Top Ten Heavyweights of All Time

[Master]

Name your Top Ten Heavyweights of All Time and does Usyk get in now?

1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Jack Johnson
8. Mike Tyson
9. Wlad
10. Usyk

[ykdadamaja]

Name your Top Ten Heavyweights of All Time and does Usyk get in now?

1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Jack Johnson
8. Mike Tyson
9. Wlad
10. Usyk

Good list.

[Mark TKO]

Can't argue with names on that list. I'll have a think myself and post later.

Struggle where to put Louis, Johnson and Dempsey etc as we never saw them fight. Not their fault of course! And not mine either....

[Spicoli]

I think as I got older I get lost in the criteria and subjectivity that goes in all time stuff. Almost like the current p4p. In a weird way if I'm judging on something like number of belts and defenses it can much different than if ranked on best fighters defeated and competition. Off the top I'd set Usyk aside only as he's a still active fighter, maybe it's a copout but more of appreciation . Can see Ali, Louis, Lewis-Holmes (switch either) but then it gets interesting. Most certainly am putting Holyfield over Frazier, Foreman and Tyson with respect to vs-vs hypotheticals imo and well, he did beat two of them. Save all the "not in primes stuff" . But that's just me. Also we tend to go by what we've "lived" live and it's natural. It's like the old debates with Mick and I'm saying Greb was at the very top in different division . Good times. Meanwhile as much as we read and look over records fight per fight, and it has value and wish more fans kept at it, seeing is also believing. Our eyes do not deceive as opposed to something we've just heard about. Fair to say we all wish there was much more footage of the early greats. Ironic really. Today we have 24-7 coverage and almost too much exposure to below average guys, meanwhile the Johnsons, Dempseys, Wills, or Tunney's can be sparse on film. So for what's it worth and sure this will change when I think on it more, Ali-Louis-Lewis-Holmes-Holyfield-Foreman-Johnson-Tyson-Liston-Frazier.

[Master]

These are my reasons for the list and order

1. Ali – beat 3 greats Liston, Frazier and Foreman, Olympic Gold
2. Joe Louis – record 25 defences and could have been more if not WW2, 11 year reign
3. Larry Holmes – 20 defences 7-year reign
4. Lennox Lewis – undisputed, Olympic Gold
5. George Foreman - Olympic Gold, beat Frazier, regained title after 20 years
6. Joe Frazier - Olympic Gold, 6 years reign
7. Jack Johnson- 7-year reign, way ahead of his time
8. Mike Tyson – youngest champ, undisputed, 9 defences, icon.
9. Wlad – 9 year reign, 23 defences, Olympic Gold
10. Usyk – undisputed 2 weights, Olympic Gold

[Master]

Duke McKenzie said Usyk deserves to be in the all-time top 20 [best] heavyweights in the world, but we don't know where he sits in that top 20,"

"Your Fraziers, Foremans, Alis - then you have Lennox Lewis, your Tysons, Riddick Bowe, your Evander Holyfields, there's a lot of guys that would've given Usyk a lot of trouble that aren't the real big names."

Spencer Oliver chimed in: "Someone like Joe Frazier, who was relentless, but was a little bit predictable... Someone like Usyk who had that skill set, and you're talking about size and all that, you have to put Usyk as a massive favourite over Frazier.

"Usyk puts his name in that argument, even with the Muhammad Ali's, because of what he's done.

McKenzie concluded: "That's what I'm saying, he's in the top 20!"

https://talksport.com/boxing/3436880...-muhammad-ali/

[Mark TKO]

Duke McKenzie said Usyk deserves to be in the all-time top 20 [best] heavyweights in the world, but we don't know where he sits in that top 20,"

"Your Fraziers, Foremans, Alis - then you have Lennox Lewis, your Tysons, Riddick Bowe, your Evander Holyfields, there's a lot of guys that would've given Usyk a lot of trouble that aren't the real big names."

Spencer Oliver chimed in: "Someone like Joe Frazier, who was relentless, but was a little bit predictable... Someone like Usyk who had that skill set, and you're talking about size and all that, you have to put Usyk as a massive favourite over Frazier.

"Usyk puts his name in that argument, even with the Muhammad Ali's, because of what he's done.

McKenzie concluded: "That's what I'm saying, he's in the top 20!"

https://talksport.com/boxing/3436880...-muhammad-ali/

totally get this view ! It's very difficult - especially given his contemporaries

AJ, Dubois and Chisora are nowhere near an all time top ten - and Fury is his best win and that was razor thin the first time and I still say the second could have gone either way despite the four points the judges gave. We have to be thankful we got the last 20 seconds of round 9 in the first fight to give us something to differentiate them (and without it Fury would have won the first one). I would love to see a third and Fury getting KTFO now.

I get sick of other, less knowledgeable casuals, thinking Tyson in his prime would have destroyed Ali. Tyson wouldn't have got anywhere near him and would have looked an embarrassed pathetic, sorry figure by the later rounds

so for me it's

1) Ali
2) Lewis
3) Louis
4) Holmes
5) Foreman
6) Frazier
7) Johnson (basing that of course on what I've read not what I know !)
Holyfield
9) Liston
10) It's tough here - any from Usyk, Tyson, Dempsey, Bruno, Marciano etc etc....

And then again I think a prime Fury gives anyone on that list major problems - as I've said before imo the Fury who beat Wlad and Wilder II beats Usyk.

I can't see what Usyk can do to get himself any higher really - there's no challenges there

Top four easy to select though !

[Primo Carnera]

I’ll have to have a good think about it, but what I will say is ……If Usyk was British, the majority of this forum would have him in their top 5.

[Mark TKO]

I'm trying to find a reason to put Usyk higher. I can't. It's the standard of opposition and comprehensive wins. Fury is the only one on his list anywhere near that all time top ten. Not his fault.

Has he knocked any heavies out apart from Dubois?

As far as boxing IQs, ring craftsmanship go though etc he's right up there.

[Primo Carnera]

So here goes. It could change tomorrow, but this is how I see it tonight.

Carnera
Louis
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield
Usyk
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
W. Klitschko

[Mark TKO]

And undisputed to me is just politics. We all knew he was better than Dubois. Yeah Lewis did it but again politics allowed it to happen - then not for however many years.

[Master]

Evander Holyfied was undisputed at 2 weights and beat Mike Tyson as well as an old Holmes.

However, he was inconsistent as champ and lost to Bowe, Moorer and Lennox during his best years.

I think Evander would have won a great fight against Usyk at cruiserweight but lost to him at heavyweight.

[TitoFan]

Good thread.

Well... emboldened by Primo's list with Carnera at #1 (proving there are no wrong choices here) ... I hereby submit my own list (complete with inaccuracies and biases)


1. Ali (slam dunk choice)
2. Louis (ditto)
3. Lewis (In his peak as dominant as any fighter out there. Avenged both of his knockout losses.)
4. Foreman (A beast. Beat many fighters by fear alone. Knocked out some impressive opponents. Came back years later to regain the title.)
5. Wlad (He could be boring as hell. But like Foreman, beat many fighters by fear alone. After Louis, the longest reign as defending champion.)
6. Frazier (Only lost to the very best: Ali and Foreman. But he beat Ali in The Fight of the Century in 1971.)
7. Marciano (Didn't see him on any lists, but deserves a spot. Something to be said for retiring undefeated.)
8. Usyk (Tough to ignore. He's beaten the best the division has to offer, which admittedly isn't a golden era of heavyweight boxing.)
9. Tyson (Another beast. Brought many fans to boxing with his style. At his peak could arguably beat anybody.)
10. Holmes (YEP... I'm biased. Never liked this guy cause he talks way too much. First class whiner. Was lucky to come in as Ali was wasting away as a fighter. He's lucky I put him in at #10.)

[TIC]

muhammad ali
joe louis
jack johnson
george foreman
joe frazier
larry holmes
lennox lewis
sonny liston
oleksandr usyk
evander holyfield

i left off sam Langford, harry willis, joe jeanette, sam mcvey who could all make top seven

[Master]

I was watching some videos of Sonny Liston since he is on the list of a number of posters. He sure was a beast and had 84-inch reach with a ram rod jab that would knock you off your feet.

Sonny influenced George Foreman to act in an intimidating manner when he became champion.

Liston had links to organised crime and was harassed by the Police; some incidents led to him being charged and suspended from boxing for a short time. Sonny was labelled an unsavoury heavyweight which definitely led to a delay in receiving his chance to fight Floyd Patterson for the world title whom he annihilated twice to win and defend the title. His peak years were 1958-1963.

Ali certainly beat many great heavyweights, and Sonny was one of them. Should he be penalised for that?

Usyk would have a nightmare handling him.