Do you guys Agree with Max Kellerman

[The Boxer]

Max Kellerman said that Oscar never beat a top fighter in there prime.

[Taeth]

I disagree he plainly beat Trinidad, but though he never beat a great in their prime he's beaten, had close fights with more than one. Both his fights with Mosley were close, and he won the second, He beat JCC twice, He fought a close fight against Pernell that I thought was pretty much a draw though I could see Pernell taking it.

[SweetPea]

I scored the Trinidad fight a draw. If you thought Oscar won, then obviously that would count as a win against a top fighter in their prime.

I thought Quartey clearly beat Oscar and that Oscar got a gift decision. If you felt Oscar won, then that would count as a win against a top fighter in their prime.

Other than that, his wins against big name opponents (Whitaker, Chavez) were when those guys were way past their prime (and plenty of people think Whitaker beat him).

[The Boxer]

you guys think when he beat vargas that he was way past it or was DLH on point that night.

[shza]

you guys think when he beat vargas that he was way past it or was DLH on point that night.

I think Vargas is not a "top fighter" so it's irrelevant. Same goes for Quartey (though I thought Quartey won that fight anyway).

Tito is the only top fighter Oscar ever beat in his prime, IMO. Though the judges obviously disagreed.

[The Boxer]

you guys think when he beat vargas that he was way past it or was DLH on point that night.

I think Vargas is not a "top fighter" so it's irrelevant. Same goes for Quartey (though I thought Quartey won that fight anyway).

Tito is the only top fighter Oscar ever beat in his prime, IMO. Though the judges obviously disagreed.

Oh Alright Then

[Wacko3205]

As everyone's opinion here is on point & valid...basically because it's their opinion...I gotta chuck mine in.

He went above & beyond the call of duty against Quartey, Vargas, & Tito & beat all of them in their primes & when they were on the cusp of greatness.

Honestly...I usually agree with Max...but not here.

Max has a cornucopia of knowledge that is genrally spot on & overflowing...but he's wrong here.

[shza]

As everyone's opinion here is on point & valid...basically because it's their opinion...I gotta chuck mine in.

He went above & beyond the call of duty against Quartey, Vargas, & Tito & beat all of them in their primes & when they were on the cusp of greatness.

Honestly...I usually agree with Max...but not here.

Max has a cornucopia of knowledge that is genrally spot on & overflowing...but he's wrong here.

Do you really think Quartey and Vargas are on the same level as the top guys Oscar has lost to though? B-Hop, Floyd, Shane . . . . Those guys are all first-ballot HOF material. Tito is too, so I credit Oscar there. But Quartey and Vargas just aren't.

[Rick_Rack]

I sure do think so. Vargas has had some back problems we know but Quartay is alway in the mix just as Vargas was with Shane during the first fight.

[shza]

I sure do think so Vargas has had some back problems we know but Quartay is alway in the mix just as Vargas was with Shane during the first fight.

But they're not going into the HOF is the point.

[Rick_Rack]

They are former world champions so if they dont make the hall of fame doesnt mean they arnt or werent good fighters.

[Lords Gym]

Max Kellerman said that Oscar never beat a top fighter in there prime.

Kellerman wouldn’t know a boxing glove if he was wearing it. Can’t stand the muppet .

[Wacko3205]

As everyone's opinion here is on point & valid...basically because it's their opinion...I gotta chuck mine in.

He went above & beyond the call of duty against Quartey, Vargas, & Tito & beat all of them in their primes & when they were on the cusp of greatness.

Honestly...I usually agree with Max...but not here.

Max has a cornucopia of knowledge that is genrally spot on & overflowing...but he's wrong here.

Do you really think Quartey and Vargas are on the same level as the top guys Oscar has lost to though? B-Hop, Floyd, Shane . . . . Those guys are all first-ballot HOF material. Tito is too, so I credit Oscar there. But Quartey and Vargas just aren't.

Come on now...I never said anything like that...& you know me well enough to know that I don't...but everyone saying that theyr'e not worthy opponents...that's just horse shit.

They were in their prime & they were world class tooth chippers.

They deserve respect...even though I don't respect them.

[Jman76]

Kellerman looks like a very nervous Bud Bundy from Married With Children.

[shza]

As everyone's opinion here is on point & valid...basically because it's their opinion...I gotta chuck mine in.

He went above & beyond the call of duty against Quartey, Vargas, & Tito & beat all of them in their primes & when they were on the cusp of greatness.

Honestly...I usually agree with Max...but not here.

Max has a cornucopia of knowledge that is genrally spot on & overflowing...but he's wrong here.

Do you really think Quartey and Vargas are on the same level as the top guys Oscar has lost to though? B-Hop, Floyd, Shane . . . . Those guys are all first-ballot HOF material. Tito is too, so I credit Oscar there. But Quartey and Vargas just aren't.

Come on now...I never said anything like that...& you know me well enough to know that I don't...but everyone saying that theyr'e not worthy opponents...that's just horse shit.

They were in their prime & they were world class tooth chippers.

They deserve respect...even though I don't respect them.

That's fair--and I know you didn't say that. But this whole thread was about what Kellerman said, which maybe I'm just misremembering, but I thought he said something like "elite fighters in their prime." So I think we're really just debating what the space is between being "worthy" and being "elite."

I definitely agree with you that they were worthy. And I credit Oscar especially for the Vargas win, given that Vargas was completely roided out at the time. I just don't think I call them "elite."