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So I've seen many guys quit in the corner and shit but some are labeled as not having heart and others or not. One example is that Victor Ortiz quit against Maidana and against Lopez and was labeled as not having any heart and as being a quitter in the sport. Daniel Geale has twice told a ref that he didn't wanna continue. Against GGG and against Cotto and no one is saying anything about it. What makes one fighter a quiter and heartless and the other not ?
I think, in this case, it has more to do with the fact that nobody gives a flying fuck about Geale. He was brought in to lose and he did his job, whereas Victor Ortiz was being pushed as the next Oscar de la Hoya and quit against Maidana because, in his words, he was young and didn't deserve to be getting beat up like that - not exactly the words of a champion prizefighter.
There are a lot of degrees of quitting, and quitting takes a lot of different forms. You see a lot of guys quit mentally without actually verbally quitting. Guys go in with a game plan, it doesn't work out, they start getting hit and then they just quit mentally and either look for a nice place to fall on the canvas or go into survival mode to get to the final bell. I've seen many times where I believe quitting was justified - guys who are losing by a landslide, are physically broken and have nothing left in the tank who would just be getting off their stools to take more punishment.
That warrior's spirit can't be taught or learned, you either have it or you don't. That's what separates the men from the boys in boxing.
It also depends how you are doing in the fight. Geale was losing every round and knew by that time he didn't really have a chance to win so he would just keep getting beat up. Being a quitter is when you are in the fight and then quit because it gets too tough. For example, when freitas quit against Corrales. Freitas was winning every round then gets knocked down twice and quits. That's what makes you a quitter.
Geale was weak at the weight so deserves some credit.
There is an old boxing maxim which states, given two men of equal skill and ability but different size, the bigger man wins. Robinson never asked for catches because he was the more skilled man along with many others. You know, the real p4p fighters. Why did the more skilled fighter in Cotto need to weaken the less skilled Geale?
Why does Geale now face the wrath of people for being forced to fight as half a man and then finishing like one?
Well let's be real, it was only round 4. People have come back from worse to win. Geale quit and is a quitter, plain and simple, but that's why he was brought in to fight Cotto. They knew he didn't hit hard and he'd fold under the kind of pressure Cotto could put on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
I think it's more shameful when the (so called) elite quit, like Freitas as you mentioned.
I thought the quit last night was shocking. Wasnt really hurt badly. Could have been completely drained and just had no strenght or energy to throw punches.
I think that geale knew that he was done. He could probably feel the effects of the weight drain and knew that his energy was already gone and he had no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell let's be real, it was only round 4. People have come back from worse to win. Geale quit and is a quitter, plain and simple, but that's why he was brought in to fight Cotto. They knew he didn't hit hard and he'd fold under the kind of pressure Cotto could put on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
I think it's more shameful when the (so called) elite quit, like Freitas as you mentioned.
What happened last night was bad for the image. reputation and integrity of the sport. It calls it into disrepute and makes a mockery of all the brave men that have battled through unbelievable hardship, and seemingly insurmountable odds to pull a victory out of the fire. Still with any luck Canelo will spark the twat out or Golovkin will finally get the chance to retire the bloke for good at a weight not dictated by Michelle Cotto.
Geale surprised me by saying he had enough but then even a few rounds of sparring is unwise and terribly punishing after the equivalent of a bad bout of diarrhea or a similar dehydrating unnecessary loss of weight.
I think in some cases quitting begins long before the opening bell. I don't know what is in a man's heart but Geale had that look on the ring walk.
That.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
@Greenbeanz you know I have alot of respect for your opinion on here but you're acting like Cotto is the first guy to have ever done this. Manny Pacquiao made Cotto drop weight under the 147 limit despite fighting at that limit before. Before that he made his name beating the corpse of the dehydrated Oscar De La Hoya. He also won a light-middleweight title at 150 so he could call himself an "8 division world champion" against a cheating fucker who should have been kicked out of the sport instead of making alot of money in another prize fight. Yet Pacquiao is hailed as one of the greatest things to happen to the sport. Cotto didn't invent it, but if it was acceptable for Pacquiao then why not maximise your bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The "Michael Spinks" syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Duran was the most popular boxer to have quit.
Boxing is the toughest sport in the world..people quit in other sports so perhaps we should really be a bit more lenient to those that quit in the ring considering your life is on the line.
Fair point and I have as usual my tongue halfway in cheek when I say it but it does stick in the throat. I have respect for Cotto's ability as any boxing fan would, even now. As a bloke though he has always come across as a bit of a dick and the humble pie schtick always seemed like just that, schtick, an act, now the veneer has dropped and it's more obvious. You are right Manny was also a diva for asking Cotto to drop to 145 for the WBO and some Diamond bollocky belt but if anything that should be more reason fro Cotto to be consistent and demand that his opponents not be put through the same BS as he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn@Greenbeanz you know I have alot of respect for your opinion on here but you're acting like Cotto is the first guy to have ever done this. Manny Pacquiao made Cotto drop weight under the 147 limit despite fighting at that limit before. Before that he made his name beating the corpse of the dehydrated Oscar De La Hoya. He also won a light-middleweight title at 150 so he could call himself an "8 division world champion" against a cheating fucker who should have been kicked out of the sport instead of making alot of money in another prize fight. Yet Pacquiao is hailed as one of the greatest things to happen to the sport. Cotto didn't event it, but if it was acceptable for Pacquiao then why not maximise your bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The catchweight alone is not the real problem even though it stinks, it's the fact that it is for a belt that the most dominant middleweight for a long time really wants to fight for, and the chance for that same guy to become lineal champ. Cotto could drop it and still fight Canelo, who again is not a middleweight, and yet he again is asking for special treatment and even openly admitting he is not a middleweight and virtually dismissing GGG and his achievements by ignoring the elephant in the room. It sucks donkey's balls and just eats away at Cotto's own legacy.
But what did Cotto get for that? Did people say it was BS, or does history just remember that Manny beat the snot out of him and went on to make a boat load of money. So if Cotto receives no sympathy from fans for that then why not make money from doing the same thing? FFS there are blinded people on here who believe that Margarito beat Cotto fair and square and criticise the stoppage in the rematch. I fully understand your point on Golovkin, but he will get his belt eventually. The WBC have already told Cotto he can only delay for Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzFair point and I have as usual my tongue halfway in cheek when I say it but it does stick in the throat. I have respect for Cotto's ability as any boxing fan would, even now. As a bloke though he has always come across as a bit of a dick and the humble pie schtick always seemed like just that, schtick, an act, now the veneer has dropped and it's more obvious. You are right Manny was also a diva for asking Cotto to drop to 145 for the WBO and some Diamond bollocky belt but if anything that should be more reason fro Cotto to be consistent and demand that his opponents not be put through the same BS as he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn@Greenbeanz you know I have alot of respect for your opinion on here but you're acting like Cotto is the first guy to have ever done this. Manny Pacquiao made Cotto drop weight under the 147 limit despite fighting at that limit before. Before that he made his name beating the corpse of the dehydrated Oscar De La Hoya. He also won a light-middleweight title at 150 so he could call himself an "8 division world champion" against a cheating fucker who should have been kicked out of the sport instead of making alot of money in another prize fight. Yet Pacquiao is hailed as one of the greatest things to happen to the sport. Cotto didn't event it, but if it was acceptable for Pacquiao then why not maximise your bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The catchweight alone is not the real problem even though it stinks, it's the fact that it is for a belt that the most dominant middleweight for a long time really wants to fight for, and the chance for that same guy to become lineal champ. Cotto could drop it and still fight Canelo, who again is not a middleweight, and yet he again is asking for special treatment and even openly admitting he is not a middleweight and virtually dismissing GGG and his achievements by ignoring the elephant in the room. It sucks donkey's balls and just eats away at Cotto's own legacy.
Quitting comes in different ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Freitas quit like a bitch
Victor Ortiz Imo didn't outright quit, rather he got the fIght beaten out of him.
Tyson biting Evander's 2nd ear was the apex of a bully-exposed as a cowardly-quitter.
Erik Morales vs Pac 3 was a warrior exposed as an aged fighter with nothing left to give-nothing left to prove by sitting on his buttocks looking at his corner with a look of "fuck this...I ain't got it in me mo':-\ "
A quote can be found on the internet of an amateur fighter saying to his corner:
Throw in the towel.
His corner relied, there is no towel, give it one more round.
The fighter said well fuck it, throw the bucket! I quit!
Q-U-I-T-T-I-N-G
Sometimes, nothin' can be a real cool hand.
There will always be another day.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes nothin', can be a real 'cool hand."
'Cool Hand Luke'
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I am one of those guys that think, well not think but KNOW, Margarito beat Cotto fair & square. He made him kneel in surrender by beating the heck out of himQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnBut what did Cotto get for that? Did people say it was BS, or does history just remember that Manny beat the snot out of him and went on to make a boat load of money. So if Cotto receives no sympathy from fans for that then why not make money from doing the same thing? FFS there are blinded people on here who believe that Margarito beat Cotto fair and square and criticise the stoppage in the rematch. I fully understand your point on Golovkin, but he will get his belt eventually. The WBC have already told Cotto he can only delay for Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzFair point and I have as usual my tongue halfway in cheek when I say it but it does stick in the throat. I have respect for Cotto's ability as any boxing fan would, even now. As a bloke though he has always come across as a bit of a dick and the humble pie schtick always seemed like just that, schtick, an act, now the veneer has dropped and it's more obvious. You are right Manny was also a diva for asking Cotto to drop to 145 for the WBO and some Diamond bollocky belt but if anything that should be more reason fro Cotto to be consistent and demand that his opponents not be put through the same BS as he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn@Greenbeanz you know I have alot of respect for your opinion on here but you're acting like Cotto is the first guy to have ever done this. Manny Pacquiao made Cotto drop weight under the 147 limit despite fighting at that limit before. Before that he made his name beating the corpse of the dehydrated Oscar De La Hoya. He also won a light-middleweight title at 150 so he could call himself an "8 division world champion" against a cheating fucker who should have been kicked out of the sport instead of making alot of money in another prize fight. Yet Pacquiao is hailed as one of the greatest things to happen to the sport. Cotto didn't event it, but if it was acceptable for Pacquiao then why not maximise your bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The catchweight alone is not the real problem even though it stinks, it's the fact that it is for a belt that the most dominant middleweight for a long time really wants to fight for, and the chance for that same guy to become lineal champ. Cotto could drop it and still fight Canelo, who again is not a middleweight, and yet he again is asking for special treatment and even openly admitting he is not a middleweight and virtually dismissing GGG and his achievements by ignoring the elephant in the room. It sucks donkey's balls and just eats away at Cotto's own legacy.
And yes Margarito was set to repeat the process in the rematch despite only having one good eye. The doc waited till Margarito was coming on & beating his chest at Cotto & Cotto was slumped in his corner looking beaten to stop the fight. Even though he knew Margarito had only one good eye from round 2. That fight was stopped to save cotto the embarrassment of Quitting AGAIN!!!!!!!
Cotto saved his own career by refusing to continue getting hit with plaster casts. Turned out to be a good decision, as he's resurrected his career while Margacheato is all but forgotten. Fight 2 turned into a boxing lesson, after which Cotto looked at Cheato like one looks at a dog turd one has inadvertently stepped on. History will not look kindly upon Tony.
More excuses and crybaby shit. Did you ever do anything else? Cotto beat his ass. Man up to the truth. You won't get far in life making excuses for everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockI am one of those guys that think, well not think but KNOW, Margarito beat Cotto fair & square. He made him kneel in surrender by beating the heck out of himQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnBut what did Cotto get for that? Did people say it was BS, or does history just remember that Manny beat the snot out of him and went on to make a boat load of money. So if Cotto receives no sympathy from fans for that then why not make money from doing the same thing? FFS there are blinded people on here who believe that Margarito beat Cotto fair and square and criticise the stoppage in the rematch. I fully understand your point on Golovkin, but he will get his belt eventually. The WBC have already told Cotto he can only delay for Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzFair point and I have as usual my tongue halfway in cheek when I say it but it does stick in the throat. I have respect for Cotto's ability as any boxing fan would, even now. As a bloke though he has always come across as a bit of a dick and the humble pie schtick always seemed like just that, schtick, an act, now the veneer has dropped and it's more obvious. You are right Manny was also a diva for asking Cotto to drop to 145 for the WBO and some Diamond bollocky belt but if anything that should be more reason fro Cotto to be consistent and demand that his opponents not be put through the same BS as he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn@Greenbeanz you know I have alot of respect for your opinion on here but you're acting like Cotto is the first guy to have ever done this. Manny Pacquiao made Cotto drop weight under the 147 limit despite fighting at that limit before. Before that he made his name beating the corpse of the dehydrated Oscar De La Hoya. He also won a light-middleweight title at 150 so he could call himself an "8 division world champion" against a cheating fucker who should have been kicked out of the sport instead of making alot of money in another prize fight. Yet Pacquiao is hailed as one of the greatest things to happen to the sport. Cotto didn't event it, but if it was acceptable for Pacquiao then why not maximise your bank account?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
The catchweight alone is not the real problem even though it stinks, it's the fact that it is for a belt that the most dominant middleweight for a long time really wants to fight for, and the chance for that same guy to become lineal champ. Cotto could drop it and still fight Canelo, who again is not a middleweight, and yet he again is asking for special treatment and even openly admitting he is not a middleweight and virtually dismissing GGG and his achievements by ignoring the elephant in the room. It sucks donkey's balls and just eats away at Cotto's own legacy.
And yes Margarito was set to repeat the process in the rematch despite only having one good eye. The doc waited till Margarito was coming on & beating his chest at Cotto & Cotto was slumped in his corner looking beaten to stop the fight. Even though he knew Margarito had only one good eye from round 2. That fight was stopped to save cotto the embarrassment of Quitting AGAIN!!!!!!!
Only idiots who love cheaters really respect Pacquiao. True fans of the sport remember all the times he bent the rules or outright broke them with his PED use. Complete boxing scum!!! Doesn't make it okay for Cotto to do it. In fact, it makes Cotto look bad and that's why we're seeing this mini backlash against him because he's pussying out.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
If Pacquiao indeed was on PED's how come Ariza hasn't said so, even after Manny fired him and he went to work with Floyd?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
Ariza won't incriminate himself. Why would he?
Besides, Roach already revealed that he knows Manny was dirty.
Roach revealed Manny was dirty cmon man we both know that didn't happen
Plus it wouldn't damage Ariza's chances of working with his current client he hired Heredia for hecks sake!
Good post. I watched the cotto geale fight and soon as he said he didn't want to continue I shouted fucking coward at my TV. It's shocking to see any boxer quit under any circumstances IMO. Boxing is a hard sport when the going gets tough you can't just quit and if you do quit I think it's time to seriously find another sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
He did actually @Truth. Indirectly, and possibly by accident (Roach isn't very smart). Here's the quote from the interview where he accidentally throws Manny (and himself) under the bus while trying to ruin Ariza:Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
"One of the reasons I don't work with him [Ariza] anymore is he's a little shady. He used to give Manny a drink before workouts, and I asked him what was in the drink and he would never tell me. I told him I need to know what was in the drinks because you're giving it to my fighter. If something goes wrong, I'm going to get the blame. So in my opinion, he's a little shady. So he's in that champ [Brandon Rios] now and it doesn't surprise me that [Rios testing positive for a banned substance] happened."
Ariza was Pac's strength and conditioning coach throughout Pac's meteoric 5 year rise from 130lbs to 154lbs super stardom...and he hasn't scored a KO since Ariza left. FACT!
Bruce Seldon's performance against Tyson was disgraceful
The part that shocks me about the way Geale quit is that both times he makes the count then says he doesn't wanna continue. If he wants out just don't make the count , save some face instead of outright saying he doesn't want anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Good post. I watched the cotto geale fight and soon as he said he didn't want to continue I shouted fucking coward at my TV. It's shocking to see any boxer quit under any circumstances IMO. Boxing is a hard sport when the going gets tough you can't just quit and if you do quit I think it's time to seriously find another sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
I hadn't thought of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012The part that shocks me about the way Geale quit is that both times he makes the count then says he doesn't wanna continue. If he wants out just don't make the count , save some face instead of outright saying he doesn't want anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Good post. I watched the cotto geale fight and soon as he said he didn't want to continue I shouted fucking coward at my TV. It's shocking to see any boxer quit under any circumstances IMO. Boxing is a hard sport when the going gets tough you can't just quit and if you do quit I think it's time to seriously find another sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
Apparently, neither had Geale.
Because Freddy didn't know what was in Manny's drink doesn't mean he's on PED's. I have a healthy amount of suspicion that all top fighters are on something. But there's still never been any proof that manny did anything illegal. And the he hasn't scored a KO since is such a poor excuse, the Algieri fight could have easily been stopped. So if Floyd Sr didn't know what Ariza put in Floyd's drink Floyd would be on PEDs. Plus there are no rumors that Pacquiao ever tested positive. Thomas Hauser has written about an allegedly failed drug test by Floyd. Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part OneQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoHe did actually @Truth. Indirectly, and possibly by accident (Roach isn't very smart). Here's the quote from the interview where he accidentally throws Manny (and himself) under the bus while trying to ruin Ariza:Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
"One of the reasons I don't work with him [Ariza] anymore is he's a little shady. He used to give Manny a drink before workouts, and I asked him what was in the drink and he would never tell me. I told him I need to know what was in the drinks because you're giving it to my fighter. If something goes wrong, I'm going to get the blame. So in my opinion, he's a little shady. So he's in that champ [Brandon Rios] now and it doesn't surprise me that [Rios testing positive for a banned substance] happened."
Ariza was Pac's strength and conditioning coach throughout Pac's meteoric 5 year rise from 130lbs to 154lbs super stardom...and he hasn't scored a KO since Ariza left. FACT!
Plus Rios failed his test for a DIURETIC (to help him lose weight) and we can both be sure that Ariza wasn't giving diuretics to Manny.
Charles 'Sonny' Liston
But he made is so obvious. It was like he wanted people to know that he quit.
He didn't even try to 'fake it'.
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Pac never failed a drug test because he wasn't truly being tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthBecause Freddy didn't know what was in Manny's drink doesn't mean he's on PED's. I have a healthy amount of suspicion that all top fighters are on something. But there's still never been any proof that manny did anything illegal. And the he hasn't scored a KO since is such a poor excuse, the Algieri fight could have easily been stopped. So if Floyd Sr didn't know what Ariza put in Floyd's drink Floyd would be on PEDs. Plus there are no rumors that Pacquiao ever tested positive. Thomas Hauser has written about an allegedly failed drug test by Floyd. Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part OneQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoHe did actually @Truth . Indirectly, and possibly by accident (Roach isn't very smart). Here's the quote from the interview where he accidentally throws Manny (and himself) under the bus while trying to ruin Ariza:Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth
"One of the reasons I don't work with him [Ariza] anymore is he's a little shady. He used to give Manny a drink before workouts, and I asked him what was in the drink and he would never tell me. I told him I need to know what was in the drinks because you're giving it to my fighter. If something goes wrong, I'm going to get the blame. So in my opinion, he's a little shady. So he's in that champ [Brandon Rios] now and it doesn't surprise me that [Rios testing positive for a banned substance] happened."
Ariza was Pac's strength and conditioning coach throughout Pac's meteoric 5 year rise from 130lbs to 154lbs super stardom...and he hasn't scored a KO since Ariza left. FACT!
Poor little Pactards have trouble understanding even the most basic subjects...
Rocco the Ruthless,
Are you still talking about Mr. Manny Pacquiao and his take of $165,000,000 for the Mayweather bout.
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