Pac vs JMM (rematch) vote and explain

[Julius Rain]

First of all, Happy New Years everybody!!!! and I hope everyone will have a great two thousand and eight

Ok one of the biggest fight already made for this year is on March 15, 2008. It features two of the best pound for pound fighters in the boxing world. We have the champ Juan Manuel Marquez versus the challenger Manny Pacquiao for the 130 pound World Title at Mandalay Bay Las Vegas, Nevada. Will be promoted by TRP and GBP.

Today is the very first day of 2008, January 1st. We have 75 days til March 15, 2008 to cast our votes for the long awaited rematch between the current number two best pound for pound Pacquiao and current number four pound for pound Marquez.

Rules are simple:

We have 75 days til fight night, it means we have 75 days til votes are final.
You can only choose one option
you may only see the results after you have submitted your vote.
You are allowed to change votes but you must explain why
And everybody must give a valid reason on why they choose the option they voted.

Please no "I vote for pac cause I want to" or "I vote for jmm cause I like him better". Not all of us will agree but atleast lets give more then what we feel. Lets put some logic in to this and have a good debate.

Ding ding ding, lets get in on guys

[:::PSL:::]

Pac by KO.

JMM has the SKILLS, no doubt. But a better speed, power, stamina, and granite chin... KILLS, which Pac possessed.

[pacfan]

Pac by 3...naw I'll go for 2! All pac needs to do is to bulldoze Marquez, take few in and give some in return, and as soon a Marquez take some big ones it's done, IMO...

[ICB]

Pac by 3...naw I'll go for 2! All pac needs to do is to bulldoze Marquez, take few in and give some in return, and as soon a Marquez take some big ones it's done, IMO...

Its not just as straight forward as your saying, remember Marquez knows what he is up against this time. He won't make the same mistake as he did the 1st time and get caught cold early. I think Marquez will be very cautious in early going, just to relax and get warmed up i expect Pacquiao to take the early rounds. But once Marquez gets his rhythm going i think he will use his excellent countering abilities to win a UD in a tough fight.

[Sugar_Shaw]

Like I said in the other topic, if Morales kept Pac off of him in their first fight, Marquez will be more than able to do it too.

[Julius Rain]

Like I said in the other topic, if Morales kept Pac off of him in their first fight, Marquez will be more than able to do it too.

yea the problem is, pac isn't the same fighter he was now then the one eric first fought. dont you think?

That also showed in their second fight, pac had to improve himself to beat eric the second time and third time around and pac did.

I really don't think jmm can just counter himself to victory or keep pac off him and win rounds. Just like marco tried to do, he did avoided most of pacs aggression but in doing so he couldn't win rounds. IMO this will be the same problem for marquez, you can not just counter pac. Its not that easy, you must go forward also. You must take risk to win rounds against pac, just like eric did in the first fight. People are not understandind the fact that eric didn't just kept pac off. He beat him going backwards and forward. Imo erics natural advantage such as his height played a huge roll in beating pac the first time. JMM does not have height over pac or other physical advantage like eric did. I just can't see anyone thats not bigger beating pac while avoiding his explosive rallies.

I don't know why some people are saying pac did not look good in his past two fights? He dominated pretty easily. He took solis out, when he felt that it was time to. solis is not an elite but his a good b level undefeated fighter. He easily cruise into a u.d over a guy jmm nearly lost to. He landed over 50% of his powershots in that fight, how can anyone say that was a bad performance. IMO they are just use to pac being so violence that everytime he does not finish off his oppenent via ko or tko, its a bad performance. IMO thats the beggining of a new pacman, the kind that can box before he brawls.

If we look at jmm's recent fights, he dominated juarez easily. He went the distance in a very hard fought battle against marco and before that he fought some southpaw lesser fighters but he was hit a lot of times. IMO southpaws will always give jmm trouble and if you add pacs speed,power,stamina,relentless,and skills its hard to argue that marquez will just win via u.d cause he countered and kept pac off.

IMO theres only one way to beat pac and thats through him not going away from him. Like i said earlier, eric didn't just kept pac off he also took risk and beat him going towards and through pac. LOOK at all three of pacs lost, noun of them beat them by just keeping away. They all went through him to beat him. At this level of pacs career, its nearly suicidal to try and go through him. IMO if you don't, you may avoid most of his aggression for 12 rounds but you won't win enough rounds in doing so. Its a totally different pac then the one jmm first fought, thats for sure. IMO people are totally buying into the impression that it'll be the same fight. I think not, i don't think there will be an early knock down for pac and I don't think there will be a late rally for jmm and just counter himself to victory.

I think they'll measure eachother up for the first three rounds. After that they'll start landing a lot more, and imo its not jmms advantage if it goes on to the later rounds. I think pacs speed and misdirection shots will continue to get more and more frustrating for marquez. I can see the fight being competetive til the 10th round. Maybe 6 rounds to 4 for pac, but afterwards pacs speed,stamina and power will wash jmm up and finish him late.

[Sugar_Shaw]

Pac has changed but his basis is still the same.
Morales beat him using boxing skills though, an area in which Marquez is bette than Morales in.
Marquez has a solid defence so he can take risks.
Pacquiao's camp have never been the most tactically astute in Manny's fights.
People who beat Marquez out speed him, pac could, but won't. It's not his style.
Pacquiao's speed is incredibly overrated, and Marquez's underrated. Pac's fast but not that much more than JMM.

[Chino]

Like I said in the other topic, if Morales kept Pac off of him in their first fight, Marquez will be more than able to do it too.

I somehow think this is the way to beat Pac. Pac, as we know, has shown that he has KO in his punches so exchanging with him is not a good idea. Morales fought a smart fight the first time gliding easily to a victory by just keeping him away with jabs, straights, one-two, etc.

[ICB]

I really don't think jmm can just counter himself to victory or keep pac off him and win rounds. Just like marco tried to do, he did avoided most of pacs aggression but in doing so he couldn't win rounds.

Barrera was too cautious and was basically there to survive, you cannot compare that to Marquez who will be very hungry and there to win. And Marquez will also take advantage of countering opportunities unlike Barrera did, If you Pacquiao fans think that Pacquiao is just going to just blow away Marquez you have got another thing coming. And although Pacquiao does has head movement, Pacquiao squares his shoulders up and leaves countering opportunities.

Its not that easy, you must go forward also. You must take risk to win rounds against pac, just like eric did in the first fight.

And Marquez done that very well in the 1st fight, he took risks when he needed to and picked his shots very well. He fought a great fight by countering Pacquiao and also choosing when to be aggressive.

[Violent Demise]

I vote for Marquez cuz he's the better fighter. And by all rights has already beaten Pac. He just didn't get the decision.

[Kel]

I vote for Marquez cuz he's the better fighter. And by all rights has already beaten Pac. He just didn't get the decision.

Yeah I agree actually.

[ICB]

I vote for Marquez cuz he's the better fighter. And by all rights has already beaten Pac. He just didn't get the decision.

I think a lot of people think because Pacquiao has a lot of head movement that he isn't easy to hit. When thats false, because Pacquiao squares his shoulders up and he leaves a lot of countering opportunities. I also see a lot of people saying Marquez won't be able to pull of a miracle like he did the 1st time. But do people honestly think a great fighter like Marquez will be caught cold and off guard twice ?? i also think Marquez won the 1st fight i believe i had it 8 rounds to 4 for Marquez. The key to this fight for Marquez is countering and timing, he has to time Pacquiao's feints take a step back then rattle off a few quick sharp punches, then get out of there. I think Marquez should basically fight the same fight as he did the 1st time without the 1st round of course, he basically fought the perfect blueprint on how to beat Pacquiao. And if Marquez uses his tactics correctly by choosing when to be aggressive and when not to i think he will win a clear cut UD.

[Julius Rain]

I really don't think jmm can just counter himself to victory or keep pac off him and win rounds. Just like marco tried to do, he did avoided most of pacs aggression but in doing so he couldn't win rounds.

Barrera was too cautious and was basically there to survive, you cannot compare that to Marquez who will be very hungry and there to win. And Marquez will also take advantage of countering opportunities unlike Barrera did, If you Pacquiao fans think that Pacquiao is just going to just blow away Marquez you have got another thing coming. And although Pacquiao does has head movement, Pacquiao squares his shoulders up and leaves countering opportunities.

Its not that easy, you must go forward also. You must take risk to win rounds against pac, just like eric did in the first fight.

And Marquez done that very well in the 1st fight, he took risks when he needed to and picked his shots very well. He fought a great fight by countering Pacquiao and also choosing when to be aggressive.

hunger was the same reason people thought mab had a chance in their rematch, but it all went away after he was actually in the ring with pac again. I actually said pac will stop jmm in the later rounds, not he'll blow jmm away easily. Its actually jmm fans that think he'll win easy just cause he can counter and go the distant? Its really not that simple thats why I made this thread so we can put our heads together not our groupies and feelings.

JMM has prove he has the guts and will to survive cause he did that in the first fight, but its really an overstatement when his fans say he'll win cause they think he won the first fight. Thats really not what I was hoping to hear from our members here in saddo. I was hoping for more conclusive facts such as, JMM does have heart, he can throw punches from all angles and does have a decent defense. Then lets look at pac and tell the truth. His NOT the same one demensional fighter jmm survived against. Those are facts and lets try to stick to unbias posting.

We all have our favorite and obviously pac is mine but lets try to be unbias. IMO if JMM is to win his going to need to take advantage of pacs out of control balance sometimes. I don't think he'll win enough rounds trying to stay away from pac, his going to need to find that moment when pac is out of balance but still be aware that pac still can throw hard punches from being off balance so IMO Jmm has got to stay on his toe and when those moment comes he needs to jump on that opportunity to make pac look bad. Those are the best way he'll win rounds against pac now.

It could become just like the mab fight though, lets not forget going into that fight many believe mab was hungry for revenge and now people are saying JMM is hungry to prove himself. There are hypes in every fight its amazing how much we still fall for the hype but when its fight night most of the time its the opposite. Lets leave the hype out of it. Lets put some individual logical thoughts into this. IMO pac will stop marquez in the later rounds, his speed, stamina and power will eventually overwhelm 34 year old marquez. Then sadly the "washed up" or "old" excuses will be unleashed once again in attempt to discredit pac for a great win.

[Julius Rain]

I vote for Marquez cuz he's the better fighter. And by all rights has already beaten Pac. He just didn't get the decision.

I think a lot of people think because Pacquiao has a lot of head movement that he isn't easy to hit. When thats false, because Pacquiao squares his shoulders up and he leaves a lot of countering opportunities. I also see a lot of people saying Marquez won't be able to pull of a miracle like he did the 1st time. But do people honestly think a great fighter like Marquez will be caught cold and off guard twice ?? i also think Marquez won the 1st fight i believe i had it 8 rounds to 4 for Marquez. The key to this fight for Marquez is countering and timing, he has to time Pacquiao's feints take a step back then rattle off a few quick sharp punches, then get out of there. I think Marquez should basically fight the same fight as he did the 1st time without the 1st round of course, he basically fought the perfect blueprint on how to beat Pacquiao. And if Marquez uses his tactics correctly by choosing when to be aggressive and when not to i think he will win a clear cut UD.

See your still stuck on the first fight, its where your totally wrong cause your not considering the big difference in the pacman then and the pac of now. Pac threw the same two jab-straight left all night at JMM in that first fight. It was pretty basic but JMM still had a hard time simply becuase pacs speed and dangerous power. You also stated that people think pac is hard to hit cause he has good head movement. Im not sure who said that but that is barely the reason why people think pac wins fights.IMO pac does that for offense first rather then a defensive tactic. He moves his whole upper body not just head movements side to side to give his oppenent different looks and angles it gives pac the hesitant second to land a misleading punch or some quick straights. Hopefully your actually watching footage cause if you are, eric did that in the first fight against pac. He use pacs body movement tactic against pac, marco also tried it in the rematch but it didn't work for him.

Another thing I would like to add that cause pac trouble is taunting him, eric did a lot of it during the first fight which made pac hesitant and a bit out of his comfort zone. That and what I stated earlier in my post helped eric to beat pac. Im so disspointed not many here do not see these basic facts and are quick to claim that pac will just lose cause eric beat him that lead them to conclude jmm will beat him too just cause....Come on first of all pac was a lot younger and raw those days and they still base it on those past fights but them themselve don't really see the true factors that led to pac losing to eric or a draw with jmm.

Man wheres CUTMEMICK, Im sure he'll give some good thoughts into why either JMM or pac will win rather then whats already been said in this thread which is dissapointing since this is a well respected boxing forum.

[Julius Rain]

For the record I have not cast in my vote, cause even though im a bigger fan of pac then a fan of jmm I am open to changing my opinion that pac will win in the later round. Like in the mab pac rematch I was persuaded by a great member in this forum to change my pick from pac to mab. Although I was wrong to change my pick, that member put out some great point for me to change my pick. I won't name that person. Hopefully someone again can be unbias and can provide some well thought out points like he did to why either Pac or JMM will win.