Serious Question for all...Concerns our sport...Everyones input appreciated

[DaxxKahn]

OK I know it is a long one but give it the once over and give your honest opinion...CC for all who do




Over the years boxing has evolved into a sport of mega paydays. Money to be thrown around is there if they like to admit it or not. I know of course that many fighters do not make the mega payday's that are advertised in the papers for fighters like DLH, Tyson used to get ect..But the big high profile fights make so much money it would make your jaw drop. If they report that 5 million was grossed you can bet it is closer to 7 or 8 mil.

Boxing reform has always been a touchy subject and in all honesty one that never seems to go anywhere other then it being a cause worth fighting for......We all know of stories of ex fighters who stuck around to long or had nothing to go to after boxing and ended up on the wrong end of the tracks.....Though like I said it is a great cause and one I am for but it seems to be almost one that will always be an uphill battle sadly......

My point is this....I was approached by someone to work a different angle....If successful in even the slightest way it would be a major step towards something.....I just do not know if it would be a lost cause or not....Before commiting myself and jumping in on something just because it sounds good I would like to hear different opinions...Maybe pick up something here or there to help adjust the way to approach this...So Here it goes...as it was proposed to me.....

Obviously boxing reform is a bigger matter so it is decided to take small steps and force some adjustments...Since it is easier to have the powers that be enforce things rather then change an idea they creadted ( congress legistlative ect).l....

The idea is to petition the powers that be to force the promoters to have an insurance policy for every fighter on their card. In the event of a long term injury or death occured in the ring the promoter can and will be held liable if neglect was found to be a factor. The factors of neglect will be outlined as such.

1. The fighter injured is to be found to have been knocked out more then 3 times in the last 18 months in previous match ups

2. All fighters must undergo pre fight exams by not only a doctor of the promoters choice but an exam by an undisclosed outside physician to be named only the day of the exam

3. A fighter must under go 3 weigh in procedures. One 3 days prior to the bout, one the day befor the bout and one the day after the bout. In those weigh in procedures the fighter must not be more then 8lbs over 3 days before the fight and weigh no more then 8 pounds over the day of the fight.


If any or all of these criteria is plauseable and the promoter continues to allow the fight to take place he is 100% liable for any or all occurances that take place in the fight in which this criteria was ignored. The decision though made by the fighter to continue on with the bout all repercussions are to be compensated by the promoter.

If such accident does occur in the ring the promoter will be responsible for all medical bills, outside the monetary obligation to either compensate the injured fighter or his family with a lump sum agreed on before the bout or a continuous annual salary to compensate the fighter not being able to support himself for the duration of his life.

Failure to do so will result in immediate seizure of the promotion company, all of it's assetts. Reguardless who is named as chief financial officer of the company and the CEO of the company is liable for an undertermined jail sentence of no less then 3 years and no more then 10 years each without the possibility of parole. Also all other executives and members of the board will be stripped of their license to partyicipate in the sport of boxing in any manner for the duration.



The idea is to prevent mis match fights and to avoid fighters going into bouts at 100%...be it weight gain or what ever the case...

If the promoter is given guide lines he has to follow he will make the fighters follow certain guidelines....


Do you think it is or is not a worthy cause to get behind or do you guys think it is something that would be a failed effort


I am up in the air on this and you guys know the sport just as well as anyone I ever have known so opinions are appreciated greatly

[yoitsdan]

There's plenty of good stuff in there Daxx I absolutely agree with what you said about insurance policies for every fighter on the card and the criteria that equates to neglect. With boxing being the business it is with no main league or governing body, it is there to be exploited by promoters, unfortunately only someone who holds the cards could make the change, and the people that hold the aces are HBO, Showtime and the promoters. Who could enforce these rules? The commisions and the sanctioning bodies lack the clout because the promoter will just go to the next highest bidder.

I don't really know who would be able to make some sort of change, but it would be great for the sport if something could be done.

[tedsares]

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

[No Contest]

How do we force it on them..they are in 100% control with no federal commission. Promoters might be for it if it would help boxing's image..but I seriously think anything that is going to cause money to come out of their pockets is going to take some kind of outside help, i.e. feds...I say petition state governments, but that will take lots of signatures and groundwork to even get a bill on the agenda to be voted on....I dont know how to go about it, but I'm for it...

[slk123]

Excellent read Daxx and I think you'll get no one complaining of the long read. We've been poking fun at Teddy Atlas lately but no one has been championing the fight for change the way he has for the past few years. I'm all for the one change that you put forth and I would do what I could to help so don't take it wrong when I say that unless you have some heavy hitters lined up, I don't see how a petition is going to make a dent. I get the feeling you didn't just post this on a whim and that you have put a lot of time/effort it. So what's the battle plan? Count me in!

[DaxxKahn]

There's plenty of good stuff in there Daxx I absolutely agree with what you said about insurance policies for every fighter on the card and the criteria that equates to neglect. With boxing being the business it is with no main league or governing body, it is there to be exploited by promoters, unfortunately only someone who holds the cards could make the change, and the people that hold the aces are HBO, Showtime and the promoters. Who could enforce these rules? The commisions and the sanctioning bodies lack the clout because the promoter will just go to the next highest bidder.

I don't really know who would be able to make some sort of change, but it would be great for the sport if something could be done.

CC to ya...Like I said this was not my brainstorm it was something I was approached with and asked if I would get behind it....It is still something that is being approached on who eactly to petition first....As of now I believe it will be just NY that is being targeted since it was a group of local trainers and ex fighters that approached me on the idea....

Like I sated I just wanted to get a few opinions on the topic...Sometimes something sounds good to you the once you get feedback from others you realize it was not that good of an idea in the first place

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

Agreed Ted....And you should know a bit about the good fight towards reform you are the first to speak for it.....It is as I said an uphill battle that may never make it but we have to keep trying.....

As far as the insurance goes I believe (This was just proposed to me on Saturday and I am going to a meeting later this week for more detailed outline and plan of attack)...It is proposed that it is a mandatory of up to 1 million dollars aside from the other compensation.....

It will also be insurance the is required to have proof of before the card is sanctioned...Something I have seen done in the amateurs at certain places.....

Will it fix everything? NO will some med bills exceed the mark? Yes but it is better then nothing...At least gives the fighter and his family time to find a better method of arranging something....

The whole picture is more of a prevention then anything...Less mis-matches,,,less guys having to suck weight to make fights....ect...all factors in injuries.....if the penalty outweighs the gain then who knows maybe things will be avoided in the long run to cut down on such things in the first place

CC for the input Ted

[Kev]

Somw interesting ideas in there but I wander how workable some of them are.

I mean for example making a promoter liable if a fighter has been KO'd 3 times in 18 months. How does that work then, would it mean that such a fighter would have to retire? Or would have wait for a predetermined time period say 24 months before being allowed to box again?

And why should the promoter be liable in this case? Surely if a fighter is passed fit by a medical body then he's fit to fight no?

Also, and I appreciate the sport could do more to support fighters, but why is the onus always on promoters and governing bodies to make sure a fighter is insured in the event of an accident?

Can a boxer not take out private insurance? If I was a boxer I would even think of entering the ring unless I had insurance. Let's face it most of us wouldn't want to risk driving our cars without insurance irrespective of it being against the law, and I'm sure most of us have home insurance.

Shouldn't a fighter have insurance as well. I agree their promoters and managers should sort this for them but if not then surely a boxer should do it off their own back anyway just in case?

[DaxxKahn]

How do we force it on them..they are in 100% control with no federal commission. Promoters might be for it if it would help boxing's image..but I seriously think anything that is going to cause money to come out of their pockets is going to take some kind of outside help, i.e. feds...I say petition state governments, but that will take lots of signatures and groundwork to even get a bill on the agenda to be voted on....I dont know how to go about it, but I'm for it...

CC for the input...No there is no fed commission but this is why it is being approached in one spot to start at....The idea is to make it mandatory for the insurance to be proven before the sanction is given....Also that is why there are only a few criteria in it...make it less difficult and keep it kind of cut and dry.....

There are simular things for other sports where insurance is mandatory...also that is why it will state things about weight ect....how many times have we seen fighters even big names put on bad performances and get beaten by guys they should be able to beat due to being weight drained ect...

This will cut down on such things....EG guys who gain 10-15 pounds between fights

Excellent read Daxx and I think you'll get no one complaining of the long read. We've been poking fun at Teddy Atlas lately but no one has been championing the fight for change the way he has for the past few years. I'm all for the one change that you put forth and I would do what I could to help so don't take it wrong when I say that unless you have some heavy hitters lined up, I don't see how a petition is going to make a dent. I get the feeling you didn't just post this on a whim and that you have put a lot of time/effort it. So what's the battle plan? Count me in!

CC I am going to a meeting for more detailed outline this was just the gist of it so to speak....once I get full details I will let everyone know....I have been thinking about it a few days...don't want to jump into something just because it sounds good that why I am trying to get opinions from everyone

[DaxxKahn]

Somw interesting ideas in there but I wander how workable some of them are.

I mean for example making a promoter liable if a fighter has been KO'd 3 times in 18 months. How does that work then, would it mean that such a fighter would have to retire? Or would have wait for a predetermined time period say 24 months before being allowed to box again?

And why should the promoter be liable in this case? Surely if a fighter is passed fit by a medical body then he's fit to fight no?

Also, and I appreciate the sport could do more to support fighters, but why is the onus always on promoters and governing bodies to make sure a fighter is insured in the event of an accident?

Can a boxer not take out private insurance? If I was a boxer I would even think of entering the ring unless I had insurance. Let's face it most of us wouldn't want to risk driving our cars without insurance irrespective of it being against the law, and I'm sure most of us have home insurance.

Shouldn't a fighter have insurance as well. I agree their promoters and managers should sort this for them but if not then surely a boxer should do it off their own back anyway just in case?

As far as the 3 KO's in 18 months go we all know that doctors who work for promoters will say a guy is healthy even if he is wheelchair bound and blind...

EG Tommy Morrison was not tested by state official doctors bvefore being allowed to fight again...he got a piece of paper from a guy who may have been promised who knows what to say the test were neg

Also boxing is a sport of need....fighters will fight whenever they can reguardless unless they are already in the big money....It cuts down on gross mis-matches...a place where many fighters are injured....Many that do not make the papers or news....

As for fighters having their own insurance...The NFL has a plan in case players are hurt,,same goes for NBA, MLB, or any other major sport..That is beside the players personal insurance.....

The topic has nothing to do with the fighters insuring them selves has to do with them being protected in case of injury in the ring...

BTW a guy wh earns 400 for a night in the ring and works a 9-5 usually can not afford such insurance

CC for the input

[slk123]

Without a national body, don't expect the state commissions to do much about this. California has done it in a small way, but the insurance is meager. Victo Burgos' medical bills are monster bills that were only covered to a point. Places like Kentucy, WV, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maine, Vermont, and other such states simple will not addrress these issues on thier own. Still, as the saying goes, never give up the fight for reform, even if the boxers don't say much. It's like throwing something agaisnt the wall. Maybe, just maybe, some of it will stick. As Any Rand once said, evil requires the sanction of the victim.

I don't know if it's because you have posted on the subject before or if Daxx let a secret (maybe not) out of the bag when he alluded to the fact that you were the one who started the fight for reform but your post does have a familiar ring to the way it is written. If I'm out of line I'll modify/erase my post but am I to assume you are the REAL Teddy Atlas?

[No Contest]

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

[brucelee]

As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.

Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.

Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.

[bikersk]

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.

In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.

[DaxxKahn]

As I have been championing before, fighters should have insurance in case they become invalid or when they decide to retire.

Boxing has so many world champions(title holders) that are suffering from extreme poverty. Take the case of Luisito Espinosa (from the Philippines). After he was defrauded by some organizers, he became virtually bankrupt. What has his boxing organization (WBC) done for him? These boxing organizations are simply forgetting what these boxers had contributed to them.

Boxers should be given retirement benefit for all that they have done. They are killing themselves in this sport to entertain us but it seems that people are not concerned on them after their retirement.

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

I'd be thinking more along these lines too. Once litigation and blame start to become factors the lawyers get their grubby hands on the money anyway. I would think some form of external body, whether it a boxers 'union' or some other group could be entrusted with funds to assist fighters after injury or retirement. If the various WBABC's & IBF's etc were to be made to put aside a percentage of $$ from the largest fights that occur each year this would put a significant amount of money aside to support injured or retired boxers. If former boxers were to promote something like this I could see it getting somewhere.

In addition it would be most helpful for fighters to have support from promoters and the HBO's of the world to spend time and money looking at what will their fighters do after their career is over. Invest in some education and training for fighters in managing money and in other vocations so that when retirement comes either enforced due to illness or injury or by choice there is something to look forward to. There wont be too many ODLH's and the vast majority of fighters wont make anywhere near the money he did/does boxing and not all of them can be promoters (It takes a special breed of greed). However I pitty the poor guy trying to teach James Toney accountancy or something ("That don't add up BITCH" - POW) but it's a thought.

CC's For your input

[DaxxKahn]

I dont know if this is even inm the ballpark but what about a boxers union? If all the boxers could get on the same page, then we got something to work from...we may have to sit through some boycotts/strikes but hey football did it why cant boxing?

CC for the input