Tour de France

[CGM]

Anyone watching this? How about that Lance Armstrong? After yesterday's leg, he was less than one second out of the lead. The guy is amazing. You know, a lot of these guys train very hard, and have access to advanced training knowledge. Armstrong has something else. He must be genetically predisposed to being a kickass cyclist. It's the only way that one guy can be so good.

[LEGION]

I don't even like cycling but I have been watching on and off; watched some replays of him in years past winning the TDF; guy is amazing in his tenacity. He didn't have anything to prove to anyone but I guess he is on a mission to prove to himself he's still top dog or one of them. The guy must be part robot

[El Kabong]

When I was over in France, the French (at least the ones I hung out with) didn't seem to appreciate cycling as they said all of the cyclists dope.....I told them they were just bitter because an American (at that time Floyd Landis) had won for the 8th time in a row.

[CGM]

When I was over in France, the French (at least the ones I hung out with) didn't seem to appreciate cycling as they said all of the cyclists dope.....I told them they were just bitter because an American (at that time Floyd Landis) had won for the 8th time in a row.

I agree with you. It's sour grapes. Of course Bernard Hinault, or Laurent Fignon, were super clean, , but that was sooooo long ago.

[El Kabong]

Greg LeMond was pretty successful in France as well

[CGM]

Yeah leMond was good, I think he won twice in a row.

I was watching the tour this morning on tv, and they were kicking up a fuss about an Astana team member, who had taken the bull by the horns and taken a run at a stage victory when it wasn't part of the team plan, and apparently his mates were pissed off.

Frankly I think this highlights a weakness of the team aspect of cycling. I really don't think the team aspect adds much to the sport, I'd rather just see an each man for himself event. Then we really see what these top riders are made of.

[amat]

I thought the same thing before CGM but the team aspect is needed in the tour. It's not like NASCAR, these guys are out here for 3 weeks and they need support from team members if they want to stay in the thick. It also provides some fascinating strategy elements to the sport.

I have been trying to wake up early to watch it, tomorrow I'll wake up early for sure for the British Open so Ill catch it.

[VictorCharlie]

Can someone explain how "team" strategy works in cycling? I don't really understand how other cyclists are going to help you during a race.

[amat]

It's hard to explain for a relative cycling newcomer. But it's the support. For example, if Armstrong has a teammate who can't do all the things Armstrong can but is strong climbing the alps. You put him there with Armstrong, to let him set the pace for Armstrong. When someone has to go back to the car to get water for the whole team or food for the whole team, for such a long haul you have to have that help. There's no way Lance survives at the top of the tour without a whole lot of support from his team. Doesn't mean it's a total team sport but it has a lot of team aspects and they have to rely on their teammates constantly.

What was crap about Cantador is that he was having trouble earlier in the stage and Lance and Levi fell back with him and helped him get back to the chase group. Then without warning later on he sprinted ahead and picked up time on Lance. I'm not a huge Armstrong fan, he has a Favre-like ego, but he was in the right here.

[VictorCharlie]

Well I get the "Hey go get me a latte" support but I don't really understand during the actual race. I would think you would set the highest sustainable pace for each leg.

[amat]

Well I get the "Hey go get me a latte" support but I don't really understand during the actual race. I would think you would set the highest sustainable pace for each leg.

You can't. It's impossible just to race as hard as you can for all those weeks especially at that altitude. There are guys in the race who don't race to win the overall tournament but to win individual stages, and it's a big deal just like it is for a NASCAR driver to win a race. I know Lance is great climbing the mountains but the stages often have a lot of variety and it's multiple people's job on the team to set a pace that the "protected" rider can keep and also keep him in contention.

[CGM]

I thought the same thing before CGM but the team aspect is needed in the tour. It's not like NASCAR, these guys are out here for 3 weeks and they need support from team members if they want to stay in the thick. It also provides some fascinating strategy elements to the sport.

I have been trying to wake up early to watch it, tomorrow I'll wake up early for sure for the British Open so Ill catch it.

You have a point. It's part of the sport as it has been defined. It's been that way for a while, so they need it. If it wasn't a team sport it'd be individual. They need each other to stay in the thick because everyone else does it. If the rules change, they'd adapt, as long as the playing field is level it doesn't really matter which way it's done. I just prefer individual.

[Mikkel_K]

Well I get the "Hey go get me a latte" support but I don't really understand during the actual race. I would think you would set the highest sustainable pace for each leg.

First of all, you have to realize just how much of a difference it makes in cycling whether you are leading a group (ie. being head front in the wind) or just keeping the wheel of a person in front of you. Except for on steep uphill climbs, this really makes all the difference in the world.

It is therefore a prerequisite for any 'captain' hoping to do well in the race to have helpers, willing to exhaust themselves in order to enhance the chances of their teammate. If everybody were just racing as individuals, no one would have any incentive to not just hide themselves in the bunch, saving the energy for later. In other words, the race would most likely get very slow and boring, except for - maybe - the last 15-20 km.

Furthermore, a stage race like this includes, as amat mentioned, a variety of different types of stages, and those varieties appeal to different kinds of cyclists.

For example, Fabian Cancellera is by far the best time trialist in the world at the moment, as he showed winning stage 1, but while those 80 kg of musclemass work to his benefit riding alone on a flat road in the wind (or downhill), the 45kg mountain specialist will beat him on a mountain finish every time. The lightweight climber, on the other hand, will have no chance in the finish on the more flat stages, when the sprinters (eg. four-time stage winner Mark Cavendish) hits the finish line with 75-80 km/hour. Of course, the ones with a chance to win the overall race, are the ones capable of both riding in the mountains, time trials etc.

Anyway, most teams will feature a diverse group of riders in order to give the team a chance to compete in the varuous dimensions of the race. E.g. Team Cervelo has last years winner Carlos Sastre, a light Spaniard who excel (only) in the mountains, and Thor Hushovd, a Norwegian sprinter who is maybe the favorite to take the (also rather prestigious) sprinter's jersey, but who will be severely struggling the moment the riders hit the bigger mountans.

[CGM]

If everybody were just racing as individuals, no one would have any incentive to not just hide themselves in the bunch, saving the energy for later. In other words, the race would most likely get very slow and boring, except for - maybe - the last 15-20 km.

Sounds like a typical 10,000 meter race at the Olympic Games. How many times have we seen them do a slow pace for 9,600 meters, and pick up the pace at the end. That annoys the hell out of me, they may as well just have a 400 meter race.

I'm not clear on how the current team system would any more exciting, you seldom see the top guys stand out in a big push until maybe the end, and often not at all if they don't need to. A guy can win the tour without ever trying real hard to win a stage.

I really admire these guys for their athletic achievement, but really it's kind of boring to watch, maybe the team aspect gives us something to discuss and maybe adds some interest.

As far as the hanging back in the pack thing, maybe you are right, but like I said it in't any more of an issue than with any long distance track event. Some tour events would have guys pushing hard try try and leave the field behind, other events it would be a few weeks of one huge peleton. Maybe there should be more involved in winning the tour than just time. Maybe winning a stage should count for more in the overall standings. Then you would see more action.

[Mikkel_K]

Maybe there should be more involved in winning the tour than just time. Maybe winning a stage should count for more in the overall standings. Then you would see more action.

There used to be time bonuses for winning stages, and this is still a main feature in a number of other stage races. However, this does not necessarily lead to more action, as the riders will still try to optimize the chances of a stage win by 'wasting' as little energy throughout the stage as possible.

I do agree that it should be back though, as no one likes those Armstrong/LeMond types who win the overall race without winning any individual stages

Those interested in learning more about the tour may btw do themselves a favor by tuning in today. After 2 relatively boring weeks, they hit the Swiss Alps today, and while the stage profile isn't *that* enticing, the uphill finish should be interesting. Other than that, the last week certainly looks exciting. I would recomment totally new fans of the sport to tune in next saturday, around 25km from the finish, if only to see one of the most storied climbs in cycling history in Mont Ventoux decide the final outcome of the race.