GSP in Pride

[Themantonio]

First of all happy new yr everybody! I'm so sorry to bring an MMA conversation into a boxing forum but I have tried chatting on other MMA forums and they are just a bunch of hyp head MMA nut hugging wankers.

What can I say, I love this forum and all the people and their opinions...

Those who kno me kno I'm a boxing fan first and foremost but while boxing has quietened down alittle bit (as we w8 for Pacquiao/Mayweather haha), I do watch my MMA in particularly UFC.

Ok, so to my question for you guys...

GSP is regarded as the best pound4pound MMA fighter in the world 2day... When I say 2day I also mean 2days regulatory MMA/UFC rules as well, KEEP THIS IN MIND. I beleive he is so effective coz he is a well disciplined MMAist but also very conservative in how he fights and uses todays rules and regulations perfectly with his gameplan 4 each opponent.

I wanna know how you guys think a pretty boy like George would have went in the old skool more open (ruled) Pride days? Already been knocked out by Matt Sera, would GSP succumb to more aggressive styled fighter and agressive/open rules of Pride?

[VictorCharlie]

I don't think the rules would have made much difference. Long 1st round, stomps, soccer kicks, strikes to downed opponent wouldn't have nearly the effect of the weight classes. GSP is not a big WW. GSP's wrestling is really awesome and while Pride had a hell of a great stable of fighters they didn't have anyone that comes to mind at other than Henderson with GSP's kind of wrestling. If he could come in at 161 then he would have been even more tremendous. If he had to fight at 183 then I don't think he would have as many wins or dominant legacy.

[Captain America]

GSP passes guard m

[Captain America]

Shit, sorry about that! ^

GSP passes guard more often than not when he tries. He'd take the easy transition from side mount to north/south and rain down the knees. The only difference would be his number of stoppages. 183 lbs shouldn't be an issue, most Japanese fighters don't cut much, if any, weight, GSP wouldn't be at a huge disadvantage from size for the most part. Today's wrestlers would have mauled people in Pride. Guys like Coleman and Randleman refused to cross train properly, the only cross trained wrestler that comes to mind in Pride was Hendo, look how well he did

[VictorCharlie]

Lets for argument sake say that GSP had been in Pride and fought at 183. Do you think he would have beaten Wanderlei and Hendo? The man is awesome but I would have to think long and hard about picking him over those two during that time frame.

[Nameless]

GSP is perhaps the most complete MMA fighter at the moment and sure in the top 3 of the sport. However, as Van Child said, GSP is not a big WW and when you want to fight against the top machines at 183, size become a factor. As much as I admire GSP, I wouldn't bet all my money on him against the 180 + top fighters.

[mattboxingfan]

GSP would out wrestle most in Pride if they were closer to his weight however he would be outweighed by most. He wouldn't be as affective as he is now in the UFC because if your referring to the no weight classes in in the original UFC and old Pride then no he would be out muscled.

[donnydarkoIRL]

GSP is more well conditioned than nearly all opposition and given his ability to control the action and pace of a fight he would thrive on the longer first rounds.
The men who fought in Pride were less rounded fighters so the guys from the past would actually have major problems with Georges.

The weight would be an issue, but as Georges has been so hesitant to commit to a move to 185, if forced we would see a much larger athlete.

[Captain America]

Wanderlei was 205 in Pride, and Sheilds (also not a large WW) damn near put Dan into retirement. I think if GSP fought Hendo 10 times (both at their peak) it'd be a split. Hendo has great wrestling when he isn't trying to knock your head off, and some of the heaviest hands in the game. If Hendo lands, GSP loses, if Hendo misses, GSP takes him down and dominates.

But who are these massive 183'ers that would dwarf GSP? Chonnan, Gono and Baroni have all fought at 170. Bustamonte, Ninja, Kang, Misaki, and Mousasi (at the time) aren't huge. Fhilo and Hendo are the only ones that are really larger than GSP (remember, he cuts from around 190), and if his choices were 161 or 183, you can bet your ass he'd gain whatever he needed to make 183 comfortably. His hesitation with 185 is that it'd be a permanent move, he'd take time off and build up properly. Not to mention guys like Sonnen, Okami, Silva, and Palhares are fucking massive for 185, but those monsters didn't exist one Pride's 183 division

[donnydarkoIRL]

Wanderlei was 205 in Pride, and Sheilds (also not a large WW) damn near put Dan into retirement. I think if GSP fought Hendo 10 times (both at their peak) it'd be a split. Hendo has great wrestling when he isn't trying to knock your head off, and some of the heaviest hands in the game. If Hendo lands, GSP loses, if Hendo misses, GSP takes him down and dominates.

But who are these massive 183'ers that would dwarf GSP? Chonnan, Gono and Baroni have all fought at 170. Bustamonte, Ninja, Kang, Misaki, and Mousasi (at the time) aren't huge. Fhilo and Hendo are the only ones that are really larger than GSP (remember, he cuts from around 190), and if his choices were 161 or 183, you can bet your ass he'd gain whatever he needed to make 183 comfortably. His hesitation with 185 is that it'd be a permanent move, he'd take time off and build up properly. Not to mention guys like Sonnen, Okami, Silva, and Palhares are fucking massive for 185, but those monsters didn't exist one Pride's 183 division

Shields cut 30 pounds in two days before his UFC debut. That would have Shields walking around over 200 lbs, thats as big (if not bigger) than Alves.
As for his fight with Hendo, I think we all agree Henderson's best days were far in the past.

As for GSP his walking around weight is circa 200 with a low bodyfat %

[Captain America]

Shields had to cut so much because he didn't diet down to a proper weight first. He hadn't fought at 170 since October of 2008, he'd gotten bigger to fight bigger guys. He and GSP will be similarly sized come fight time.

And I know Henderson had all sorts of problems going into that fight, but that's not Shields' fault, Hendo was still ranked top 3-5 at 185 when they fought, and I'd be willing to bet that GSP embarrasses Shields worse than Shields did Hendo.

GSP will be fine at 185, if he ever makes the move. The only guys I forsee him having issue with are Chael (much bigger, at least as good of a wrestler), Palhares (bigger, BJJ monster, but I'd still pick st. Pierre), Silva (much bigger, great stand up, good off his back), Okami (much bigger, at least as good of a wrestler, different style due to Judo base), and Hendo (POWER and wrestling). He'll easily be top 5 at MW.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Captain,

Yes he did not diet correctly, but that still makes him a very large man at 200lbs+
Your argument that Shields is not a big WW seems implausible as you yourself say that he added size to fight opponents at a higher weight class.

I think it is testament to how good Henderson was that he remained among the top 5 in the world before he fought Shields, but in actuality the Henderson that fought Shields was a mere shadow of the Henderson that fought in Pride. Like his old stablemate Couture, Dan has achieved a lot and had amazing longevity, but he is at the tail end of his career.

I don't know at all about GSP at 185. I really don't know what to expect there.

[Captain America]

Trueno

Yeah, I sounded like a retard there, sorry. I meant that Shields had to gain weight to fight Lawlor, Meyham and Hendo. He was fighting out of his weight class, now that he's back at WW he'll drop back to his "natural" weight. He was out sized in each of his last three fights, he's not a MW sized fighter. That's what I meant.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Trueno

Yeah, I sounded like a retard there, sorry. I meant that Shields had to gain weight to fight Lawlor, Meyham and Hendo. He was fighting out of his weight class, now that he's back at WW he'll drop back to his "natural" weight. He was out sized in each of his last three fights, he's not a MW sized fighter. That's what I meant.

Oh understood, I definitely agree with that, no need to apologise bro