Froch is the favourite for Super Six Tournament

[BIG H]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

[Fenster]

Those odds haven't changed a jot since they were put up weeks ago (no money for it). They are with Hills.

Some of the other firms have Kessler favourite, Kessler/Froch joint fav.

I'd want 14/1 that this thing goes as planned. No chance.

[Bomp]

Those odds haven't changed a jot since they were put up weeks ago (no money for it). They are with Hills.

Some of the other firms have Kessler favourite, Kessler/Froch joint fav.

I'd want 14/1 that this thing goes as planned. No chance.

Partly why Froch may be above Kessler on some, as he's the most likely to be yanked out by legal shite.

[RP33]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

Taylor had Froch (the favorite) BEAT if he lasted another 12 seconds.. how can you say he "CAN'T" win it? Seems crazy to me.

TBH i see Kessler and Abraham as the favorites. I don't see Froch beating Kess and i think Abraham has a safer style for the rest of the fighters. Abraham Froch would be a HELL of a fight.

[Kev]

Maybe they have Froch as favourite becuase his meeting with Taylor is the only form guide we have, none of the others having met each other before.

KO'ing the former undisputed middleweight champion of the world, a fighter who has only ever been beaten by one other man (dodgy scorecards withstanding) is probably seen as great form going in to this.

Abraham at super middleweight is an unknown, also Miranda aside he's never fought an elite opponent.

Kessler lost to Calzaghe and has been pretty inactive since. Maybe he should be favourite, but its clear only Froch has a win over a p4p guy at this point.

Both Andre's are largely unknown quantities, Ward less so following his dominant win over Miranda, more impressive than Abraham's outings imo, although he's yet to fight at world class so we can't really put him above Artur.

I think the bookies have a tough time with this. Obviously in Britain many will be backing Froch, and as the only fighter to already have a win in this class, and by KO, it's understandable they have made him favourite.

Kessler is probably the most sensible choice if I had to pick, he is a proven performer at this level.

I guess Abraham would be at 3, but he's still yet to fight in this class, and has not yet fought at 168.

Taylor has the skills to beat them all, but in fading to Pavlik and now Froch, and barely hanging on against Winky Wright there are justifiably many doubts about his ability to last into the championship rounds so a risky choice to put money on.

The Andre's could both certainly do well, but we have no form guide to go on with them, especially Dirrell so they deserve to be the betting outsiders at this point.

[Kev]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

I actually agree with these odds entirely to be honest, at least from British bookies who stand to lose most if Froch wins.

Ward looks good money at 10/1, the way he completely and utterly outboxed Miranda would bode well for a fight with Froch and maybe Abraham who he could well outwork, especially in the early rounds.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Ward is most worth a bet at those odds, Taylor could potentially beat them all but the chances of him not being KO'd having to face virtually all of that lot is a very big gamble to take, I agree, as much as he could potentially beat any of them on his day, he's no way going to make it through all of them without being sparked at some point.

Taylor aside. Abraham and Froch to me are probably the most beatable. I can see the likes of Kessler and Ward outboxing both of them. Not saying they will, but that they have a great chance to.

Against this level of opposition it will be hard for Abraham I think who usually doesn't get going until about round 5. I can't see him being able to give away the first third of the fight at this level.

Froch could be outboxed by all of them although his power and will to win will see him through some of these fights.

But as he's going to have to go to the well for each fight it's a hard ask and a lot of physical toll on his body to slug toe to toe against all of this lot.

Kessler's jab could be the key to the whole event.

He's the man to beat imo, although Ward could cause problems, in some ways a shame they are fighting in the first round, I think Ward does well in this event.

[CFH]

Maybe they have Froch as favourite becuase his meeting with Taylor is the only form guide we have, none of the others having met each other before.

KO'ing the former undisputed middleweight champion of the world, a fighter who has only ever been beaten by one other man (dodgy scorecards withstanding) is probably seen as great form going in to this.

Abraham at super middleweight is an unknown, also Miranda aside he's never fought an elite opponent.

Kessler lost to Calzaghe and has been pretty inactive since. Maybe he should be favourite, but its clear only Froch has a win over a p4p guy at this point.

Both Andre's are largely unknown quantities, Ward less so following his dominant win over Miranda, more impressive than Abraham's outings imo, although he's yet to fight at world class so we can't really put him above Artur.

I think the bookies have a tough time with this. Obviously in Britain many will be backing Froch, and as the only fighter to already have a win in this class, and by KO, it's understandable they have made him favourite.

Kessler is probably the most sensible choice if I had to pick, he is a proven performer at this level.

I guess Abraham would be at 3, but he's still yet to fight in this class, and has not yet fought at 168.

Taylor has the skills to beat them all, but in fading to Pavlik and now Froch, and barely hanging on against Winky Wright there are justifiably many doubts about his ability to last into the championship rounds so a risky choice to put money on.

The Andre's could both certainly do well, but we have no form guide to go on with them, especially Dirrell so they deserve to be the betting outsiders at this point.

Who did Froch fight who was a P4P fighter? Taylor was far, far removed from that status and Pascal isn't even close.

Also, you found Ward's victory over Miranda better than Abraham's? I disagree there. The first Abraham - Miranda fight, while it could (and possibly should) have been a TKO, was an extremely impressive show of heart by Abraham and I think (ignore the TKO scenario) that even without the point deductions Abraham won. In the second fight, he absolutely schooled and then stopped Miranda. Ward's performance was good as well, but the version of Miranda he beat was a lot more known and exposed than the one Abraham defeated twice.

[Kev]

Maybe they have Froch as favourite becuase his meeting with Taylor is the only form guide we have, none of the others having met each other before.

KO'ing the former undisputed middleweight champion of the world, a fighter who has only ever been beaten by one other man (dodgy scorecards withstanding) is probably seen as great form going in to this.

Abraham at super middleweight is an unknown, also Miranda aside he's never fought an elite opponent.

Kessler lost to Calzaghe and has been pretty inactive since. Maybe he should be favourite, but its clear only Froch has a win over a p4p guy at this point.

Both Andre's are largely unknown quantities, Ward less so following his dominant win over Miranda, more impressive than Abraham's outings imo, although he's yet to fight at world class so we can't really put him above Artur.

I think the bookies have a tough time with this. Obviously in Britain many will be backing Froch, and as the only fighter to already have a win in this class, and by KO, it's understandable they have made him favourite.

Kessler is probably the most sensible choice if I had to pick, he is a proven performer at this level.

I guess Abraham would be at 3, but he's still yet to fight in this class, and has not yet fought at 168.

Taylor has the skills to beat them all, but in fading to Pavlik and now Froch, and barely hanging on against Winky Wright there are justifiably many doubts about his ability to last into the championship rounds so a risky choice to put money on.

The Andre's could both certainly do well, but we have no form guide to go on with them, especially Dirrell so they deserve to be the betting outsiders at this point.

Who did Froch fight who was a P4P fighter? Taylor was far, far removed from that status and Pascal isn't even close.

Also, you found Ward's victory over Miranda better than Abraham's? I disagree there. The first Abraham - Miranda fight, while it could (and possibly should) have been a TKO, was an extremely impressive show of heart by Abraham and I think (ignore the TKO scenario) that even without the point deductions Abraham won. In the second fight, he absolutely schooled and then stopped Miranda. Ward's performance was good as well, but the version of Miranda he beat was a lot more known and exposed than the one Abraham defeated twice.

Taylor was one fight removed p4p hardly far far removed. He's still a world class force and better than any other fighter that any of these guys have beat.

Who of the guys the others have beat would you rate above him?

Miranda?
Mundine?
Beyer?

The only other guy who has beaten fighters of real pedigree is Taylor, and Froch knocked him out.


As for Abraham schooling Miranda firstly I'm talking about both bouts. Ward handled him easily first time around, whereas Abraham went life and death in the first fight.

Secondly Abraham didn't school Miranda for the entirety of the second fight, you could make a case that Edison won all the first three rounds as Abraham started with his typically cagey slow opening style.

Once he had him hurt he took him apart for sure but he wasn't outboxing Miranda up to that point, far from it.

Ward is a better boxer than Abraham, but with considerably less power. When these two meet it will be exciting. If Ward can take Abraham's power he outworks him and wins a decision imo.

If not, then Abraham either finishes him or puts him in survival mode enough to win a UD.

[CFH]

Maybe they have Froch as favourite becuase his meeting with Taylor is the only form guide we have, none of the others having met each other before.

KO'ing the former undisputed middleweight champion of the world, a fighter who has only ever been beaten by one other man (dodgy scorecards withstanding) is probably seen as great form going in to this.

Abraham at super middleweight is an unknown, also Miranda aside he's never fought an elite opponent.

Kessler lost to Calzaghe and has been pretty inactive since. Maybe he should be favourite, but its clear only Froch has a win over a p4p guy at this point.

Both Andre's are largely unknown quantities, Ward less so following his dominant win over Miranda, more impressive than Abraham's outings imo, although he's yet to fight at world class so we can't really put him above Artur.

I think the bookies have a tough time with this. Obviously in Britain many will be backing Froch, and as the only fighter to already have a win in this class, and by KO, it's understandable they have made him favourite.

Kessler is probably the most sensible choice if I had to pick, he is a proven performer at this level.

I guess Abraham would be at 3, but he's still yet to fight in this class, and has not yet fought at 168.

Taylor has the skills to beat them all, but in fading to Pavlik and now Froch, and barely hanging on against Winky Wright there are justifiably many doubts about his ability to last into the championship rounds so a risky choice to put money on.

The Andre's could both certainly do well, but we have no form guide to go on with them, especially Dirrell so they deserve to be the betting outsiders at this point.

Who did Froch fight who was a P4P fighter? Taylor was far, far removed from that status and Pascal isn't even close.

Also, you found Ward's victory over Miranda better than Abraham's? I disagree there. The first Abraham - Miranda fight, while it could (and possibly should) have been a TKO, was an extremely impressive show of heart by Abraham and I think (ignore the TKO scenario) that even without the point deductions Abraham won. In the second fight, he absolutely schooled and then stopped Miranda. Ward's performance was good as well, but the version of Miranda he beat was a lot more known and exposed than the one Abraham defeated twice.

Taylor was one fight removed p4p hardly far far removed. He's still a world class force and better than any other fighter that any of these guys have beat.

Who of the guys the others have beat would you rate above him?

Miranda?
Mundine?
Beyer?

The only other guy who has beaten fighters of real pedigree is Taylor, and Froch knocked him out.


As for Abraham schooling Miranda firstly I'm talking about both bouts. Ward handled him easily first time around, whereas Abraham went life and death in the first fight.

Secondly Abraham didn't school Miranda for the entirety of the second fight, you could make a case that Edison won all the first three rounds as Abraham started with his typically cagey slow opening style.

Once he had him hurt he took him apart for sure but he wasn't outboxing Miranda up to that point, far from it.

Ward is a better boxer than Abraham, but with considerably less power. When these two meet it will be exciting. If Ward can take Abraham's power he outworks him and wins a decision imo.

If not, then Abraham either finishes him or puts him in survival mode enough to win a UD.

Taylor was more than once fight removed from P4P status. More than a few lists I saw dropped him from their top 10 after the Spinks fight. Regardless of when he was dropped, he hasn't been considered a top 10 P4P fighter since 2007.

Re: Miranda

The first fight between Abraham and Miranda was close (made much close because of the broken jaw IMO), but at that point Miranda was a completely unknown entity and a much better opponent as a result of that. Miranda made his name on that first fight. As soon as Pavlik, and later Abraham, beat him the mystique had been undone. Even following the Pavlik loss, many people (perhaps a majority) were picking him to beat Abraham in the rematch. Abraham travelled to his backyard, and yes took him to school. Abraham did little offensively for the first three rounds, but even with him in full on defensive mode Miranda didn't land a single clean punch the entire fight. As soon as he started opening up in round 4, Abraham countered him and knocked him out. He was comprehensively outboxed and outthought the entire fight. By the time Ward fought him, he was a badly exposed fighter who no longer was able to intimidate his opponents. Not to take anything away from Ward - it was a solid, well-fought victory, but in my mind it was far less impressive than the two Abraham victories.

[Kev]

Who did Froch fight who was a P4P fighter? Taylor was far, far removed from that status and Pascal isn't even close.

Also, you found Ward's victory over Miranda better than Abraham's? I disagree there. The first Abraham - Miranda fight, while it could (and possibly should) have been a TKO, was an extremely impressive show of heart by Abraham and I think (ignore the TKO scenario) that even without the point deductions Abraham won. In the second fight, he absolutely schooled and then stopped Miranda. Ward's performance was good as well, but the version of Miranda he beat was a lot more known and exposed than the one Abraham defeated twice.

Taylor was one fight removed p4p hardly far far removed. He's still a world class force and better than any other fighter that any of these guys have beat.

Who of the guys the others have beat would you rate above him?

Miranda?
Mundine?
Beyer?

The only other guy who has beaten fighters of real pedigree is Taylor, and Froch knocked him out.


As for Abraham schooling Miranda firstly I'm talking about both bouts. Ward handled him easily first time around, whereas Abraham went life and death in the first fight.

Secondly Abraham didn't school Miranda for the entirety of the second fight, you could make a case that Edison won all the first three rounds as Abraham started with his typically cagey slow opening style.

Once he had him hurt he took him apart for sure but he wasn't outboxing Miranda up to that point, far from it.

Ward is a better boxer than Abraham, but with considerably less power. When these two meet it will be exciting. If Ward can take Abraham's power he outworks him and wins a decision imo.

If not, then Abraham either finishes him or puts him in survival mode enough to win a UD.

Taylor was more than once fight removed from P4P status. More than a few lists I saw dropped him from their top 10 after the Spinks fight. Regardless of when he was dropped, he hasn't been considered a top 10 P4P fighter since 2007.

Re: Miranda

The first fight between Abraham and Miranda was close (made much close because of the broken jaw IMO), but at that point Miranda was a completely unknown entity and a much better opponent as a result of that. Miranda made his name on that first fight. As soon as Pavlik, and later Abraham, beat him the mystique had been undone. Even following the Pavlik loss, many people (perhaps a majority) were picking him to beat Abraham in the rematch. Abraham travelled to his backyard, and yes took him to school. Abraham did little offensively for the first three rounds, but even with him in full on defensive mode Miranda didn't land a single clean punch the entire fight. As soon as he started opening up in round 4, Abraham countered him and knocked him out. He was comprehensively outboxed and outthought the entire fight. By the time Ward fought him, he was a badly exposed fighter who no longer was able to intimidate his opponents. Not to take anything away from Ward - it was a solid, well-fought victory, but in my mind it was far less impressive than the two Abraham victories.

You neatly sidestepped my first question.

Who better than Taylor have ANY of the other guys beaten?

If you want to insist he hasn't been p4p for the last two years, name a single opponent any of the other guys has beat who has EVER been in the p4p?

None of the other guys Froch and Taylor withstanding, have beaten a p4p fighter, either p4p present or p4p at any time in their careers. My point still stands.

If you disagree then point out which opponents on the resume's of Ward, Dirrel, Abraham and Kessler is a better win then KO'ing Jermain Taylor?

[CFH]

Taylor was one fight removed p4p hardly far far removed. He's still a world class force and better than any other fighter that any of these guys have beat.

Who of the guys the others have beat would you rate above him?

Miranda?
Mundine?
Beyer?

The only other guy who has beaten fighters of real pedigree is Taylor, and Froch knocked him out.


As for Abraham schooling Miranda firstly I'm talking about both bouts. Ward handled him easily first time around, whereas Abraham went life and death in the first fight.

Secondly Abraham didn't school Miranda for the entirety of the second fight, you could make a case that Edison won all the first three rounds as Abraham started with his typically cagey slow opening style.

Once he had him hurt he took him apart for sure but he wasn't outboxing Miranda up to that point, far from it.

Ward is a better boxer than Abraham, but with considerably less power. When these two meet it will be exciting. If Ward can take Abraham's power he outworks him and wins a decision imo.

If not, then Abraham either finishes him or puts him in survival mode enough to win a UD.

Taylor was more than once fight removed from P4P status. More than a few lists I saw dropped him from their top 10 after the Spinks fight. Regardless of when he was dropped, he hasn't been considered a top 10 P4P fighter since 2007.

Re: Miranda

The first fight between Abraham and Miranda was close (made much close because of the broken jaw IMO), but at that point Miranda was a completely unknown entity and a much better opponent as a result of that. Miranda made his name on that first fight. As soon as Pavlik, and later Abraham, beat him the mystique had been undone. Even following the Pavlik loss, many people (perhaps a majority) were picking him to beat Abraham in the rematch. Abraham travelled to his backyard, and yes took him to school. Abraham did little offensively for the first three rounds, but even with him in full on defensive mode Miranda didn't land a single clean punch the entire fight. As soon as he started opening up in round 4, Abraham countered him and knocked him out. He was comprehensively outboxed and outthought the entire fight. By the time Ward fought him, he was a badly exposed fighter who no longer was able to intimidate his opponents. Not to take anything away from Ward - it was a solid, well-fought victory, but in my mind it was far less impressive than the two Abraham victories.

You neatly sidestepped my first question.

Who better than Taylor have ANY of the other guys beaten?

If you want to insist he hasn't been p4p for the last two years, name a single opponent any of the other guys has beat who has EVER been in the p4p?

None of the other guys Froch and Taylor withstanding, have beaten a p4p fighter, either p4p present or p4p at any time in their careers. My point still stands.

If you disagree then point out which opponents on the resume's of Ward, Dirrel, Abraham and Kessler is a better win then KO'ing Jermain Taylor?

I ignored it because it wasn't relevant to the discussion we were having. We were talking about Taylor's P4P status and Ward/Abraham's victories over Miranda.

No one in the tournament has beaten anyone better than Jermaine Taylor. However, that doesn't necessarily make Froch the best fight in the tournament.

[Rantcatrat]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

I actually agree with these odds entirely to be honest, at least from British bookies who stand to lose most if Froch wins.

Ward looks good money at 10/1, the way he completely and utterly outboxed Miranda would bode well for a fight with Froch and maybe Abraham who he could well outwork, especially in the early rounds.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Ward is most worth a bet at those odds, Taylor could potentially beat them all but the chances of him not being KO'd having to face virtually all of that lot is a very big gamble to take, I agree, as much as he could potentially beat any of them on his day, he's no way going to make it through all of them without being sparked at some point.

Taylor aside. Abraham and Froch to me are probably the most beatable. I can see the likes of Kessler and Ward outboxing both of them. Not saying they will, but that they have a great chance to.

Against this level of opposition it will be hard for Abraham I think who usually doesn't get going until about round 5. I can't see him being able to give away the first third of the fight at this level.

Froch could be outboxed by all of them although his power and will to win will see him through some of these fights.

But as he's going to have to go to the well for each fight it's a hard ask and a lot of physical toll on his body to slug toe to toe against all of this lot.

Kessler's jab could be the key to the whole event.

He's the man to beat imo, although Ward could cause problems, in some ways a shame they are fighting in the first round, I think Ward does well in this event.

Ward wasn't able to knock out Miranda who was previously knocked out by Pavlik (1st) and Abraham (2nd). Ward may not have the punching power at the elite level and the tournament favors knockouts; knockouts get the winner 3 points as opposed to 2. He risks winning fights and still being eliminated. Abraham and Froch are arguably the biggest punchers of the bunch, but as mentioned each has weaknesses. Kessler has to be the favorite because he is a proven commodity at 168 and (outside of JT) has faced the best competitio. Yet even Kessler has questions marks - his inactivity and inability to face elite competition since his loss to Calzaghe. Dirrell hasn't shown me enough in his career to show me he has what it takes to win this one. He'll be a good pick if he blows by Froch in Nottingham.

[Fenster]

Those odds haven't changed a jot since they were put up weeks ago (no money for it). They are with Hills.

Some of the other firms have Kessler favourite, Kessler/Froch joint fav.

I'd want 14/1 that this thing goes as planned. No chance.

Partly why Froch may be above Kessler on some, as he's the most likely to be yanked out by legal shite.

Yeah there must be a great chance this thing doesn't get close to being completed.

But Froch is the favourite because he's the Brit (with a Brit bookie pricing it up), so will obviously attract the patriotic (mug) money, making him a loser for the bookies.

Dirrell has to be worth a bet at 14/1 purely because should he beat Froch his price will tumble big time, not just in the outright market but also in his next matches.

I am a shit gambler. Fact.

[BIG H]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

Taylor had Froch (the favorite) BEAT if he lasted another 12 seconds.. how can you say he "CAN'T" win it? Seems crazy to me.

TBH i see Kessler and Abraham as the favorites. I don't see Froch beating Kess and i think Abraham has a safer style for the rest of the fighters. Abraham Froch would be a HELL of a fight.

Well if Taylor hd've lasted 12 more seconds (which is completely irrelevant coz he didn't and he got KTFO) I would've given a 10-7 round to Froch and scored it a draw

[El Kabong]

Carl Froch7/4
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1


I think Taylor is the only one that CAN'T win it!!

TAYLOR?!?! I think Ward doesn't have much of a shot either, his competition of late isn't the best.

I think the smart money is on Kessler or Abraham....or Dirrell whom at those odds, I really like.

How is the second round going to go Who fights who next and does someone get a bye