Some random information I picked up watching 1900's fights.

[El Gamo]

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

[Mr. Cosell]

From what I've read about the Ketchel vs Johnson fight, it seems like it was more of a publicity stunt where they were really meant to just put on a show but Ketchel got it in his head mid way through the fight that he could catch Johnson off his guard and take him out... which is what happened. Apprarently Johnson was so pissed that Ketchel stopped playing along that he got up and wound up having to pick Ketchel's teeth out of his glove.... bad idea Stanley...

[ross]

Yeah some tough little bat*rds back then

One thing to keep in mind though is the padding in the gloves, alot less than todays, so someone like Floyd who does get caught evey now and then would most likey go down v pac man but the padding today allows for fighters to make these mistakes

Especially the gigantic kids inflatable gloves floyd wore v Zab, compare those babys to those of the fights you are watching

[El Gamo]

From what I've read about the Ketchel vs Johnson fight, it seems like it was more of a publicity stunt where they were really meant to just put on a show but Ketchel got it in his head mid way through the fight that he could catch Johnson off his guard and take him out... which is what happened. Apprarently Johnson was so pissed that Ketchel stopped playing along that he got up and wound up having to pick Ketchel's teeth out of his glove.... bad idea Stanley...

Are you sure? The commentator was talking about the hate they had for each other before the fight. Maybe it was hype?

[SweetPea]

Regarding Ketchel-Johnson...

The two fighters made a deal. Johnson would not try to hurt Ketchel (who was only a middleweight), and would purposely let the fight drag out and go the distance. In exchange, Ketchel wouldn't try to throw many punches, and would let Johnson win a decision.

For some reason, Ketchel decided to throw an enormous right hand, and he knocked Johnson down. Johnson was stunned by the punch because the agreement was to not try to hurt one another, so he was never expecting the punch.

Johnson got pissed, got up, and knocked Ketchel out cold with one punch.

[El Gamo]

Regarding Ketchel-Johnson...

The two fighters made a deal. Johnson would not try to hurt Ketchel (who was only a middleweight), and would purposely let the fight drag out and go the distance. In exchange, Ketchel wouldn't try to throw many punches, and would let Johnson win a decision.

For some reason, Ketchel decided to throw an enormous right hand, and he knocked Johnson down. Johnson was stunned by the punch because the agreement was to not try to hurt one another, so he was never expecting the punch.

Johnson got pissed, got up, and knocked Ketchel out cold with one punch.

CC's all around. Thankyou Sweetpea,that's amazing! I mean that ko was BRUTAL!! Anyone know about the Benny Leonard-Lew Tendler no decision rule?

[SweetPea]

Gamo, if you're interested in Jack Johnson, you should watch the 4 hour documentary that was made about him a few years ago by Ken Burns.

Here's the youtube link to the first part of the movie. It's divided into about 30 parts because it's a long documentary, but there's one guy who has the whole thing on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUo9gIp3cRg

[Kev]

From what I've read about the Ketchel vs Johnson fight, it seems like it was more of a publicity stunt where they were really meant to just put on a show but Ketchel got it in his head mid way through the fight that he could catch Johnson off his guard and take him out... which is what happened. Apprarently Johnson was so pissed that Ketchel stopped playing along that he got up and wound up having to pick Ketchel's teeth out of his glove.... bad idea Stanley...

Are you sure? The commentator was talking about the hate they had for each other before the fight. Maybe it was hype?

Yup what the others say is completely true.For the pre fight publicity they even had Ketchel wear special extra heeled shoes to make him look taller to hype the fight.

Back in those days the fights were the biggest thing to be seen on the cinema screens but fights were only shown on the cinema if they went on for loads of rounds so the paying public got their money's worth so they agreed between them for it to be an exhibition.

Thats why so many of Jack Johnsons fights lasted for over 20 rounds, he simply carried guys to make more money from the cinema tickets.

His opponents would be trying to win and he'd just play with them until he'd put enough rounds in the bank and then turn up the heat.

That's why he's one of my favourite fighters ever, just an awesome fighter who could toy with opponents at will.

[Kev]

As for Carpentier he was pretty extraordinary. Turning pro at 13 or 14 he was war hero in France and winning all their highest military honours as a fighter pilot in world war one.

He was also a top referee from the age of about 16 or 17 and refereed world title fights.
Oh and a movie star too

Jack Dempsey fucked him up pretty bad but he's one of the most interesting characters from the early years of boxing and probably the only decent non soccer playing athlete that those garliky frog eaters have ever produced.

Just a shame he was French as he's clearly too good for such a mediocre country

[Dark Lord Al]

Yea the Johnson Ketchel fight was rigged , but i would say Sam Peter hits harder than Jack Johnson , so how good must former middleweight James Toneys chin be ?as Johnson picked himself up and 1 shot KOED Ketchel ?

[Puerto Rican Punch]

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

Sometimes we focus on the current fighters and forgot about all the sport's beauty from the past. There are great stories and fights that are a great learning experience, and enjoyable. I love to watch ESPN Classics, which is showing great fights lately. This deserves a CC.

[Puerto Rican Punch]

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!
[/quote]

This was a difficult research, but I learned a lot about boxing history in my quest. This may be the answer to your question:

The State of New Jersey (site of the July 27, 1922, match) had a “no-decision law” that meant a champion could only lose his title by a knockout.

[Canvasback]

If you watch the film of the Johnson/Ketchel fight you can see Johnson holding Ketchel up several times after he hit him with some good punches. Supposedly the fight was rigged so both fighters would get a big pay day. Ketchel apparently went off the script and tried to KO Johnson with a big punch that caused Johnson to go down. When Johnson got back up Ketchel rushed in and got knocked cold. It's pretty eeiry watching Johnson brushing Ketchel's teeth out of his glove.

[SalTheButcher]

I was watching the French fighter,Georges Carpentier and the commentator mentioned he won EVERY FRENCH TITLE FROM BANTAMWEIGHT to HW?! What hell?!!?

I also just saw Ted Lewis,a 5foot5 WW,fighting a 200 pound HW,a difference of 56 pounds or so and KO him?!!?!?

And I just saw a really cool fight of Stanley Ketchel,the best MW fight Jack Johnson,the best HW?! Amazing ending,Ketchel dropped Johnson!!!? Then Johnson got right back up and KTFO Ketchel! I thought Ketchel was unconscious!

I know it's random information but they were awesome fights!

And I LOOOOVED Benny Leonard v Lew Tindler(I'm not sure if I spelt that right). Classic boxer v puncher,2 greats at lightweight if I'm correct. Anyway,1thing that perplexed me was that the commentator mentioned,that all Benny had to do was not get knocked out and he would keep his title,via no decision? This confused me! Why would it be a no decision and not go to the scorecards?

CC for any responses,I must have made a few mistakes in there so forgive me!

back in the day alot of times they would just do a set amount of rounds, with a KO being the only way someone could win

when you see shit on boxrec like NWS it means that the fight was technically a no contest due to no KO occurring but newspapers called the fight for one guy

[mayorook]

Thing about back then is was a whole lot of favoritism and actually alot of fights ended in no decisions. I remember in one my special ring edition magazines one fighter had like 90 no decisions as crazy as that sound . Sometimes they didn't even want to finish the fight and it just was decleared a no decision.