****Absolute Must Read!!!***

[Bx730NY]

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=13778&more=1

I don't even need to add to that.

[THE THIRD MAN]

If he takes out Cotto and Williams for sure he is an all time great, Cintron and Margarito are not in the mix IMO, they both won't get a shot at Mayweather in 2008.

[WelshDevilRob]

Floyd should go out and beat both Cotto and Williams and then retire with all questions and uncertainties answered in full. Whether he can actually beat them is another matter.

It would be a great shame if he retires without fighting the Top Welterweights.

[Bx730NY]

If he takes out Cotto and Williams for sure he is an all time great, Cintron and Margarito are not in the mix IMO, they both won't get a shot at Mayweather in 2008.

I agree. It's simple, beat the best possible competition and no one can question your greatness. Avoid every possible great challenge and...........well, you know.

[BoomBoom]

Hey, is that quote in the article from someone on this forum

[CutMeMick]

What a nice little read that was.

And for those posters here who are always throwing the word "GREAT" around and listing PBF's wins and how he dominated opponents. Making threads about him being the greatest or greater then fighters like SRR, SRL and Ali.

Take a good read in that article.

IMO, PBF mounted leaps in the ALL-TIME lists. I said both wins this year gave him that boost and put him closer to #1.
I think I said I would have him somewhere in the top 20-25....
But some people went a little too far there and echoed PBF's comments about how great he is.

[BoomBoom]

I think people give a little to much value to the undefeated aspect. Greats like Robinson and Pep remained undefeated for a long time but because they fought so often against solid fighter, eventually the lost. I have no doubt that if you put Floyd against as many fighters equally as good as the ones Robinson fought, his 0 would have gone long ago as would have any other fighters. It is hard to compare any modern fighter to a great from years back that fought so frequently fighting everybody, many in 15 round fights. And this is a time when referees would not stop a fight unless it was absolutely necessary. Sh@t, it 1945 Hatton would have been allowed to finish the fight and probably would have survived the remaining rounds, barely. But we will never know. The greats of yesterday are in a class of their own and there greatness can not ever be met because the way things are today and the way boxing is today wont allow it, for better or worse.

[ICB]

Im going to quote this article.


The “Pretty Boys” are now quick to get on the mountain top to scream about how he deserves to be mentioned with the Ray Robinsons and Muhammad Alis on boxing’s Mt. Rushmore. Some of them are so delusional to mention that he is actually the best fighter who ever lived. To believe that Mayweather is the greatest pugilist of all-time is, quite frankly, utter bullshit. To be honest, when I hear Mayweather’s obsessive fans discussing his greatness I usually laugh because they completely abandon logical reasoning and rely on obnoxious insult filled ranting and barking that it seems as if they are intentionally trying to model themselves after their hero. A typical message board rant from a Floyd fanatic goes a little something like

Now that is untrue i have not see anyone mention Mayweather, having better resume than Robinson or Ali. Yes there are few fanatic Mayweather fans thinking this but most Mayweather fans like me and most boxing fans know Mayweather's isn't at that level yet, but he is one of the most talented boxers of all time, and he has one of the best records of his era.

As great as Floyd is, he simply doesn’t belong in that company. He is an incredible athlete and his knowledge of in ring tactics is amazing, but he simply doesn’t have the quality wins to be mentioned among the highest tier of all-time greats.

Maybe not but his record is up there.

Diego Corrales
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Genaro Hernandez
Carlos Hernandez
Phillip Ndou
Jesus Chavez
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Arturo Gatti
Angel Manfredy
Zab Judah

Some of the names on that list may of not been in there peak, but to me that is solid list of opposition and certainly one of the best of the modern era IMO.

But other than that i really liked the article good read CC.

[DaxxKahn]

Excellent article...and a very true article...one that could be used over the years for more then just Floyd Mayweather

[SigmaMu]

Anthony Coleman is my kind of writer. He preaches the TRUTH.
He sure told it like it is when it came to Floyd's fan boys too.
LMAO!

[DaxxKahn]

The “Pretty Boys” are now quick to get on the mountain top to scream about how he deserves to be mentioned with the Ray Robinsons and Muhammad Alis on boxing’s Mt. Rushmore. Some of them are so delusional to mention that he is actually the best fighter who ever lived. To believe that Mayweather is the greatest pugilist of all-time is, quite frankly, utter bullshit. To be honest, when I hear Mayweather’s obsessive fans discussing his greatness I usually laugh because they completely abandon logical reasoning and rely on obnoxious insult filled ranting and barking that it seems as if they are intentionally trying to model themselves after their hero. A typical message board rant from a Floyd fanatic goes a little something like

Now that is untrue i have not see anyone mention Mayweather, having better resume than Robinson or Ali. Yes there are few fanatic Mayweather fans thinking this but most Mayweather fans like me and most boxing fans know Mayweather's isn't at that level yet, but he is one of the most talented boxers of all time, and he has one of the best records of his era.




Some of that is truth mixed in with sarcasim....but not very over exaggerated

[Bx730NY]

I think the most important thing is that not everyone who criticizes floyd is a hater but boxing fans who want bang for their buck.

Daxx makes a good point by saying that we shouldn't only apply that to floyd but he's the obvious choice since he's the one crying out for attention and saying he's the best.

It really is a good article and I will say this, if floyd fights and beats a great fighter in their prime in his weight, I will never question him. Until then,.........

[JT Rock]

I can appreciate what people are saying.... I have never said Floyd is the GOAT, but he certainly from a pure skill and technical standpoint is one of the Greatest of all time.

As much as this dikweeds proclomation of Pretty Boys most Floyd scrutinizers will knock Floyd and then venerate there fighter as the one Floyd has to beat to be great... Especially all that Margarito bullshit, Antonio aint even in the top 100 of alltime, then people are pulling Williams out of there azz like he is the 2nd coming and Cotto is as legitimate as can be, but lets not get to ahead of ourselves he has only beat a 37 year old Mosely and a mental midget Judah as his crown achievments.... Cotto has NEVER beat a young legitimate superstar fighter in his prime. Floyd has beat

Castillo 2x
Corrales
Hatton

Lets be serious here Floyd is not a GOAT but, people need to stop using that argument for an opportunity to grandstand Cotto and whoever the hell else people annoint as the latest and greatest Mayweather slayer

[Kev]

Ok allow me to play Devil's Advocate here and call the author of that little piece a fucktard.

His crappy little piece was just a snide at Floyd that didn't even need answering.

First off, who are these 'pretty boys' who proclaim that Floyd can walk on water, beat fighters with one hand tied behind his back and own any fighter who ever lived? I consider myself a hardcore insanely addicted boxing fan and yet I've never heard a single commentator, writer or respected expert say anything of the sort.

In fact the only comments made by experts concerning Floyd Mayweather are similarly snide remarks from hasbeens like Emmannuel (I can't train a fighter for S*** any more) Steward and Larry (all that Gin has clouded my brain and made me go all warm and fuzzy) Merchant.

In fact I'd like to be pointed in the direction of a single expert or boxing analyists writings proclaiming Floyd to be as good as Ray Robinson or Ali. I'm serious somebody please find me the link


Ok then, so now we;ve established that this fucktard author was 'responding' to claims of greatness that have never actually been made by anyone other than Floyd himself let's take this a step further.

He says that Floyd is not in the company of Ali, Robinson, Leonard etc and I agree he's not quite there YET.

For F***'s sake the guy is still in his prime and hasn't finished his career yet but some people still want to bash him and tell us how his legacy isn't as good as these other guys. WELL HELLO! HE'S STILL IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING HIS LEGACY DOUCHEBAG!!

Now let's look at his next statement. Boxers must fufil two criteria to be considered great.

1.) Fight the best available.
2.)Dominate 1 divison.

Here I completely disagree. This'fucktard' believes that it is better and more meaningful to dominate a crap division than it is to move up the weights. What kind of shitty logic is that?

So according to dogshite boxing writer if Floyd would have stayed at super featherweight and still remained undefeated his legacy would be better than in is?

Hmm ok, now doesn't this contradict rule 1. Fight the best available?

Now unless I'm mistaken Floyd HAS pretty much fought and beat the best available.

He beat Diego Coralles and Jose Luis Castillo who are clearly the best two lightweights in recent years. He's beaten Ricky Hatton who was the undisputed Ring Light welterweight champ, he's beaten Zab Judah who was considered the best welterweight in the world just a couple years ago and he's beaten Oscar De La Hoya who has won more titles in more weight classed than any other boxer in history and more impressively Floyd beat him whilst fighting 4 divisions above his original weight.

Now as for him not fighting the best at welterweight yet I readily agree he still has to face Miguel Cotto and possibly Paul Williams and Shane Mosely. Almost certainly he will.

And lets' not forget Cotto has only been at welterweight for around 12 months so there hasn't been time for that fight to happen yet, but rest assured it will.

The dogshite writer is also at pains to point out that remaining undefeated isn't that important. Well once again I beg to differ. OF COURSE IT'S IMPORTANT YOU THICK F****** DOGSHITE WRITER'

People who criticise Floyd always use his worst performances and compare them to the best performances of the greats. Look at his fight with Baldomir they say, where he ran all night, a real champion would have traded and gone for the knockout.

Well let's look at it like this. That was possibly Floyd's worst career performance and he still won and on most people's cards he won every F****** round.

Not let's compare to Ray Leonard's worst performance, getting KO'd by Hector Camacho or Roberto Duran, losing to Kirkland Laing or getting destroyed by Thomas Hearns.

Let's look at Ray Robinson losing his middleweight title to Randy Turpin and 4 other guys. Let's look at Ali almost getting KO'd by a journeyman Henry Cooper or almost coming unstuck against Doug Jones.

When you compare the worst peformances of any boxer in history to the worst performances of Floyd Mayweather well even the most biased observer will have to admit that Floyd ALWAYS performs.

He's never been knocked down (legitimately), never been beaten up, never even been truly extended.

It seems to me that if he would have been then his critics would rate him higher.

If anything Floyd's biggest problem has been that he is simply so much better than the competition that he is too good to be involved in the furious ring wars and toe to toe brawls that allowed his more illustrious predecessors to gain boxing immortality.

Anyway I'm harping on as this article really winded me up. I think it's worth stating that I don't myself regard Floyd on the level of Leonard, Duran, Robinson and Ali just yet, he still has more to do. But to criticise a fighter's legacy before he has even finished just seems a farcical thing to do.

But then I wouldn't expect anything more from a writer at dogshite boxing.

[Deanrw]

Ok allow me to play Devil's Advocate here and call the author of that little piece a fucktard.

His crappy little piece was just a snide at Floyd that didn't even need answering.

First off, who are these 'pretty boys' who proclaim that Floyd can walk on water, beat fighters with one hand tied behind his back and own any fighter who ever lived? I consider myself a hardcore insanely addicted boxing fan and yet I've never heard a single commentator, writer or respected expert say anything of the sort.

In fact the only comments made by experts concerning Floyd Mayweather are similarly snide remarks from hasbeens like Emmannuel (I can't train a fighter for S*** any more) Steward and Larry (all that Gin has clouded my brain and made me go all warm and fuzzy) Merchant.

In fact I'd like to be pointed in the direction of a single expert or boxing analyists writings proclaiming Floyd to be as good as Ray Robinson or Ali. I'm serious somebody please find me the link


Ok then, so now we;ve established that this fucktard author was 'responding' to claims of greatness that have never actually been made by anyone other than Floyd himself let's take this a step further.

He says that Floyd is not in the company of Ali, Robinson, Leonard etc and I agree he's not quite there YET.

For F***'s sake the guy is still in his prime and hasn't finished his career yet but some people still want to bash him and tell us how his legacy isn't as good as these other guys. WELL HELLO! HE'S STILL IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING HIS LEGACY DOUCHEBAG!!

Now let's look at his next statement. Boxers must fufil two criteria to be considered great.

1.) Fight the best available.
2.)Dominate 1 divison.

Here I completely disagree. This'fucktard' believes that it is better and more meaningful to dominate a crap division than it is to move up the weights. What kind of shitty logic is that?

So according to dogshite boxing writer if Floyd would have stayed at super featherweight and still remained undefeated his legacy would be better than in is?

Hmm ok, now doesn't this contradict rule 1. Fight the best available?

Now unless I'm mistaken Floyd HAS pretty much fought and beat the best available.

He beat Diego Coralles and Jose Luis Castillo who are clearly the best two lightweights in recent years. He's beaten Ricky Hatton who was the undisputed Ring Light welterweight champ, he's beaten Zab Judah who was considered the best welterweight in the world just a couple years ago and he's beaten Oscar De La Hoya who has won more titles in more weight classed than any other boxer in history and more impressively Floyd beat him whilst fighting 4 divisions above his original weight.

Now as for him not fighting the best at welterweight yet I readily agree he still has to face Miguel Cotto and possibly Paul Williams and Shane Mosely. Almost certainly he will.

And lets' not forget Cotto has only been at welterweight for around 12 months so there hasn't been time for that fight to happen yet, but rest assured it will.

The dogshite writer is also at pains to point out that remaining undefeated isn't that important. Well once again I beg to differ. OF COURSE IT'S IMPORTANT YOU THICK F****** DOGSHITE WRITER'

People who criticise Floyd always use his worst performances and compare them to the best performances of the greats. Look at his fight with Baldomir they say, where he ran all night, a real champion would have traded and gone for the knockout.

Well let's look at it like this. That was possibly Floyd's worst career performance and he still won and on most people's cards he won every F****** round.

Not let's compare to Ray Leonard's worst performance, getting KO'd by Hector Camacho or Roberto Duran, losing to Kirkland Laing or getting destroyed by Thomas Hearns.

Let's look at Ray Robinson losing his middleweight title to Randy Turpin and 4 other guys. Let's look at Ali almost getting KO'd by a journeyman Henry Cooper or almost coming unstuck against Doug Jones.

When you compare the worst peformances of any boxer in history to the worst performances of Floyd Mayweather well even the most biased observer will have to admit that Floyd ALWAYS performs.

He's never been knocked down (legitimately), never been beaten up, never even been truly extended.

It seems to me that if he would have been then his critics would rate him higher.

If anything Floyd's biggest problem has been that he is simply so much better than the competition that he is too good to be involved in the furious ring wars and toe to toe brawls that allowed his more illustrious predecessors to gain boxing immortality.

Anyway I'm harping on as this article really winded me up. I think it's worth stating that I don't myself regard Floyd on the level of Leonard, Duran, Robinson and Ali just yet, he still has more to do. But to criticise a fighter's legacy before he has even finished just seems a farcical thing to do.

But then I wouldn't expect anything more from a writer at dogshite boxing.

I agree with many of your points, but cannot agree with all of them.

Now unless I'm mistaken Floyd HAS pretty much fought and beat the best available. That is open for debate. Yes he did fight the best available at the lower weight classes, but has carefully selected his opponents for the past few years.

He beat Diego Coralles and Jose Luis Castillo who are clearly the best two lightweights in recent years. He's beaten Ricky Hatton who was the undisputed Ring Light welterweight champ, he's beaten Zab Judah who was considered the best welterweight in the world just a couple years ago and he's beaten Oscar De La Hoya who has won more titles in more weight classed than any other boxer in history and more impressively Floyd beat him whilst fighting 4 divisions above his original weight.
. I give him full props for beating Diego and Jose, they were great wins from a great fighter. Hatton was a fish out of water fighting at welterweight. Zab I think was just waiting to get beat. Oscar was also 4 divisions above his original weight and was past his prime, so I cannot call them great wins. Good wins yes, but not great wins.

He's never been knocked down (legitimately), never been beaten up, never even been truly extended. None of those points will determine if a fighter is to be considered great or not in my opinion. Great fighters have gotten knocked down, have gotten beaten up and have been extended. This is part of the reason Floyd gets picked on. He has not fought any other great fighters to test him. He fought some great names, but the ones he did were ages ago or past their prime. Boxing is kinda weak right now when it comes to talent. If you look in that other thread and compare now to the 80's for example, you will see what I mean. It is not all Floyd's fault that he has so many detractors, but he has to take some of the blame as he could have been out there setting up fights with the other young, hungry Welterweight champions instead of Hatton.