The NBA....it used to be better

[El Kabong]

People these days are acting like Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, et al are just the greatest players ever and I am just here to tell everyone that those guys have a LOOOOOOONG way to go. You can name me any player playing right now and I could name maybe 5 guys playing the same position who did it better back in the day.

I give credit to Kobe and Lebron being the best we have right now but in now way shape or form are they as good as past stars!

[El Kabong]

Oh and just as an example recently Lebron James established a special stat, he now has 30 PPG vs the Milwaukee Bucks....the last guy to hold such a record (after a certain number of games played vs a team) was Michael Jordan..........and he averaged 30+ PPG vs 14 teams in the NBA, that also includes his comeback with the Wizards as well.

[RP33]

Oh and just as an example recently Lebron James established a special stat, he now has 30 PPG vs the Milwaukee Bucks....the last guy to hold such a record (after a certain number of games played vs a team) was Michael Jordan..........and he averaged 30+ PPG vs 14 teams in the NBA, that also includes his comeback with the Wizards as well.

MJ has to be the exception though.. No one who has any wits is saying that Kobe or Lebron are better than MJ.. MJ is a smarter/faster Kobe with a better jumper.. Dude didn't miss.

Lebron is amazing because of his size. He's an absolute beast, the size of an NFL linebacker with a ridiculous amount of talent. He is dynamic because normally size mostly matters when you're a 4 or 5, not a 3.. With the exception of the above average in height point guard of Magic Johnson.

Anyone who thinks Kobe or Lebron are the best ever to play the game are probably younger kids growing up with these guys.. they don't know any better..

[El Kabong]

MJ was also a great TEAM player, he didn't have to do it all and the Bulls had some very good role players on those Championship teams but imagining what MJ would have done with Shaq, Gasol, Odom, even old Gary Payton and Karl Malone is amazing.....as Magic Johnson said "There is Michael Jordan and then there is everybody else" or maybe as Larry Bird said after MJ dropped a playoff record 63 on the 1986 Boston Celtics (a great team) "God disguised as Michael Jordan"

I would take any number of players over Lebron....sure he's a physical specimine but so were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, both FAR BETTER than Lebron at any position 1-5.

Kobe and Lebron are great sure but they aren't as special as some of the LEGENDS. Those guys will become legends but to me they just do have the "IT" factor that most people want out of like Heavyweight boxing champions.....when Jordan, Magic, or Bird had to take a game over they saddled up and did it and there were times when they made it look awfully easy and this was waaaaaay long before the talent got diluted by The Bobcats, Raptors, Grizzlies, etc..

Kobe dropped 81 on the Toronto Raptors and people talk about it as if Michael Jordan could never do that or anyone else for that matter. Pete Maravich lit up the 1977 New York Knicks for 68 and that was without the benefit of a 3-point line!!!

[boozeboxer]

I do see your point, but I think that basketball players are getting better in general. Also I think your views are bathed in nostalgia.

[El Kabong]

I do see your point, but I think that basketball players are getting better in general. Also I think your views are bathed in nostalgia.

Players are no doubt benefitting from better training and advances in healthcare etc. but you can take the 2008 Olympic team and the 1992 Olympic team and bar Christian Lattner I would take anyone from the '92 team over anyone from the '08 team

Nostalgia or not the legends deserve their respect!

[OumaFan]

The NBA is by far the best its been in a long time. It has become IMO the best professional sports league, the quality of play is amazing. So many great players.

[RP33]

MJ was also a great TEAM player, he didn't have to do it all and the Bulls had some very good role players on those Championship teams but imagining what MJ would have done with Shaq, Gasol, Odom, even old Gary Payton and Karl Malone is amazing.....as Magic Johnson said "There is Michael Jordan and then there is everybody else" or maybe as Larry Bird said after MJ dropped a playoff record 63 on the 1986 Boston Celtics (a great team) "God disguised as Michael Jordan"

I would take any number of players over Lebron....sure he's a physical specimine but so were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, both FAR BETTER than Lebron at any position 1-5.

Kobe and Lebron are great sure but they aren't as special as some of the LEGENDS. Those guys will become legends but to me they just do have the "IT" factor that most people want out of like Heavyweight boxing champions.....when Jordan, Magic, or Bird had to take a game over they saddled up and did it and there were times when they made it look awfully easy and this was waaaaaay long before the talent got diluted by The Bobcats, Raptors, Grizzlies, etc..

Kobe dropped 81 on the Toronto Raptors and people talk about it as if Michael Jordan could never do that or anyone else for that matter. Pete Maravich lit up the 1977 New York Knicks for 68 and that was without the benefit of a 3-point line!!!

So, in reference to this post and the thread title, you are generally saying that the talent pool currently in the NBA is inferior to those times in the past, correct?

That's a tough assumption to make. I'm only 23, but i've watched the NBA since intellectually possible.. I remember the Jordan days and all of the Bulls fans at school etc.. It's tough to compare the generations.

I think that most of the hype comes from exactly what you previously stated. The whole persona thing. Lebron/Kobe are a great face for the NBA currently. Everyone knows who they are. The NBA is still a business, and in my opinion they're doing a great job.

The first person (i believe) to come into the NBA straight from high school, they tried to market the hell out of him. and it failed miserably. Without using google, tell me who you think it is.

But lebron on the other hand, among VARIOUS other real young players, have the marketability for my age group and younger. Which is why i think the NBA as a business is booming. When Lebron comes to play the Celtics, it's impossible to get a ticket. Everyone wants to see him throw the powder into the air at the scorers table and be a part of it. It's become more of a media machine than maybe the pure talent driven business it used to be. With that said, I don't think it's out of hand or that anything is really fabricated to hide anyone who isn't talented, it just has become a bit more mainstream and marketable.

[boozeboxer]

is it Shawn Kemp?

[RP33]

is it Shawn Kemp?

negative. you're thinking too long ago. A hint would be that it happened in the last decade.. Actually, between the 2000 draft - present.

EDIT: This at least proves that they failed at marketing him due to the fact that he never became a huge talent.. But you could at least see the direction the NBA was trying to move toward. Market the hell out of someone who may be a big star, and if it works.. dollar signs.

[El Kabong]

Yes the talent pool is diluted right now...the same thing can be said of baseball and football. It just goes to figure that if you add more teams you don't automatically get the talent to fill out the roster spots on those teams so back in the day you would get teams with legends like: Magic, Jabaar, Worthy or Bird, McHale, Parrish. Do you think that Milwaukee, Toronto, Charlotte, Memphis, Sacramento, the LA Clippers, and Oklahoma City have quality rosters? They have 1-3 quality players but all together they have nothing.

Sure Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, and most importantly the Big 3 (a TEAM) have grown the game a little since The Depression Era (the Post MJ, Bird, Magic era) and it's better than that but to outright compare any of the current players to the legends in anything other than describing a playing style is ape shit crazy. People can say Kobe plays LIKE Jordan and I am fine with that but people saying Kobe is as good or better than Jordan are just out of their God damn minds!

I don't get your question about the high schooler who went pro...I know there have been high schoolers before who have gone pro and did very well without benefit of marketing Moses Malone and Darryl 'Chocolate Thunder' Dawkins (from the planet Lovetron) are two from way back that I can think of....but from 2000 on I am not sure, Kwame Brown maybe if you're thinking of a bust...Tracy McGrady if you're thinking of someone good.

[RP33]

Yes the talent pool is diluted right now...the same thing can be said of baseball and football. It just goes to figure that if you add more teams you don't automatically get the talent to fill out the roster spots on those teams so back in the day you would get teams with legends like: Magic, Jabaar, Worthy or Bird, McHale, Parrish. Do you think that Milwaukee, Toronto, Charlotte, Memphis, Sacramento, the LA Clippers, and Oklahoma City have quality rosters? They have 1-3 quality players but all together they have nothing.

Sure Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, and most importantly the Big 3 (a TEAM) have grown the game a little since The Depression Era (the Post MJ, Bird, Magic era) and it's better than that but to outright compare any of the current players to the legends in anything other than describing a playing style is ape shit crazy. People can say Kobe plays LIKE Jordan and I am fine with that but people saying Kobe is as good or better than Jordan are just out of their God damn minds!

I don't get your question about the high schooler who went pro...I know there have been high schoolers before who have gone pro and did very well without benefit of marketing Moses Malone and Darryl 'Chocolate Thunder' Dawkins (from the planet Lovetron) are two from way back that I can think of....but from 2000 on I am not sure, Kwame Brown maybe if you're thinking of a bust...Tracy McGrady if you're thinking of someone good.

What isn't there to get about the question? lol.. I just asked who the first person was that came out of high school and went to the NBA..

and it was Kwame.. I was referring to the new school faces (or attempted faces) of the NBA.. and that failed miserably.. This was all in reference mainly to your comparison of the "good" players today as the big time heavyweight personas like Tyson etc..

[VictorCharlie]

I think Wade, James and Kobe are all great players regardless of when they played. Better/Worse/Equal than Johnson, Bird etc? Hard to say. Regardless of sport I think it is very hard to compare any players from one generation to another. There is no questioning that NBA teams are not nearly as good as they used to be from top to bottom due to expansion and players having limited college experience. In regards to James specifically I'd be interested in what Jordan's stats were like at 24-25 compared to Lebron...regardless until Lebron starts hoisting championships it is hard to make a comparison at this point.

[El Kabong]

Well #1 Kwame wasn't the first person to go to the NBA straight from High School and #2 He wasn't the first person to fail in doing so....that honor belongs to Bill Willoughby (19th overall pick of the 1975 NBA draft) and his career ended at age 26.

One of the issues I have/had with the NBA was when so many high schoolers were going pro when they needed to be more developed.

Even great players like Kobe, KG, Lebron, and T-Mac needed a little time to adjust to the NBA.

Players like Jermaine O'Neil, Danny Granger, Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, etc. needed several years to develop.

Meanwhile there are even more guys who didn't make it AT ALL...does the name Korleone Young ring any bells

I think the better the NCAA players are then the better the NBA is...the more years you spend in college the more you develop talent (if you have a good coach) and the better you'll be in the NBA.

Let me put it this way Tyler Hansbrough stayed 4 years. He had the hustle and desire to maybe make an NBA team after his sophmore year but now he's better on defense, he can shoot from farther away, and he's just become an all-around better player....he won't set the world on fire when he makes it to the NBA but he's going to be a SOLID NBA player....he probably won't start very much throughout his career but the fundamentals he picked up from UNC will put him ahead of a lot of players who may have more physical tools than he does.

The NBA didn't just dilute their talent with expansion teams but with the bunches of high schoolers who came out to go pro. It was getting less like the true NBA and more like the And One All-Stars....a bunch of ball hogging, no defense playing, show boats....and hell I like flashy play and all but that selfish playing style does get old, especially when it hurts the fundamentals of the game.

[boozeboxer]

Tyler Hans is a fag for not playing for Missouri.