-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
I think Bernstein accurately put it around the 7th round that the fight had started a round ago. :D
Waaayyy too tentative for the first entire half of the fight... and Lubin did precious little to try and impress.
I thought Gausha decided halfway through he wasn't in real danger of a highlight reel knockout and began to press the action, winning somewhere from 1-3 rounds.
Crap fight.
Thank goodness I had already seen the Tug-Breedy fight. ;D
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
@TitoFan I saw your paisano Pedraza won. He looked pretty impressive. He just can’t get over that hump though. He is just below world class
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
@
TitoFan I saw your paisano Pedraza won. He looked pretty impressive. He just can’t get over that hump though. He is just below world class
Yep... that is a good description. He inhabits that area where there just isn't room for him at the very elite level. This also happens to fighters who sometimes have the bad fortune of coexisting with a slew of top notch talent in one division.
Pedraza's a good guy and very dedicated. I hope he can continue to make a mark on boxing for awhile.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Ennis turning it up in 5th jarring Abreu and lands hard on the beltline, Abreu looks for a time out and ref says keep fighting. In turn Abreu hits Ennis in his Ennis Jr and both warned. Ennis walking in behind high shoulder guard and landing left hooks..and down he goes. Abreu flat and up at 8! Abreu not long for this. Beautiful inside right uppercut counter got the KD, very fluid
thats how steve forbes knocked out julio sanchez leon.
https://i.imgur.com/uq49u8w.gif
a while ago it used to be that, if you missed a right hand, you'd bring your right arm across your face, sort of like a face bar, so you could catch that counter in palm of your right glove.
https://i.imgur.com/kG5Nilr.gif
if you watch all the old fights you will see guys doing that often. i think it might have something to do with how fighters used to throw that counter more often. it is nice to see someone that can still do that today, even if no one else knows how to keep from getting hit by it today.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Ennis turning it up in 5th jarring Abreu and lands hard on the beltline, Abreu looks for a time out and ref says keep fighting. In turn Abreu hits Ennis in his Ennis Jr and both warned. Ennis walking in behind high shoulder guard and landing left hooks..and down he goes. Abreu flat and up at 8! Abreu not long for this. Beautiful inside right uppercut counter got the KD, very fluid
thats how steve forbes knocked out julio sanchez leon.
https://i.imgur.com/uq49u8w.gif
a while ago it used to be that, if you missed a right hand, you'd bring your right arm across your face, sort of like a face bar, so you could catch that counter in palm of your right glove.
https://i.imgur.com/kG5Nilr.gif
if you watch all the old fights you will see guys doing that often. i think it might have something to do with how fighters used to throw that counter more often. it is nice to see someone that can still do that today, even if no one else knows how to keep from getting hit by it today.
Nice comparison between the two shots. However, my thoughts on the bottom one is that the guy throwing the right hand isn't doing so with any conviction and is almost expecting the upper counter..... so in effect he isn't putting much behind the right hand because he's avoiding the momentum that will leave him open for the counter. Instead, it looks like a shortened right hand immediately followed by the defensive position underneath the chin.
In the top picture Sanchez sold out on the huge right hand..... and kudos to Forbes for having the ability to lean away from it while maintaining his feet in position to deliver the classic counter.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
i think if you have enough time to get hit with that counter, you have enough time to catch it in your right glove.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.
But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.
But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."
since the counter and catch both occur after the shoulder roll, your cue would be when you feel him shoulder roll, not after you finish throwing your right hand. in other words, when you feel him shoulder roll you have as much time to catch it as he has to throw it.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Sanchez hadn't even finished his right hand swing, when Forbes' counter uppercut was on its way back to him.
But ok... we'll agree to disagree in that you feel Sanchez had time to "catch it with his right glove."
since the counter and catch both occur after the shoulder roll, your cue would be when you feel him shoulder roll, not after you finish throwing your right hand. in other words, when you feel him shoulder roll you have as much time to catch it as he has to throw it.
I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.
In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.
In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.
i think marciano brings his forearm over his face because he knew he missed and also because he knew he was fighting archie moore.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'll just give Forbes the credit he deserves by rolling away from the punch and beginning his own counter before the follow through from Sanchez had even concluded.
In the old B&W you showed, that was a tentative right hand with no ill intent... stopped halfway through in order to protect his own chin.
i think marciano brings his forearm over his face because he knew he missed and also because he knew he was fighting archie moore.
It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.
however hard you threw your right hand, when you missed, you'd bring your forearm over your face and cover up.
https://i.imgur.com/7AgCdSb.gif
that was one of the prevailing customs you'd see from the fighters back then but its just another relic now. it is the only thing that will stop you from falling onto a counter right uppercut. that was true then and i think its still true now.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
It was still a weak, tentative right hand. Unusual for Marciano who threw his punches with conviction. Basically pulled up on the punch and assumed a defensive position. Yeah... probably because he knew he was fighting Archie Moore.
however hard you threw your right hand, when you missed, you'd bring your forearm over your face and cover up.
https://i.imgur.com/7AgCdSb.gif
that was one of the prevailing customs you'd see from the fighters back then but its just another relic now. it is the only thing that will stop you from falling onto a counter right uppercut. that was true then and i think its still true now.
Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.
i wanted to show you how fast you can bring your forearm over your face to cover up since you can do that much quicker than you are implying.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Difference being the opponent in this latest gif is going completely backward. In no time was the puncher in danger of getting countered. In the Forbes example, he "textbooked" the defense... then threw a perfectly timed uppercut that would've gotten to the mark even had Sanched tried to cover his chin with his right hand after throwing the punch.
i wanted to show you how fast you can bring your forearm over your face to cover up since you can do that much quicker than you are implying.
Put a clock on the Forbes-Sanchez gif and measure the time between the Sanchez miss and the Forbes counter.
Something else to consider is the physics of the punch Sanchez threw. He threw the punch with conviction. Meaning the follow through was a bit long. Forbes expertly remained close enough to where the uppercut was right there.
If you could slow down the action, you'd see the upper connects even before Sanchez's right hand has finished its follow through.
The only way Sanchez could've mimicked the glove-to-chin defense you keep mentioning would've been to cut the right hand short, which would've reduced its intended impact.
He would've been braking the right hand in order to have time to block his chin.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
i think youre exaggerating how much time it takes to bring up your glove.
https://i.imgur.com/psobkqy.gif
you can throw your right hand with follow through and conviction and still get your glove up pretty quick. your arm doesnt really have to travel very much.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
i think youre exaggerating how much time it takes to bring up your glove.
https://i.imgur.com/psobkqy.gif
you can throw your right hand with follow through and conviction and still get your glove up pretty quick. your arm doesnt really have to travel very much.
Right. Another clip where the counter takes a month to arrive.
Hey no issues. I stand by my opinion. Instead of saying Sanchez had enough time to get his right hand under his chin... I prefer to commend Forbes for a picture-perfect right uppercut counter.
Sanchez was perfectly placed (for Forbes) at the end of his punch... he had committed... and hadn't even brought his right hand all the way back when Forbes connected.
Every other video you've posted the opponent was either walking straight back, or took their time throwing their own counter. Of course the arm-across-the-chin defense will work.
Most of the time I agree with your technical breakdowns, but this time I don't. No big deal.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
In that last video clip, Forbes counter upper would've still arrived before the guy's glove was tucked under his chin.
Timing.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Right. Another clip where the counter takes a month to arrive.
Hey no issues. I stand by my opinion. Instead of saying Sanchez had enough time to get his right hand under his chin... I prefer to commend Forbes for a picture-perfect right uppercut counter.
Sanchez was perfectly placed (for Forbes) at the end of his punch... he had committed... and hadn't even brought his right hand all the way back when Forbes connected.
Every other video you've posted the opponent was either walking straight back, or took their time throwing their own counter. Of course the arm-across-the-chin defense will work.
Most of the time I agree with your technical breakdowns, but this time I don't. No big deal.
you might be right. but when you miss a right hand, there is a moment for your arm to recoil back and stop that counter, and thats good, because that takes just a moment to do.
when abreu got hit, i thought he probably ought to have caught that right uppercut.
https://i.imgur.com/RwjJJpx.gif
the shoulder roll is your cue here that when you miss, that counter may be coming back at you. its a good precaution if it doesnt, and it stops you from getting hit by it if it does.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Ennis turning it up in 5th jarring Abreu and lands hard on the beltline, Abreu looks for a time out and ref says keep fighting. In turn Abreu hits Ennis in his Ennis Jr and both warned. Ennis walking in behind high shoulder guard and landing left hooks..and down he goes. Abreu flat and up at 8! Abreu not long for this. Beautiful inside right uppercut counter got the KD, very fluid
thats how steve forbes knocked out julio sanchez leon.
https://i.imgur.com/uq49u8w.gif
a while ago it used to be that, if you missed a right hand, you'd bring your right arm across your face, sort of like a face bar, so you could catch that counter in palm of your right glove.
https://i.imgur.com/kG5Nilr.gif
if you watch all the old fights you will see guys doing that often. i think it might have something to do with how fighters used to throw that counter more often. it is nice to see someone that can still do that today, even if no one else knows how to keep from getting hit by it today.
fucking awesome example of Marciano getting his right arm in front of his face after missing, he missed so many fucking right hands, you KNOW he woulda been KOed if he didnt have that great defensive tactic.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NoSavingByTheBell
fucking awesome example of Marciano getting his right arm in front of his face after missing, he missed so many fucking right hands, you KNOW he woulda been KOed if he didnt have that great defensive tactic.
i like rocky marciano too.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yuzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Right. Another clip where the counter takes a month to arrive.
Hey no issues. I stand by my opinion. Instead of saying Sanchez had enough time to get his right hand under his chin... I prefer to commend Forbes for a picture-perfect right uppercut counter.
Sanchez was perfectly placed (for Forbes) at the end of his punch... he had committed... and hadn't even brought his right hand all the way back when Forbes connected.
Every other video you've posted the opponent was either walking straight back, or took their time throwing their own counter. Of course the arm-across-the-chin defense will work.
Most of the time I agree with your technical breakdowns, but this time I don't. No big deal.
you might be right. but when you miss a right hand, there is a moment for your arm to recoil back and stop that counter, and thats good, because that takes just a moment to do.
when abreu got hit, i thought he probably ought to have caught that right uppercut.
https://i.imgur.com/RwjJJpx.gif
the shoulder roll is your cue here that when you miss, that counter may be coming back at you. its a good precaution if it doesnt, and it stops you from getting hit by it if it does.
I wish the Forbes and Ennis video clips were at the same speed... but still, I noticed some differences that I think were key.
When Forbes rolls his shoulder, his right hand is cocked and in position. Without windup, he throws it perfectly timed.... preventing Sanchez to have any time to bring his right hand back into a defensive position.
When Ennis rolls his, he goes into a windup motion with his right hand. Yes.... you're absolutely right. Abreu could've definitely used better defensive technique to catch that right uppercut. He certainly had the time.
Abreu also lost positioning of his feet a lot more than Sanchez did, falling into Ennis and being woefully vulnerable for that right hand upper.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Man! Those uppercuts are brutal punches.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I wish the Forbes and Ennis video clips were at the same speed... but still, I noticed some differences that I think were key.
When Forbes rolls his shoulder, his right hand is cocked and in position. Without windup, he throws it perfectly timed.... preventing Sanchez to have any time to bring his right hand back into a defensive position.
When Ennis rolls his, he goes into a windup motion with his right hand. Yes.... you're absolutely right. Abreu could've definitely used better defensive technique to catch that right uppercut. He certainly had the time.
Abreu also lost positioning of his feet a lot more than Sanchez did, falling into Ennis and being woefully vulnerable for that right hand upper.
you are right. every case is different.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
I went back one page in this thread and read with great interest The exchange between Tito and Yuzo... I watched the clips again, and in that knockout uppercut punch, I think the guy started his uppercut while the other guy's right hand was still being thrown and that is why he was able to land it before the other guy could bring his right hand up to his face to try to block
It looks like he had a split second of a head start on throwing his uppercut. I think that uppercut was not completely calculated.
But the uppercut was almost hitting its Target at the time the other guy should have been bringing his right hand back up to his chin in defense
But I do agree that the other guy did not really seem to make an effort at the last moment to bring his hand back up to his chin to protect himself
Unfortunately though the punch had started earlier than a normal counterpunch. I don't know if that's just luck or what but definitely the uppercut started a little bit earlier than the other videos
As far as Marciano not throwing that right hand with much conviction.... Marciano was a master at distance. Archie Moore had probably moved just ever so slightly out of Marciano's reach and Marciano had detected that very quickly and therefore he pulled up on that right hand. It was definitely not thrown with any conviction and looked like halfway through he bailed out on it
You know why? because in the second round of that fight he missed a right hand that he was out of range to be throwing in the first place and it resulted in him getting tagged really hard right on the button and going down for only the second time in his career
Marciano would not make that same mistake twice against somebody like Archie Moore
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
Precisely. Marciano in that clip seemed to detect Moore had moved away mid-punch, and made the smart adjustment of bailing on the punch and bringing his glove beneath his chin instead. It showed amazing ring awareness in the split seconds that determine the punches that land and those that miss.
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
here's another right hand that he bailed out on, but not quite as much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8z9_1wkXU
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
All this talk of awesome uppercuts and love the clips but thought of Bailey sending Mike Jones into total anonymity right off ;D. Def more of a straight back but Bailey was well planted for Jones to run right onto it. Head went low and level with his lead as he tried to get it back and Bailey almost tucked his forehead in his back pocket for him. https://youtu.be/IWeAzDS7XVM
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
-
Re: Erickson Lubin v Terrell Gausha on Showtime
dude looks like Ike Quarte in that thumbnail