Who’s had the vaccine ? Side effects ?

[TitoFan]

You don't get to ask me shit. Capiche?

i'll keep asking & you'll keep being unable to prove your fixed belief is real

​No. I am not here to educate a delusional halfwit 👍🏽

called it. defelection it is then. you should educate yourself on fallacies. it's so funny that you are unable to prove your fixed belief is real. finally some actual humor from you

still deflecting i see. why is it that you are unable to prove your fixed belief is real?

I got your proof right here.

absolutely nothing, as you & i already knew. i'm still asking & you're still unable to prove your fixed belief is real

didn't you say i don't get to ask you shit? & now you want me to keep asking? you're all over the place. why is it that you are unable to prove your fixed belief is real?

[TIC]

more fallacies. your red herring fallacies want work to distract from your burden to prove your fixed belief is real

[TitoFan]

My BURDEN??!??

Bwaha-hahahaha-hahahahaha!!!!!!!

Damn bro. I don't know what your day job is. But rest assured there's a standup comedy slot on HBO for you if you want it. I'll even put in a good word for you.

[TIC]

you have a fixed belief. it's your burden to prove that belief is real. all your fallacies don't change that fact

[Beanz]

you have a fixed belief. it's your burden to prove that belief is real. all your fallacies don't change that fact

If you don't believe evidence is proof then there is no way for anyone to satisfy your fixed belief anyway. It is because we all believe that evidence is proof that the vast majority of posters on this board are willing to change while you seem paralyzed by your own dogmatic refusal to question any of your own beliefs.

[TIC]

you have a fixed belief. it's your burden to prove that belief is real. all your fallacies don't change that fact

If you don't believe evidence is proof then there is no way for anyone to satisfy your fixed belief anyway. It is because we all believe that evidence is proof that the vast majority of posters on this board are willing to change while you seem paralyzed by your own dogmatic refusal to question any of your own beliefs.

evidence supports ideas, proof supports facts. please provide your proof of what you have proven covid is & what it does

[TitoFan]

This all stems from your mistaken notion of what burden of proof is, and who carries the burden of proof.

I (and most of the forum) am part of the vast majority of people who accept that COVID exists, and that is indeed a virus. This vast majority includes highly educated people in the pertinent fields. It also includes people who have gotten the virus, or have been affected by it in some way.

So as to quantify "vast majority", I present to you the following graph:




So as you can see, the graph begins at 30%, and works its way down from there.

You, on the other hand, are part of the very distinct minority who believe COVID is a hoax.

Technically, both are claims.

I, and the majority of the civilized world, claim that COVID does indeed exist, and is a virus.

You, and a distinct minority of people, claim that COVID does not exist and is a hoax.


So your argument that only one side has a claim and therefore bears the "burden of proof" is faulty.

BOTH sides have claims. In this case, because you are part of the distinct minority which claims that COVID is a hoax, the burden of proof lies with you.

It's called "conventional knowledge."

Conventional knowledge is that COVID does indeed exist. Your claim goes against conventional knowledge. For this reason, again... the burden of proof lies with you.


It's like the flat Earth argument.

The VAST MAJORITY of the civilized world believes the world is round.

A distinct minority of people believe the Earth is flat.

Conventional wisdom holds that the Earth is round.

Thus, the burden of proof lies with the flat earthers.



I don't normally expend this amount of time trying to argue COVID existence with you, nor with anyone else.

But I'm feeling generous today, and will extend this "one-time" courtesy.

After that it'll be back to one-liners.

[TIC]

i will keep this polite in the effort to show there is nothing personal here, i am only interested in what can be proven to be true

the burden of proof is with the person making the claim. you have a claim that covid is real & is the cause of your illness & i am asking you to prove that claim is real

the vast majority of people may accept that covid exists & that is indeed a virus. firstly, i see you are speaking for others, this discussion right here is between you & i, if others wish to discuss this then it will be between myself & them so that no one is speaking for someone else. secondly, i am asking for what you have proven to exist, not what you accept to exist. thirdly, you are using an argumentum ad populum fallacy or appeal to masses fallacy, just because many people accept something exists is not proof that it exists

the vast majority may include highly educated people in pertinent fields, this is an argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy, so as this discussion is between you & i, what proof have got from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified & you can provide to me so i can also verify that proves your claim?

the vast majority may also include people who have gotten ill or affected in some way, you are making a presupposition that the virus was the cause of this illness. as this discussion is between you & i, what proof do you have that i can also verify that the virus you are claiming was the cause of your illness?

there is no need to quantify “vast majority" because it is an argumentum ad populum fallacy or appeal to masses fallacy.

i am not making a claim, you are claiming covid exists & i am asking you to prove it exists. you are trying to shift the burden of proof; this is another fallacy. the only one making a claim in our discussion is you & i am asking you to prove your claim is real

so is conventional knowledge something that has been accepted or been proven? i am asking you to prove your claim is real

i have not investigated the flat earth topic & it is off topic to our discussion here, i want go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. you & i can discuss it further if you want in another thread, but my initial thought would be that the vast majority of the civilized world believes the world is round is the claim being made. i do find it interesting that you used the word believes though

there is no argument, you & i are discussing a belief you have that you claim is real & i am asking you to prove that belief is real

i feel i have been more than generous is pointing out your fallacies & faulty reasoning. i hope if our discussion continues it can progress forward based on logic & the proof you are able to provide

[Beanz]

The problem is you are making a claim TIC. From day one you have been calling Covid, 'Convid' and 'a bullshit virus'.

That has always put the burden of proof on your shoulders.

You can pretend that you are having a conversation but really you are struggling to entertain a thought without feeling that you must accept it.

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

An appeal to Authority is not fallacious if that Authority really is an expert authority in the relevant field.

You are being incredibly disingenuous with Titofan by attributing to him motivations and arguments he never made in order to convince yourself that again you yourself do not have to prove that your claim is real.

Prove your claim is real.

Stop being rude and childish and explain your own very immature belief system.

We are all ears.

[TIC]

The problem is you are making a claim TIC. From day one you have been calling Covid, 'Convid' and 'a bullshit virus'.

That has always put the burden of proof on your shoulders.

You can pretend that you are having a conversation but really you are struggling to entertain a thought without feeling that you must accept it.

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

An appeal to Authority is not fallacious if that Authority really is an expert authority in the relevant field.

You are being incredibly disingenuous with Titofan by attributing to him motivations and arguments he never made in order to convince yourself that again you yourself do not have to prove that your claim is real.

Prove your claim is real.

Stop being rude and childish and explain your own very immature belief system.

We are all ears.

the claim is covid is a virus that cause illness in people. that is where the burden of proof lies

i can call it bullshit or a hoax until proof is provided, that is not me making a claim. that is me pointing out fallacies & beliefs

i am happy to entetain the thought that covid is a virus that cause illness in people but i won't acccept it as real until proof is provided. it is you who is unable to entertain the thought that your belief in covid might not be correct without feeling that you must accept it

you are using an ad hominem fallacy by focusing on my maturity or skills & saying i am avoiding doing any rational thinking myself, when you are the one unable to think for yourself & provide the proof of your claim

an an appeal to authority is a fallacy. it is not proof of your claim. please provide the proof you have verified from an expert authority in the relevant field that i can also verify that proves your claim is real

there is nothing disingenuous about highlighting titofans fallacies. show one example of me being disingenuous to his statements.

again the claim is covid is a virus that cause illness in people. that is where the burden of proof lies. i am not the one making a claim. stop trying to shift the burden of proof

rude and childish are ad hominem fallacies focused on me rather than the claim that covid is a virus that causes illness in people.

i don't hold an immature belief system, you are creating a strawman to attack, it's also another ad hominem fallacy focused on me rather than the burden to prove your claim, you hold a belief & i am asking you to prove your belief is real

provide proof that i can verfiy that proves your belief that covid is a virus that causes illness in people. i'm all ears

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Definitely it was a syllogistically unsound argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy

[TitoFan]

I can appreciate your wanting to "keep this polite," but it doesn't make your counterarguments any more accurate.

The first thing that pops out of your replies is the long list of supposed fallacies I'm expressing.

We all have Internet, and we all have access to the sites that list all the argument fallacies known to man.

"Argumentum ad populum fallacy"
"Red herring fallacy"
"Ad hominem fallacy"
"Appeal to authority fallacy"
"Strawman fallacy"

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that no one here is impressed by your rattling off of these Google-able fallacies.

I think Beanz said it well...

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

I'll point out the holes in your reply.

the vast majority of people may accept that covid exists & that is indeed a virus. firstly, i see you are speaking for others, this discussion right here is between you & i, if others wish to discuss this then it will be between myself & them so that no one is speaking for someone else.

As authoritative as you may want to sound, this one is pure B.S. If quoting known statistics on how people feel about COVID is "speaking for others", I'm afraid you've missed the train.
So drop the "speaking for others" B.S. for when it really applies.

the vast majority may include highly educated people in pertinent fields, this is an argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy, so as this discussion is between you & i, what proof have got from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified & you can provide to me so i can also verify that proves your claim?

Another one to which you slapped a Googled fallacy.
The problem with this, is that the Appeal to Authority fallacy refers to those times you pick out unqualified authority figures to back up your argument.

Example:

Appeal to authority fallacy refers to the use of an expert’s opinion to back up an argument. Instead of justifying one’s claim, a person cites an authority figure who is not qualified to make reliable claims about the topic at hand. Because people tend to believe experts, appeal to authority often imbues an argument with credibility.

Appeal to authority fallacy example
“My favorite actor, who starred in that movie about a virus that turns people into zombies, said in an interview that genetically modified crops caused COVID-19. So I think that’s what really happened.”

In our case, we're talking about QUALIFIED authority figures. Qualified through years and sometimes decades of study in related fields.
Moreover, it's not just one or two or a dozen authorities. We're literally talking thousands around the world.
So... sorry. Another argument shot down.

i have not investigated the flat earth topic & it is off topic to our discussion here, i want go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. you & i can discuss it further if you want in another thread, but my initial thought would be that the vast majority of the civilized world believes the world is round is the claim being made. i do find it interesting that you used the word believes though

As much as you want to assign yet another Googled fallacy to my arguments (the red herring one this time), you're wrong once again. I'm not using "an irrelevant topic to divert attention from the main issue."
I'm using an example to illustrate and drive home my point.
Look it up. Examples are used in adult conversations and arguments.

i feel i have been more than generous is pointing out your fallacies & faulty reasoning. i hope if our discussion continues it can progress forward based on logic & the proof you are able to provide

I suppose you felt the need to end your "full-of-holes" speech with a pretentious and grandiose statement. But generosity is totally irrelevant here. I see your use of the word as a comical attempt to sound patient, when in reality it is some of us who are actually demonstrating an immense amount of patience.

"Pointing out my fallacies and faulty reasoning" is basically (no offense) a load of horseshit which, as you've been clearly shown, is actually the other way around.

If you really "hoped our discussion could progress forward", you'd debate in an honest manner, and not cutting/pasting easily Googled fallacies which, as was accurately pointed out earlier... you have neither the maturity nor the comprehension to understand.

Finally...

Phrases like "prove to me"... "show me"... "proof you are able to provide"... continue to miss the boat. Let me explain something as clearly as I can.

I need to prove to a bank that I'm good for repayment of a loan.

I need to prove to a professor that I have learned the subject matter by passing a test I am administered.

I need to prove to my boss that I'm able to handle the workload I have been given.

To you... I honestly don't need to prove SHIT. But I presume you know that.


Finally (again)...

Your eternal confusion with what constitutes evidence, proof, verification, and all related principles.

Do you know where you were born? How? Where is the proof of that?

Do you know who your parents are? How? Where is your proof of that?

Whatever you learned in science, math, and the other subject matter you must have taken in school... did you personally perform experiments to verify each and every one?


Unfortunately, you have a problem common to all conspiracy theorists and deniers. You sit back and dismiss everything, including that which is accepted by much more educated people than you or I... because it's the easy, lazy, noncommittal way to live. Some of us just don't fall for that bullshit.