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Interesting debate. It's like what I feel about the Cleveland Indians and the (formerly named) Washington Redskins.
Here's the logo of the former.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...s_logo.svg.png
Here WAS the logo of the former.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013...superJumbo.jpg
One was offensive and insulting. The other one wasn't. Yet it was the Washington Redskins who got "de-named" and are now known as the Washington Football Team. The remain logo-less.
Pity.
Again you are not being honest. Lets go back to the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
A private company made a decision to stop publishing and reprinting 6 books anymore in a series created many years ago in order to avoid causing unnecessary offense and to respond to a changed world and market.
They are still reprinting and publishing the other 33 books in the series.
All your talk of banning and purging is not in anyway reflective of the reality of the situation.
You and Brock can pull whoever you like out of your red and white hat and pretend that their not being offended is relevant but it really isn't.
It is a marketing decision the company made because they believe those images to be offensive. When you read the entire story and take into account context etc across all six books, it actually makes perfect sense and is a rational reasonable moderate response.
Unlike yours and Brocks that pleads with everyone to join in your outrage. ;D
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Originally Posted by GandalfWhy are you making it into a left and right issue? Is teaching kids about sex really about left wing or right wing? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanz
Because while of course people right across the political spectrum can be over eager to ban stuff, historically it has been the conservative right who have been far more eager to ban stuff. That is undeniable.
I don't understand this stupid desire to pretend to be playing Devil's advocate on behalf of very well accepted mainstream groups. It is baffling and odd.
Right wing conservative groups across the world, largely influenced by religious beliefs, be that Fundamentalist Christians, Orthodox Jews or Conservative Muslims have all been at the forefront of opposing sex education even before Gay rights etc were included. They did not want even the mechanics of reproduction or contraception discussed because ignorance of those things is what keeps their flocks in line. The left historically have kicked against that kind of control. You know this but you have adopted this weird alt right virtue signalling persona that demands you deny it .
Beaner, I can show you wedding photos of people with oriental eyes, using chopsticks and eating rice, and wearing hanbok. It really is just normal Asian culture. The only difference was the chap was China of the past.
Should I go on a crusade and demand British customs and eyelid surgery for all? I like how people are.
Nowt wrong wth it. The racists are those ignorant of other cultures that are nothing like the UK or US. Korean art often has often depicted people in quite a similar way.
Should the masks be banned too? Where is your line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I can introduce you to Morris dancers who insist on wearing a blackface and those who realising other colours are available choose to wear no face make up or brightly coloured makeup. It really is just normal British and Celtic culture but neither is an excuse to fight for the right to still televise racist bullshit like the Black and White minstrel show like they did here in the UK when i was a child.
You are still pretending that everything should conform to your sensibilities and the ultra conservative country you chose to move to. The decision of a private company to not reprint something is not even in the same library as banning anything, let alone the same page.
Why can't you just be honest?
I have been more than honest. You just do not know this part of the world. This is normal Asian culture. Costumes, head wear, then after some rice eaten with chopsticks. Natural and normal Oriental features.
So do you have a problem with their culture? Looks a bit like the cartoon right? You seem keen to silence anyone who says caricaturing what really is out there is somehow naughty. I just think that is odd.
http://cyberus.ca/~gcraigs/wedding.jpg
Except you haven't have you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Dr Seuss was obviously less informed about Asian Culture than I am but not telling anybody to ban his books or making up lies to support that assertion. None of those books have been banned. They are just not being reprinted.
And no, the photograph you sent a link to has absolutely no relationship to a white bloke with a gun standing on three Chinese blokes heads, or a black fella in a grass skirt with a bone through his nose. You are just being dishonest in order to attribute importance to something you think vindicates your own myopic view of the world.
And fuck right off out of here with the "Keen to silence" lies. :rolleyes:
Look at the racist bullshit that is allowed to fly here, year in year out.
Ban Immigrants.
Ban the Bhurka
Ban the LGBT crowd
'Cure' 'Liberalism'
Ban protesting
Ban' Leftism'
What do you think those attitudes are really about ?
They are about silencing others.
They are about claiming to have the right to be purposefully and repeatedly provocative and offensive, but to then either threaten, or campaign behind people's backs to have posters like myself banned from the forum, when this is pointed out to them.
If you really cared about censorship and freedom of speech you would speak out against those kind of things, but instead you either remain silent or join in with the bullies and the bigots.
This whole thread is built on the false assertions of a shit stirring bullshitter pretending that something happened, that actually didn't.
These are apparently the pulled images, so what are you talking about? What images are you talking about? Clearly something different. Show your information.
https://nationalpost.com/entertainme...ooks-cancelled
Will you please stop doing the whataboutery and dancing onto other topics too. Not relevant.
My own myopic view of the world? You need to look in a mirror. I just do not consider a kids book of its time to be harmful and neither do other Asians I have shown the images to.
You are not versed in Asian cultures. Lol.
He wants to split hairs about banned vs no longer printed, its the same damn effect isnt it. WE're talking EFFECT here. Thats all that matters.
Right, I am at a computer so will address this properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzExcept you haven't have you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Dr Seuss was obviously less informed about Asian Culture than I am but not telling anybody to ban his books or making up lies to support that assertion. None of those books have been banned. They are just not being reprinted.
And no, the photograph you sent a link to has absolutely no relationship to a white bloke with a gun standing on three Chinese blokes heads, or a black fella in a grass skirt with a bone through his nose. You are just being dishonest in order to attribute importance to something you think vindicates your own myopic view of the world.
And fuck right off out of here with the "Keen to silence" lies. :rolleyes:
Look at the racist bullshit that is allowed to fly here, year in year out.
Ban Immigrants.
Ban the Bhurka
Ban the LGBT crowd
'Cure' 'Liberalism'
Ban protesting
Ban' Leftism'
What do you think those attitudes are really about ?
They are about silencing others.
They are about claiming to have the right to be purposefully and repeatedly provocative and offensive, but to then either threaten, or campaign behind people's backs to have posters like myself banned from the forum, when this is pointed out to them.
If you really cared about censorship and freedom of speech you would speak out against those kind of things, but instead you either remain silent or join in with the bullies and the bigots.
This whole thread is built on the false assertions of a shit stirring bullshitter pretending that something happened, that actually didn't.
1. Dr. Seuss was less informed about Asian culture than you? Hmm, bold claim. I have worked in schools and seen kids reading comic books with characters that look like this. Kind of normal. You know that, right? All Asian created by Asians. Daft racists, right? :-\
2. The books are being silenced and for seemingly being 'offensive' and 'racist'. They seem to be rather benign, but are indeed being silenced.
3. I have no idea what these images you speak of are, but now you have brought this up have you never seen a black man with a bone through the nose. How is that racist? I thought you were versed in Asian cultures? How is a white man standing on 3 Chinese heads racist? Should he be standing on white heads? Would that be better for you? Of course it would be nice to not stand on heads, but the world is not always peaceful. Asians even do bad things to other Asians as evidenced by history.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...en-tribes.html
4. Then you jump onto a list of non related topics. Okay, let's take migration and it being about 'silencing others'. Silencing who? You do realize that mass immigration has been going on against the will of the populace for decades (check the polling since the 1960's) with anyone speaking out described as.....racist. Who is doing the silencing on this? It is the media. Then on here people like you with the constant 'racism' angle.
5. I believe in freedom of speech 100% as argued by Chomsky here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydtEp2xTeJs
Even if a view is racist or denies the holocaust, I do not deny that freedom. I would rather it discussed openly. I am an absolutist in that regard. I remember once wondering why Twitter did not ban Trump, but only because I knew he was breaking their rules. Do I think he has the right to voice those views in general? Of course. I think you are as mad as a hatter sometimes, but you can voice yourself and in turn I can either respond or walk away. You can too as can too as seen in your 24 hour long attempt to leave. That made me chuckle. ;D
My last sentence does not really make any sense.
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Originally Posted by Gandalf
You entire argument makes no sense it is just 100% whatabouttery and evasion.
This is a thread set up on the premise and assertion that the example of a private company deciding not to reprint 6 children's books from a series of 39 was an example of not only someone banning books, but also evidence that the people doing so were not good guys.
Is that true?
What it really boils down to is that you as usual think you know better. You think you are the expert and everything should therefore be run by you.
It doesn't matter if you go and ask a million Asians if they are offended or not by the pictures because it isn't your company or decision to make. Whether the publisher made that decision based on a genuine wish not to cause unnecessary offense, to avoid litigation, to appeal more to a certain demographic, or simply because they thought financially they would in the long run sell more books (which seems to have happened) they are not the government and are not banning anything.
Nobody is disputing your knowledge of South Korea and it's culture but that doesn't by extension mean everybody else is ignorant and naive about Asians. Asians are humans first and will differ massively across socio-economic, geographic and cultural and religious lines and so nobody can pretend to speak for all of them.
When they are part of a minority in another country though things are undoubtedly different and stereotypes and cliches, while obviously reflecting some truthful observations, should be able to be challenged over time. That is how culture works, it is not this static dead thing you seem to want to make it into. A turgid decaying corpulent immovable fetid mass that has all vitality and potential to evolve removed.
Where were you in 1981? Were you even born? It might seem irrelevant but that was the first time I met and stayed with my Asian step Mother and started JuJutsu, learning from her student lodger over from Hong Kong. That was way before cultural appropriation was a thing, and I thought Bruce Lee, Origami and the amazing food were pretty cool things to adopt despite that probably being considered the opposite to what they are by some idiots today.
My old man had met his new wife after living and studying in the Solomon Islands for a couple years. As an Anthropologist he lived with tribes who had in their past been cannibals, and so no, the one thing i learned pretty early on was to not have a problem with other people's culture purely because it was different to mine.
:hippy:
FFS man it is like Groundhog Day with you sometimes. ;D
So on the basis of your logic I must now ask Pixar to stop portraying lanky cowboys with round eyes and pointy noses because as a minority in a country who is compared to such a stereotype it is insidious and ignores that white people can have small eyes, bulging bellies, and orange skin too.
Bonkers. It is basically a self ban and I know about those.
I have never read a Seuss book. I read good books like Bad Vibes by Luke Haines. Evil books are what I am into. Any man that jumps 15 feet in the dark and breaks his legs is automatically on my list of legends. Leg-ends.