zab Judah) TFO.
I'm sorry, and I'm not bashing you or your opinion. But you can't know a person unless you've met them.
Like with me and Paul Malignaggi.
On the TV he seems like an arrogant SOB. But in person he's one of the most classy and together kids anyone could ever meet. I got a lot of respect for him and his families pizzaria. He's a really good guy, but if I just went from on the TV then I'd think he was just an arrogant so-and-so. But in person he's the kind of person I prefer in boxing as he is one of the most classiest and great kids the sport could ever ask for in my opinion.
Oh and I have to put in.. LOVES HIS YANKEES!!!
:lol: :)
So until I've met James Toney I can't comment on the person he is, I can comment on the person I see on TV and I can comment on the character and I can comment on the news headlines and stories but I can't comment on James just because I don't agree with some of the things he says and does. I wouldn't want someone judging me without ever meeting me, so I won't judge someone else.
Majesty, you bring up some great points. Very well put, I might add. But my gut tells me that James Toney and Paul Malignaggi are too VERY different people. There's a difference between being arrogant, as Malignaggi comes across, and just being a jerk. After the Peter fight, I shut the TV off... and even THEN I could've predicted Toney's post-fight reactions almost word-for-word. While it's pretty normal for fighters to think they won a fight they clearly lost, even Toney can't be as stupid as to think he actually won THAT fight. And it's not just that. I've seen (and heard) enough of Toney throughout the years to have come to the conclusions I posted. But granted, I've never actually met the man in person.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
In reviewing another thread I started, I realize there's a lot of our good, knowledgeable posters who are super-fans of James Toney. So although I personally dislike Toney severely, I gotta respect our fellow boxing fans who are also Toney fans. Our differences are what make boxing such a great sport. Anyway, I thought I'd start a new thread where I do my best to put forth my opinions of Toney from three different points of view: as a fighter in general, as a heavyweight, and as a person.
Fighter:
As a fighter, you gotta give Toney his due. He began his career as a middleweight, and was simply dominant. He could punch… he could box… he was an elite athlete in his sport. Had he stayed at middleweight, or just gone up one or two divisions, he would’ve no doubt continued that dominance as an elite athlete in his sport. Instead, he decided to balloon up to practically one and a half times his original weight to go up into the heavyweight division.
Heavyweight:
Looks like something out of a freak show. Apparently decided it was too much trouble to remain in good physical condition. He also undoubtedly saw the shambles that is the heavyweight division today, and decided to take advantage of the situation. So he went up and did what apparently any halfway decent light-heavy can do when they want to go into the heavies: He beat John Ruiz. Big freaking deal !! Yeah, he hung in there twice with a big puncher like Sam Peter (who is still a work in progress, I might add). But honestly, could he have hung in there with the likes of Tyson? Lewis? Holyfield? Don’t think so. Now, after having been thoroughly dominated in his second go-round with Peter, he should just stick his tail between his legs and go back down in weight… or just retire.
Person:
Where do I begin? There are two people in boxing I’d love to see flat on their backs, being counted out: Zab Judah (thank YOU Kostya Tszyu!) and James Toney. I realize U.S. fans revere their boxing champions, just like any other country. But where is it written that it’s OK for an elite athlete to be such a first-class jerk? Did Michael Jordan act like a jerk while he was dominating the NBA? Do LaDanian Tomlinson or Peyton Manning act like jerks in the NFL? Oh… this is boxing, you say? OK… does Oscar have to act like a jerk to be popular in boxing? Did Gatti? Did Tito? Fact of the matter is: Toney is one of the most unlikable people I’ve ever known about in boxing. He’s a bigot, he’s ignorant, and has little class. Check that….. he’s got ZERO class. All of a sudden, Tyson came to mind. But funny thing… even though Tyson has had his issues, I’ve never disliked the guy. Matter of fact, I was a Tyson fan for a long time, and feel he was one of the best things to happen to boxing in the late 80’s and early 90’s. But Toney? That’s a whole ‘nother story. So, as long as I remain a boxing fan, I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who knocks James Toney (or Zab Judah) TFO.
He may have some frontal lobe issues given the way he talked after the fight.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Lol I actually find this topic really interesting..
You see here is two big felix Trinidad fans...
One loaths James toney and another loves james toney..
I personally love james toney..He can do no wrong for me.. I find it incredibly entertaining to watch him do his thing..show some attitude,Sit on the ropes and taunt..
None of this would be so entertaining or acceptable to me if he werent such a great fighter though..
I love to watch his style..I understand the talent of using the style.. the counters are very nice to watch..
And Its things like the massive number of fights which he has had, never been stopped rarely dropped..
Before sam peter II its been 13 years since he was dropped by roy..And that was when he was lured in to making himself off balance and hit with a leaping left hook.
And before that..The only real knockdown ive ever seen him take..Was reggie johnson in '91
Thats 18 odd years son!! :o Pretty impressive to say the least..Especially given that he's a true middleweight fighting in every division up to heavyweight..and all the while fighting the best that there was...
Quote james toney.." im just a middleweight..But i got heavyweight nuts" ..Love that.
But yeh his fighting has an old school theme to it..His attitude is entertaining..Im a big toney fan..
But on the other hand me and you we love tito..
And funny thing is i love the way tito does his ring walk..He smiles he dances sometimes..
When he jumps up the ropes after knocking down an opponent ..I love that too..
But im sure you've noticed at some point when tito touches gloves at the begining of a fight..
He bangs his opponents gloves really hard..Gets them pissed off and off theyr game plan..
I love that too...That's some attitude from tito...Another fighter who fought the best always..
James get his opponents off theyr gameplan just aswell..But goes about it because he has less respect for others..
Peace
Bodyhead.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
I think toney's still got it in him. If a fight could be referee'd legitly he'd be facing maskaev and would be one his way to a "legit" heavyweight title.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
I think toney's still got it in him. If a fight could be referee'd legitly he'd be facing maskaev and would be one his way to a "legit" heavyweight title.
I have faith that he'll get at least a heavyweight title before he packs up..
But frankly sam peter will almost definately blow out peter..
And peter bieng the champ means that one..His camp wont take another fight..
And its a shame to say..But you know the rules on a rivalry..whether he should have won the first or not..two in a row makes it over..I say he moves on to beat the rest of the division.
Peace
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
As a fighter: All time great, legend, hall of famer.
As a HW: Was WBA champ, top 3- 5 for a while in a poor HW division, not bad for a former MW. And about any half decent LH beating Ruiz, I think Roy Jones Jr. was a little better than "half decent". ::**
As a person: Toney is a joker. He's a put on. You CANNOT believe everything he says, or really even half the shat he says. He's just a funny, fearless, little fatty who has backed up his smack talk, 90% of the time.
As for his future, by all rights he should probably retire. He didn't get "dominated', or beaten up like some haters are claiming, but he did get outworked and outboxed by a slow clubbing power punching oak who doesn't really know how to box. That ain't a good sign. However I have seen James look THIS bad before, in the Thodes loss at LH or Cruiser, I think LH, about 8 or 9 years ago, he was just flat like he was the other night against Peter. So he could come back, but I don't think there is a big demand for him after that last showing.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
I like Toney, he's a tough bastard. I think alot of his antics are for publicity. His fights are very entertaining whether he's past it or not. I was suprised with his performances against Peter. Both times, he didn't fight the way he normally did. Overall, I think he's way past his best, but still good enough to be in the top 5 heavyweights.
Peter thoroughly beat him the second time, and I actually wanted them to stop the fight because he really didn't have a chance to win and he was taking huge shots. Anyway he's still probably the toughest guy in boxing. But he's slurring his words and I would rather he walked away. But if he doesn't I will still watch his fights, and even if he's fat and out of shape he fights and keeps it interesting. Unlike many of the heavyweights we normally see.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I like Toney, he's a tough bastard. I think alot of his antics are for publicity. His fights are very entertaining whether he's past it or not. I was suprised with his performances against Peter. Both times, he didn't fight the way he normally did. Overall, I think he's way past his best, but still good enough to be in the top 5 heavyweights.
Peter thoroughly beat him the second time, and I actually wanted them to stop the fight because he really didn't have a chance to win and he was taking huge shots. Anyway he's still probably the toughest guy in boxing. But he's slurring his words and I would rather he walked away. But if he doesn't I will still watch his fights, and even if he's fat and out of shape he fights and keeps it interesting. Unlike many of the heavyweights we normally see.
Nerrr man i dispute your scoring..But ive been arguing that all day..so..you know..
But yeh mann toney is the toughest..
lol..Stoppage...Hell no..Dont worry ..Its alway's been hard to understand jamess...Unless he shouts lol.
Peace
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I like Toney, he's a tough B******. I think alot of his antics are for publicity. His fights are very entertaining whether he's past it or not. I was suprised with his performances against Peter. Both times, he didn't fight the way he normally did. Overall, I think he's way past his best, but still good enough to be in the top 5 heavyweights.
Peter thoroughly beat him the second time, and I actually wanted them to stop the fight because he really didn't have a chance to win and he was taking huge shots. Anyway he's still probably the toughest guy in boxing. But he's slurring his words and I would rather he walked away. But if he doesn't I will still watch his fights, and even if he's fat and out of shape he fights and keeps it interesting. Unlike many of the heavyweights we normally see.
Nerrr man i dispute your scoring..But ive been arguing that all day..so..you know..
But yeh mann toney is the toughest..
lol..Stoppage...Hell no..Dont worry ..Its alway's been hard to understand jamess...Unless he shouts lol.
Peace
I read your dispute post. Gotta disagree with you, but it was a good fight. I know Toney would never quit, I just seen it as being so onesided it wasn't worth him taking anymore punches.
And for the record when is the last time you seen Toney bleeding and his eye swollen?? Haven't seen him even look like he's been in a fight for a long time....... His eye didn't swell from getting punched in the back of the head.... Toney got hit with alot of straight punches. And I have never seen Peter throw a straight punch before this fight. Even his jabs before weren't straight, they were backhands.
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Re: James Toney: Fighter, heavyweight, person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I like Toney, he's a tough B******. I think alot of his antics are for publicity. His fights are very entertaining whether he's past it or not. I was suprised with his performances against Peter. Both times, he didn't fight the way he normally did. Overall, I think he's way past his best, but still good enough to be in the top 5 heavyweights.
Peter thoroughly beat him the second time, and I actually wanted them to stop the fight because he really didn't have a chance to win and he was taking huge shots. Anyway he's still probably the toughest guy in boxing. But he's slurring his words and I would rather he walked away. But if he doesn't I will still watch his fights, and even if he's fat and out of shape he fights and keeps it interesting. Unlike many of the heavyweights we normally see.
Nerrr man i dispute your scoring..But ive been arguing that all day..so..you know..
But yeh mann toney is the toughest..
lol..Stoppage...Hell no..Dont worry ..Its alway's been hard to understand jamess...Unless he shouts lol.
Peace
I read your dispute post. Gotta disagree with you, but it was a good fight. I know Toney would never quit, I just seen it as being so onesided it wasn't worth him taking anymore punches.
And for the record when is the last time you seen Toney bleeding and his eye swollen?? Haven't seen him even look like he's been in a fight for a long time....... His eye didn't swell from getting punched in the back of the head.... Toney got hit with alot of straight punches. And I have never seen Peter throw a straight punch before this fight. Even his jabs before weren't straight, they were backhands.
Lol yeh its true...But if im honest..I beleive toney was knocked silly by rabbit punches and his defense suffered later in the fight..
And ohh yeh peter was great with the jab no doubt.. But toney took more in that fight then he should have..But i know toney will never be stopped..Hes indestructible.. lol
But i think wayy too many judges scored for power rather then busyness..
As the case for most fans..They wont pay attention to the boring parts with jus tired jabs and clinching and missed shots..But in those rounds was where toney was busyer so thats where he got em..
In fact if toney was just a tiny bit sharper..He should have prevented peter from round stealing in last minutes..He certainly was..But toney was not sharp from mid point of the fight onwards..And let himself get hit and let the rounds slip..
Peace
