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Any good workouts to increase the speed you are ducking and slipping at ?
I feel pretty strong , im just over 12 stone.. but when it comes to dodging and slipping i feel really sluggish and slow, ive been doing weights for 3 years and boxing 1.5 , but just feel so unconfident in dodging, id love to get the tyson movements going =]
ita all about timing and correct technique.
Move from your Knees and shoulders rather than your head and waist and move as the shot is about to be thrown. not during.
Just relax, if you get clipped you get clipped its all about moving confidently.
shadow box and just work on head movement or get someone to throw slow punches at you and dodge them then speed it up over time.
Are you in a boxing gym? I'm sure they'll work with you on dodging and whatnot. ;)
Good points!Also some points:Quote:
Originally Posted by spagy
If your trying to slip a left jab to your right, practice throwing a straight left
to the left side of your opponents body, then weave back with a short right to
to the left side of your targets "chops".Or if you want to slip inside throw or pretend to throw a right to the heart. follow that up with a hook to the liver or chin.
Another slipping training move -
Be tricky - block the jab, block the jab then slip to the left, then slip to the right
Then mix it up block, block, block, slip (hours of fun can be had by one and all
with all the thousands of combinations of defensive moves).
A rare but great and risky move is the cross parry, if it works, a well executed right hand
should do a number, if you miss it could leave you on dangerous ground.
what you are describing here is what i call an "element of randomess" glad to see this brought up. throughout my experiences with boxing i had always attempted to rationalize it as a perfectly deterministic system, that is to say, all reactions are known and can be predicted with absolute certainty. imagine the look on my face when i found out how wrong i was! something like this i think it wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Zelley
:beatup:
you see i was under the false assumption that -- according to game theory -- boxing was a zero sum game with perfect information. let me just say now while i am on the subject it would be wise for you all to read up a bit on game theory which is a branch of mathematics that focuses on stratgegy. always a good idea to become framiliar with the works that have been published on the subject of strategy. anyway back to my point, while it is true that boxing is a zero sum game (one can only win by "dealing damage" to his opponent), it cant quite be considered a game with perfect information (all moves are known to both players as they happen: chess, tic tac toe). this is because things happen so quickly one cannot possibly, say, jab his opponent, wait to see what his reaction is, stop, digest the information, then figure out what to do next. things move to fast in boxing to go through this process. when i actually jab my opponent he has several possible reactions at his disposal that he can choose from: he can slip to either side, counter jab, parry, etc etc. all of which i am not in actual control over. that is to say, if i want him to counter my jab with a straight right, so i can in turn counter his straight right with my own stright right to his solar plexus as his body turns to punch, i cant actually make him react this way. that option is up to him and if he doesnt choose it, my counter punch doesnt land.
:-\
i was pretty upset upon the discovery of this. after all it completely flew in the face of what my concept of boxing strategy had been up to that point. was boxing really just some random punch fest i had no actual control over? this whole time i had been trying to explain the world of boxing, bringing reason into a seemlingly chaotic system only few men have ever figured out. it all seemed to be slipping away. but just as it is with everything else in life, you eventually learn from your mistakes. you see this finding eventually made me realize that in boxing, one must systematically limit the "element of randomness" that is your opponent. this is the key to landing punches. it is true you cannot make him react the way you want him to everytime with absolute certainty but you can limit his options. by this i mean, when i jab he has several choices to react back with, but by showing him advantage and disadvantage i can manipulate what reactions he chooses ever so indirectly. if i leave my parry hand off of my face the chances increase that he will attempt a counter jab in response (advantage). if counetr his straight right with my own straight right to his solar plexus he no longer will throw his straight right (disadvantage) and he is forced to choose a different reaction. this process continues until my opponent is so limited in what he can do that he becomes almost absolutley predicatble. you see by doing these things i can indirectly influence what i want him to do. understanding things in this manner, my opponent can only do to me, only that which i allow and he is random no more.
And theres more :) But rarley learned or trained for in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasTabin
You can with 'practice'accomplish slipping with control over their balance point (elbow); while controling their arms with your gloves or forearms, utilizing control over their lead arm as you revolve around the elbow point as your footwork takes your body movement out or behind so as to reposition yourself into saftey and have the next attack clear .
You practice the block or slip or both, maintaining contact
(so you can feel their reaction) while utilizing the moment of control while gaining clear ground.(or do it in reverse! moving further in to the mix) if done the other way around (going from the outside to between their arms) but thats only for those times when you are pounding /and they are evading but caught on ropes and you are out to finish it.
To slip your head around an arm can get you from fighting on the inside to fighting on the outside or visa versa.
As can just moving the opponents arm across yourslef while adjusting your stance.
Here you create new openings and with correct footwork you can crack them as they are forced to adjust to your new position.
This is rarely done, unfortunatley, but if you practice with a sparring partner you can become fighters with contact reflexes built into your forearms so you can follow and have a moment of control over some movments.
(but you have to back yourself up with foot placement and you have to move to the opening and attack up it).
It can be built on too further as well, for instance if I want to gain an (outside the lead arm positon) I could push from the inside and as their reaction is to force against the push ,that is where I slip it so he helps me through his initial reaction;(I push out /he pushes inwards /I help him go inwards as I move out /cause that was my plan the whole time!
That can be utilized in just body movment ,arm movment or both,to gain a better position,but you do have to back it up with footwork.
Heh Thomas, nice post =]
Recently, I was explaining to some non-boxing folks on another site
about trickery in techniques. Like you appear to be moving away, but you are moving forward. The opponent gives chase, but falls into your striking distance.
Instead of it being a rear-end collision with you being the hapless victim, it becomes a head-on with your opponent's face and your fist colliding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poom
Your stomach muscles determine how fast and agile you are with your ducking
There are so many ways to practice slipping and rolling Ill give you one, an idea that is.Get some 2 by 1 wood 2 =4 fts and2=18 ins, Screw the 18" onto the 4! to make a T peice , tape the wood onto corner post Corner to corner of ring.Put elastic rope across the ring 2 times 12" apart tied to T peice shoulder height Away you go, as you move back or forward touch your ears on both ropes or role under ropes while turning. You can spend hours working on skills to implement movement, have a lot of fun, and not get hurt motor skills
You can build the strength as much as you like, but it won't stop you being sluggish. Tyson didn't get his explosive bobbing and weaving style by squatting hundreds of kilos, he got it by doing a heck of a lot of shadowboxing and by repeating the moves over and over, where he'd duck, bobb, weave and strike a counter. When doing these drills, try and concentrate on the speed of your novements, rather than the force you're exerting with your muscles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poom
I've been boxing training since around christmas, but, like you, have been weight training for a while longer. There are only so many hours a week you can train so you need to prioritise your excercises in your routine. If your goal is to get faster with your movements I'd recommend changing the emphasis of your training towards shadowboxing, sparring etc.
However you don't need to neglect your weights completely, as strength can be an asset in boxing also.
thx everyone for responses, alot of them were v helpful, especially the comments about relaxing.
I wrote this post about 3 months ago , since then i have been training boxing alot more seriously talking to trainers more etc, Ive cut my weight training to once a week if that.
Just been running and doing normal boxing stuff alot, sparring, millions of situps , shadowboxing, and i feel about 200% faster back when i did weights. I have actually lost half a stone and now i feel alot more flexible and quicker.
I didn't check the dates, that weird post on trickery seemed to bump it. anyway glad the training's paying off.
Just been running and doing normal boxing stuff alot, sparring, millions of situps , shadowboxing, and i feel about 200% faster back when i did weights. I have actually lost half a stone and now i feel alot more flexible and quicker.
I noticed too when I would lift weights for a day that when I went on the heavybag I was throwing faster and so much harder punches with more of a "pop" on them instead of just my normal punches. It might just work for me, but I do recommend throwing in some weight lifting at times.
Another little game you can have a lot of fun with,You with a partner. Put a rope across the Ring below ear hight, stand facing each other. Moving along the rope shadowboxing each other,try kidding each other to try and get the opposite side of the rope from your partner. Two evenly matched fighters can learn the mechanics of movement,distance,levels and laterel movement, take it in turnto try and bluff each other.Good fun ,gets you fit