Bob n Weave -- Bend at the hips or knees?

Hearing different things. I read the Jack Dempsey book and he says to bend almost exclusively at the hips. He makes a point to say that you should bend your knees as little as possible. But now I'm paging through the fighting fit book and it says the opposite.

Unfortunately I don't have a boxing trainer. My background is in Muay Thai, and this is a technique that was never taught to me, but I'm very eager to understand. Thanks for any insight.

I'd say a bit of both, bend at the knees (not too much) and twisy at the hips. Never thouhht about it too much, I make sure im balancef, relaxed and on my toes and just focus on putting my shoulders where I want them and the rest follows.

Bend at the Hips you lose Oral Balance, at the Knees you dont. A little thing you can try, stand with your back against the wall, shoulders ,Heels, Hips touching. Now try moving your Hips, 6% thats all you will get, its in the Knees and Feet.

Thanks guys.

Is the upperbody still pretty much upright in the bob and weave? If not, approx what angle would you say its at in relation to the pelvis? Sorry for being a detail nazi, just kind of a slow learner :bawling:

Chin in line with your Bollocks ;D

Hehe, when you can suck yourself off you're at the perfect angle. :rolleyes: Joking aside, you need a bit of both, personally if I bend too much in the knees I lose balance because I move around a lot while fighting. Never standing still. So I bend more at the hips. A bit of both, plenty of angle. Practice with a piece of wood or a pipe sticking out from a wall at around waist/stomach height. Should prove useful.

That should read Horizontal.

Getting me at it Vertical :rolleyes:

also if your bending at the hips your giving your opponent a reach advantage if he aims for your head everytime you do it, aswell as setting yourself up for being fed an uppercut on your way down, also the proper bio mechanics of hooks are lost when doing this which means your fighting against your bodys joints to throw the hooks while bent at the hips which will tire you much faster while producing a much slower and weaker shot so you can say goodbye to effective punching or counter punching while weaving this way, and most importantly if done too much you cant fully see what your opponent is doing

P.S also it puts you off balance which generally makes the whole thing slow and clumbsy, the ladys not for weaving using the hips ;D

Hey Man

I'm with Scrap. If you bend at the knees, you can still throw shots. If you bend at the waist, you are largely ineffective. For ducking, look here. For slipping, look here.

Cheers

Fran

Not intending for dispute, here's a post that reiterates what Dempsey wrote in his book:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

I know that Dempsey loved to lean away and under from punches by moving his upper body back towards his right. It loaded up his right hand and made him extremely hard to reach. The Dempsey roll would come after. With his upper-body positioned over towards his right side (which by the way he stood was behind him - he stood almost sideways) he would weave low so that weight would be over his left leg. This movement slipped punches and allowed him to load up on his left hook.

The whole theme of this is to make the opponent miss whilst putting the body's weight in a position to strike. If you notice of Dempsey, he always had full leverage on every punch. You must start out in a stance similar to his to do that.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

Dempsey did it in every fight. He was also hard to hit and had very underrated defense. Too bad that because he liked to press forward he gets billed as being some kind of a savage incapable of thought. He was pretty cagey in my opinion.

As for the move it doesn't limit your vision. I'm not sure how it would. And you're right that it leaves you in a position where you can't punch but only for the left hand. If you've seen any Dempsey you know that he likes to spring up from that crouch with a right hand. Dempsey hit pretty hard last I remember.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2...8200211yg5.jpg

He looks pretty open but know that Dempsey's upper-body was constantly moving and he used a shoulder roll. Tunney as quoted saying that Dempsey was one of the hardest fighters to hit with his right. Kept catching air or shoulder.

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True as thomas tabin says dempsey could punch pretty hard the way he did it, but that doesnt mean that he couldnt have punched even harder, not everyone is a dempsey and not everyone could throw punches like him, but what really makes you think is how hard could these fighters have hit had they have used propper biomechanics.

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Originally Posted by WayneFlint

True as thomas tabin says dempsey could punch pretty hard the way he did it, but that doesnt mean that he couldnt have punched even harder, not everyone is a dempsey and not everyone could throw punches like him, but what really makes you think is how hard could these fighters have hit had they have used propper biomechanics.

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This brings me back to my question about "is Dempsey right" (in his book) -- and it applies to any of the other older authors for that matter.

Most of the knowledgeable folks here seemed to agree that Dempsey got almost all of it right, so I am very interested when anyone can demonstrate -- or even make a plausible case -- for something he wrote being incorrect. (As opposed to something he did in the ring once, or even habitually -- everyone has bad habits or makes mistakes.)

Dempsey definitely believe that HIS WAY of PUNCHING was MUCH stronger.

Is it?

Do we have evidence against that (or even for it)?

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HerbM

PS: My boxing coach disapproves of the "falling step punch" which powers Dempsey's "left jolt" replacement for a "left jab" (which can also be used for the straight right but it's more critical on the lead hand).

I must practice this ONLY when he isn't around or I do a LOT OF PUSH-UPS to correct my mistake. :D

I also try to practice it so subtly that no one can tell what I am doing but yet I still get the weight transfer into the punch.

Im not saying what he did was wrong because he won fights so he must have been doing somthing right, what im saying is he could have hit harder in my opinion given the use of good posture, dempsey was a gifted puncher and i think someone less gifted than himself would struggle to pull off the kind of shots he does while still producing powerful punches, some people can hit hard however they hit but for the rest of us we have to rely on propper bio mechanics to deal damaging shots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WayneFlint

Im not saying what he did was wrong because he won fights so he must have been doing somthing right, what im saying is he could have hit harder in my opinion given the use of good posture, dempsey was a gifted puncher and i think someone less gifted than himself would struggle to pull off the kind of shots he does while still producing powerful punches, some people can hit hard however they hit but for the rest of us we have to rely on propper bio mechanics to deal damaging shots.

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And I am not arguing with you -- Dempsey however says the opposite in his book and goes into some detail about why he is correct.

I was hoping to get specifics if you (or anyone) disagreed with him.

Remember, there is a difference between "Dempsey the Boxer" and "Dempsey the Boxing Coach". The latter spent quite some time getting his detailing in his book what he thought was correct technique and why he thought it worked.

What specifically would you change in Dempsey's description of a power jab? (His "left jolt".)