As weird as this sounds, I'm disappointed Froch won on Saturday

[bzkfn]

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

[Kev]

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

[bzkfn]

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

I thought Taylor stole round 11. Froch often had rounds in the bag and then got caught by some big shots. I found it a little alarming that he wasn't learning from his mistakes throughout the fight and was walking onto shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging his whole career on it. I just felt in his aftermath interview he was cocky, arrogant and didn't admit that he was nowhere near his best. I just worry he'll revert to this type from now on. Look at Hatton. They came up with a style to beat Tszyu and then his next 5 fights Graham had Hatton trying to maul every opponent he faced. I just felt he was poor on Saturday, and his power and Taylor's stamina totally bailed him out. I just hope he privately admits to his shortcomings and works on them for future, because you can't just walk in with your hands down when your reactions are as slow as his are.

[Kev]

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

I thought Taylor stole round 11. Froch often had rounds in the bag and then got caught by some big shots. I found it a little alarming that he wasn't learning from his mistakes throughout the fight and was walking onto shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging his whole career on it. I just felt in his aftermath interview he was cocky, arrogant and didn't admit that he was nowhere near his best. I just worry he'll revert to this type from now on. Look at Hatton. They came up with a style to beat Tszyu and then his next 5 fights Graham had Hatton trying to maul every opponent he faced. I just felt he was poor on Saturday, and his power and Taylor's stamina totally bailed him out. I just hope he privately admits to his shortcomings and works on them for future, because you can't just walk in with your hands down when your reactions are as slow as his are.

I imagine he won't likely change that much. He does it deliberately, he likes to lure opponents in and then catch them with his monster uppercuts. Taylor's speed gave him problems and it was a hard style matchup for him but he came through it.

I don't see anyone else at 168 who is as complete a boxer as Taylor so I don't think he will be outboxed as much as he was those 5 rounds.

Froch seems to fight to the level of his opposition, he's looked poor in several fights, Magee was outboxing him early, Robin Reid caught him several times, that's just the way he fights I guess.

He's not going to be looking at a 46-0 career like Joe Calzaghe, he's got definite flaws, but he's got as good a chance as any of unifying the 168 lb division and possibly moving up to challenge at 175.

I only see Kessler really giving him too much trouble, I'm extremely confident he handles everyone else.

[Tysonbruno]

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

[Taeth]

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

[bzkfn]

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

[Galaxy]

I am happier that Froch won rather than Taylor! Froch ain't the best fighter at 168 by a long shot & he's sure to run into trouble in the not to distant future but it will be a fun run all the way!

[Kev]

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

[Galaxy]

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

[Kev]

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

[Rantcatrat]

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

Maybe you are including him in that statement, but don't forget that Bute dominated Sakio Bika for 12 rounds. 2/3 judges had him winning 10 of 12 rounds. In the Andrade fight, he won every single round until the last one. He is a pure boxer and a southpaw who has decent height and reach for 168. Bute dominated Tatevosyan all 12 rounds before Froch beat him. Moreover, he knocked out Kabrery Salem who took Calzaghe 12 rounds to finish.

[Galaxy]

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

I rate Green too, I was disappointed with his performance vs Miranda but his health issues may have played a part. I always wanted to see a Green/ Mack fight when they were both at 168 & undefeated.

I also think Ward boxes cycles around Miranda!

But back to Froch, hes a solid guy in a solid division & will be tough for anyone around the weight!!!

[Master]

I am glad Froch won, Taylor put up a very good fight and would have beaten most super middles in the world on that performance.

[Kev]

I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

Maybe you are including him in that statement, but don't forget that Bute dominated Sakio Bika for 12 rounds. 2/3 judges had him winning 10 of 12 rounds. In the Andrade fight, he won every single round until the last one. He is a pure boxer and a southpaw who has decent height and reach for 168. Bute dominated Tatevosyan all 12 rounds before Froch beat him. Moreover, he knocked out Kabrery Salem who took Calzaghe 12 rounds to finish.

Yeah Bika was a decent win I guess, I don't see him as world class but he's a hard nights work for the world class if that makes sense.

I know Salem had been out for a year before he fough Bute but a ko win is a ko win.

I still don't see him as a hard hitter though, although he definitely has boxing ability and like you say beat Tatevosyan easily.

The two need to fight so we can settle this debate once and for all. I'm going all in on a Froch KO, I think he really puts a hurting on Bute, but I agree if he can't get to Lucian, Bute is definitely the better boxer and will likely coast to a hard fought but decisive points win.

But Froch is a Brit, he's my favourite fighter and the fight hasn't even been made yet so I can afford to be bullish