Could round 12 of Vasquz - Marquez III have been scored a 10-7 round?

[CFH]

I know this seems like a bit of an absurd question, but I saw the fight for the first time last night and I think a case could be made for scoring the 12th round 10-8 for Vasquez prior to the KD, so with the knockdown could it have been scored 10-7? Why or why not?
I had the fight for Marquez by 1 round, but a 10-7 twelfth would have made it a draw on my card.

[Julius Rain]

isreal dominated that round yes, but he won without a 10-7 12th round and i don't see much argueing his victory so imo 10-7 only adds insult to rafa's injuries.

two great fighter that all i can say. isreal just got the edge though.

[The Rookie Fan]

Well it certanly would've been a 10-8 with or without a KD. But I really don't know how the rules work.

Still I had Vazquez winning the fight by a point or two.

[CFH]

isreal dominated that round yes, but he won without a 10-7 12th round and i don't see much argueing his victory so imo 10-7 only adds insult to rafa's injuries.

two great fighter that all i can say. isreal just got the edge though.

I'm not arguing the fact that Vasquez won, I feel the decision was fair. A lot of the rounds were incredibly close; I personally had Marquez by 1, but I am not a professional judge.
I just thought when I watched the 12th round that a case could be made for it being scored 10-7, as in my mind it could have been a 10-8 without the KD, so if that was the case, wouldn't the KD make it a 10-7 round?
I also don't think scoring it a 10-7 round takes anything away from Rafa, that's a ridiculous statement in my opinion - he fought a great fight and just came up a bit short. It might have been the best fight I have ever seen.

[CFH]

Well it certanly would've been a 10-8 with or without a KD. But I really don't know how the rules work.

Still I had Vazquez winning the fight by a point or two.

Yeah, neither do I, which is why I asked the question. I don't know the specifics of the scoring process.

[Spicoli]

I know this seems like a bit of an absurd question, but I saw the fight for the first time last night and I think a case could be made for scoring the 12th round 10-8 for Vasquez prior to the KD, so with the knockdown could it have been scored 10-7? Why or why not?
I had the fight for Marquez by 1 round, but a 10-7 twelfth would have made it a draw on my card.

Good call.I brought this up in the RBR as it pertains to some States encouraging "liberal" scoring.Without question Vasquez was owning the round in dominate fashion then the KD.Me...I would stick with 10-8,But maybe thats because I picked Rafa .Classic execution in how to close the show by Vasquez.

[Kev]

Interesting point but in reality the only person who scores fights 10-8 without any knockdowns is Teddy Atlas, although he of course usually likes to try and favour a way to give the fighter who got knocked down the round, and justify it with another boring analogy

[Lance Uppercut]

I 'll say one thing; that last round should have absolutely been scored a 10-8 round even if the ref did not call that a knockdown.

It was a complete beat down.

[p4pking]

It absolutely COULD have been scored 10-7, yes. There's nothing stopping judges from scoring a round 10-8 without a KD, if one fighter was dominant and hurt his opponent it happens. The reason I wouldn't have scored it 10-7 is because Rafa didn't actually go down. I'm not sure whether Cali has the standing 8 or not, but that would have been a better call by the ref imo. However, had neither a KD or standing count been called, Vasquez may have stopped him, in fact likely. The Haye- Enzo fight actually reminded me a lot of that 12th round as I was watching, right before the stoppage Haye knocked Enzo back into the ropes, which was the only thing that held him up as he was badly hurt. If the ref had called that a KD it would have given Enzo a slight chance to get his wits about him and fight on. Instead Haye followed up brutally and stopped him. Very similar scenario imo, as there's no way Rafa was fit to take any more shots against the ropes at that moment, but he didn't technically go down.

[CFH]

It absolutely COULD have been scored 10-7, yes. There's nothing stopping judges from scoring a round 10-8 without a KD, if one fighter was dominant and hurt his opponent it happens. The reason I wouldn't have scored it 10-7 is because Rafa didn't actually go down. I'm not sure whether Cali has the standing 8 or not, but that would have been a better call by the ref imo. However, had neither a KD or standing count been called, Vasquez may have stopped him, in fact likely. The Haye- Enzo fight actually reminded me a lot of that 12th round as I was watching, right before the stoppage Haye knocked Enzo back into the ropes, which was the only thing that held him up as he was badly hurt. If the ref had called that a KD it would have given Enzo a slight chance to get his wits about him and fight on. Instead Haye followed up brutally and stopped him. Very similar scenario imo, as there's no way Rafa was fit to take any more shots against the ropes at that moment, but he didn't technically go down.

The reason the ref called the knock down is valid in my opinion, the only reason Rafa didn't go down was because he grabbed on to the ropes, which is considered a knock down. It's not like the ropes just happened to hold him up (as I believe happened in Enzo's case, I could be wrong here though), he actually grabbed on to them to keep from going down. It was a fair call.
Regardless, score-wise wouldn't a standing 8 be considered the same thing as a KD? I don't even know if there is such a thing as a standing 8 count in professional boxing...

[p4pking]

The reason the ref called the knock down is valid in my opinion, the only reason Rafa didn't go down was because he grabbed on to the ropes, which is considered a knock down. It's not like the ropes just happened to hold him up (as I believe happened in Enzo's case, I could be wrong here though), he actually grabbed on to them to keep from going down. It was a fair call.
Regardless, score-wise wouldn't a standing 8 be considered the same thing as a KD? I don't even know if there is such a thing as a standing 8 count in professional boxing...

Yea there is a standing 8 in the pro's, but it seems most commissions have strayed from it recently.. It wouldn't be scored any differently that a KD though, I was really just going off topic ranting. I haven't rewatched the 12th round since I saw it, if Rafa did indeed grab onto the ropes then a KD was the right call.. Either way, a 10-7 round would have been perfectly ok. And with Haye-Enzo he didn't didn't grab the ropes or anything, Haye knocked Enzo back hard he just hit the ropes and sort of got propped up into a crouch where he continued to get beat on. I think that either case should be called a KD, if a guy is knocked silly from a punch and going right onto his ass but the ropes just happen to keep him upright, he should get a count imo. I was just pointing out that technically Marquez didn't touch the ground as are the rules.

[CFH]

Yea there is a standing 8 in the pro's, but it seems most commissions have strayed from it recently.. It wouldn't be scored any differently that a KD though, I was really just going off topic ranting. I haven't rewatched the 12th round since I saw it, if Rafa did indeed grab onto the ropes then a KD was the right call.. Either way, a 10-7 round would have been perfectly ok. And with Haye-Enzo he didn't didn't grab the ropes or anything, Haye knocked Enzo back hard he just hit the ropes and sort of got propped up into a crouch where he continued to get beat on. I think that either case should be called a KD, if a guy is knocked silly from a punch and going right onto his ass but the ropes just happen to keep him upright, he should get a count imo. I was just pointing out that technically Marquez didn't touch the ground as are the rules.

Yeah, I agree completely that if the ropes are all that are holding a rocked fighter up it should be a KD, I think most of the time the refs call it that way.
I just re-watched round 12 of Vasquez - Marquez again and Rafa grabbed the top rope as he staggered into the corner, so the correct call was made.

[ICB]

Even though i scored it 10-8 when i was doing RBR to be fair to Marquez. I looked back at that round again and i say it was for certain 10-7 round. Vasquez dominated Marquez in that round in fact i can't even really remember Marquez landing a good shot in that round. Vasquez come out for the 12th like an animal he fought the entire 3 minutes of the round and totally battered Marquez from pillar to post, if people don't think that was a 10-7 round then i ask those people what else could Vasquez have done ?? he totally battered Marquez, and dominated the whole 3 minutes of the round. And lucky for Marquez the ref did give him a count otherwise he would of been stopped IMO.

Another round i scored 10-7 was the 2nd round in the Bowe vs Golota 2 fight, well i would have if Golota wouldn't have got a point deducted but you see my point.

[Wayne]

I know this seems like a bit of an absurd question, but I saw the fight for the first time last night and I think a case could be made for scoring the 12th round 10-8 for Vasquez prior to the KD, so with the knockdown could it have been scored 10-7? Why or why not?
I had the fight for Marquez by 1 round, but a 10-7 twelfth would have made it a draw on my card.

I'd say yes. Round 12 was such a thorough domination by Vasquez that without the knockdown I might have scored it 10-8. There wasn't a second that Marquez did anything remotely like mounting an offense. When he wasn't holding on to Vasquez for dear life he was getting pounded. And if it weren't for the ringpost Vasquez would have launched him into the upper deck at the end. What Vasquez did was how you close a show.