Ricky Hatton talk lately made me think about Billy Graham

[Saddo]

OK i remember being pissed off bigtime when Ricky announced he was dumping Billy Graham and always thought Graham was being used as an excuss for the Mayweather loss... i hate disloyalty of any form and it really angered me at the time.

whenever i made a post stating this i got no hes doing the right thing you can see the transformations etc.

even after the Maggi fight i was feeling pretty sad about it but thought hey maybe it was the rights choice.

did hear a whisper he might be going back to him... not sure if there is any truth in that but it would be the right thing to do IMO

They had a longterm very close friendship and up until the Mayweather loss a winning combination so with hindsight in our favour now... did Ricky do the right thing leaving Graham?

To me its more of a judge on Rickys character and one that really put me off him on a moral standing.

[BIG H]

OK i remember being pissed off bigtime when Ricky announced he was dumping Billy Graham and always thought Graham was being used as an excuss for the Mayweather loss... i hate disloyalty of any form and it really angered me at the time.

whenever i made a post stating this i got no hes doing the right thing you can see the transformations etc.

even after the Maggi fight i was feeling pretty sad about it but thought hey maybe it was the rights choice.

did hear a whisper he might be going back to him... not sure if there is any truth in that but it would be the right thing to do IMO

They had a longterm very close friendship and up until the Mayweather loss a winning combination so with hindsight in our favour now... did Ricky do the right thing leaving Graham?

To me its more of a judge on Rickys character and one that really put me off him on a moral standing.

I agree mate and it was the way it was done that really disappointed me. It was something you would never have expected from Hatton

[ono]

Yeah it was too late in his career for any other trainer to work with his style. Felt a bit sorry for Graham. To be honest i'm getting fed up of the Hatton's.

Matthew after showing zero respect to N'Dou in their fight and Ricky for wearing a Stoke City shirt. Supposed to be a blue! Selling out just to make a bit of cash.

His fat head annoys me. As does his rather annoying beliefs that he was doing well in the Pac fight.

He'll be on 'I'm a celebrity' in a few years anyway.

[Jimmy G-Force]

To be fair I think it had to be done, and it was a decision that had to be really forced upon Rick by his dad. Billy had fallen out with Ray many times, and Billy had also upset Matthew and Rick on numerous occasions. Billy simply wasnt interested anymore, nor could his body take the rigours of training Ricky. Billy was also training Ricky in a style that suited him, it was all the bodybelt and nothing more, which really didnt help Rick and certainly was one of the reasons Ricky became very one-dimensional.

Billy couldnt work the pads, his hands were fucked, so all the focus was around the bodybelt, and Ricky's performances mirrored this. He became very bull and rush in his tactics, smothering his opponents, a style that was no longer educated in it's approach. Rick certainly needed to go back to basics in alot of areas.

During the training camp for the Lazcano fight, Billy actually booked a 2 week holiday to America to his ranch in Georgia. This was only 4 weeks into the camp, and you can imagine how that decision went down with the Hattons. But it was a clear indication of how Billy's primary interests were no longer focused around Ricky. It did turn out to be a little blessing in disguise though, as Ricky trained with Matthews trainer Lee Beard during that 2 week spell. I went down to the gym during this time and Lee had Ricky working alot on the pads and on combinations, Ricky looked like a kid reborn, and was really enjoying relearning the 'technical' side of the game again.

It was Lee who introduced the Hattons to Mayweather Snr, as Lee's step-son had been living in Vegas for the 2 years previous training with Floyd Snr. In hindsight, this was a terrible introduction, as Floyd didnt really give 2 shits about Rick, I heard he didnt even rate him as a fighter.

The bottom line is I think Ray shouldnt have gone for the high profile trainer, but should have let Rick train with Lee Beard who had been doing fantastic work with Matthew and brought him on leaps and bounds after Billy had ditched Matthew.

I got to know Billy and he wasnt the nicest of people in my experience. Personally I felt that alot had gone to his head, and he had a very arrogant manner about him, and made alot of mistakes.

To be fair to Rick, he had a verbal agreement with Billy that he made when he was 17 years old. This was that Billy got 10% of Ricks purse. Throughout all the years this agreement was never put into writing, and Rick paid Billy his dues as initially agreed. Although I know Ray wasnt too happy about it.

I need to be careful here, so I'll say it like this. It is alleged that when Ricky told Billy they would be splitting, EDITED OUT TO BE SAFE JIMMY. This alleged remark obviously upset Ricky alot. Ricky also gave Billy a few hundred thousand as a thankyou for all the years. It is also alleged that Billy was looking to serve legal action over his pay for the Mayweather fight as he believed he was due 10% of the overall purse including all PPV sales etc.

Ricky certainly made Billy a millionaire during their time together, and the chance of them ever getting back together after all the bad blood that followed the split is probably somewhere between slim and none, and as Don King says.....slim is outta town.

I know for certain that Ricky, although I believe it was in his best interest, never really wanted to leave Billy. This parting was on the cards long before the Mayweather fight, and certain things that happened in Vegas during that week from Billy's side, certainly didnt help his cause. Ricky is very loyal, and Ray spoke to me many times about the fact that Rick didnt want to leave Billy, I know this for a fact, and it was all down to loyalty. Ray could never understand Rick choosing his loyalty for Billy over his progression as a fighter. I talked to Ray about how I felt Ricky's style had become horrible to watch for me and that he needed someone new to bring in new ideas, or at least take him back to the clever but ferocious attacking style he once applied. I honestly cannot say I really enjoyed any fight to watch after the Tszyu fight, apart from maybe the first 5 rounds against Urango when he boxed beautifully.Even the Castillo perfomance was the same old smother and hold tactics that wasnt pretty at all, it was just glossed over with that terrific shot to the liver.

He always felt, as did I, that Rick had gone as far as he could with Billy, and that his style of fighting was nothing like it was before the Tsyzu fight. And it wasnt. I cant blame Billy for all that, but I know his limitations in training due to his aged years certainly had as much effect on Rick's stagnation as what Rick's beliefs that the style that beat Tsyzu would work for everyone he fought.

Just my 2 cents.

[Andre]

OK i remember being pissed off bigtime when Ricky announced he was dumping Billy Graham and always thought Graham was being used as an excuss for the Mayweather loss... i hate disloyalty of any form and it really angered me at the time.

whenever i made a post stating this i got no hes doing the right thing you can see the transformations etc.

even after the Maggi fight i was feeling pretty sad about it but thought hey maybe it was the rights choice.

did hear a whisper he might be going back to him... not sure if there is any truth in that but it would be the right thing to do IMO

They had a longterm very close friendship and up until the Mayweather loss a winning combination so with hindsight in our favour now... did Ricky do the right thing leaving Graham?

To me its more of a judge on Rickys character and one that really put me off him on a moral standing.

That and a few other things closer to home, you know what I mean bro.
No thanks from them.

When anyone creates winning formulas for you,in or out of the ring,You should acknowledge that fact and stick with them.

He didnt and hasnt since.

Like attracts like so the expression goes, so we could see that comming really.

[Jimmy G-Force]

OK i remember being pissed off bigtime when Ricky announced he was dumping Billy Graham and always thought Graham was being used as an excuss for the Mayweather loss... i hate disloyalty of any form and it really angered me at the time.

whenever i made a post stating this i got no hes doing the right thing you can see the transformations etc.

even after the Maggi fight i was feeling pretty sad about it but thought hey maybe it was the rights choice.

did hear a whisper he might be going back to him... not sure if there is any truth in that but it would be the right thing to do IMO

They had a longterm very close friendship and up until the Mayweather loss a winning combination so with hindsight in our favour now... did Ricky do the right thing leaving Graham?

To me its more of a judge on Rickys character and one that really put me off him on a moral standing.

That and a few other things closer to home, you know what I mean bro.
No thanks from them.

Come on Andre, you know as well as I do and Saddo does, that he was completely oblivious to that. Jeez, Rick wouldnt even know how to switch a laptop on, the same goes for Ray pretty much. Anyway, nice to rap with you again old timer

[Snakey]

I have it on good authority that the reason rickys chin went down hill was because he left graham, graham had been talking to margarito and had actually been plastering rickys chin in his sleep

[porkypara]

To be fair I think it had to be done, and it was a decision that had to be really forced upon Rick by his dad. Billy had fallen out with Ray many times, and Billy had also upset Matthew and Rick on numerous occasions. Billy simply wasnt interested anymore, nor could his body take the rigours of training Ricky. Billy was also training Ricky in a style that suited him, it was all the bodybelt and nothing more, which really didnt help Rick and certainly was one of the reasons Ricky became very one-dimensional.

Billy couldnt work the pads, his hands were fucked, so all the focus was around the bodybelt, and Ricky's performances mirrored this. He became very bull and rush in his tactics, smothering his opponents, a style that was no longer educated in it's approach. Rick certainly needed to go back to basics in alot of areas.

During the training camp for the Lazcano fight, Billy actually booked a 2 week holiday to America to his ranch in Georgia. This was only 4 weeks into the camp, and you can imagine how that decision went down with the Hattons. But it was a clear indication of how Billy's primary interests were no longer focused around Ricky. It did turn out to be a little blessing in disguise though, as Ricky trained with Matthews trainer Lee Beard during that 2 week spell. I went down to the gym during this time and Lee had Ricky working alot on the pads and on combinations, Ricky looked like a kid reborn, and was really enjoying relearning the 'technical' side of the game again.

It was Lee who introduced the Hattons to Mayweather Snr, as Lee's step-son had been living in Vegas for the 2 years previous training with Floyd Snr. In hindsight, this was a terrible introduction, as Floyd didnt really give 2 shits about Rick, I heard he didnt even rate him as a fighter.

The bottom line is I think Ray shouldnt have gone for the high profile trainer, but should have let Rick train with Lee Beard who had been doing fantastic work with Matthew and brought him on leaps and bounds after Billy had ditched Matthew.

I got to know Billy and he wasnt the nicest of people in my experience. Personally I felt that alot had gone to his head, and he had a very arrogant manner about him, and made alot of mistakes.

To be fair to Rick, he had a verbal agreement with Billy that he made when he was 17 years old. This was that Billy got 10% of Ricks purse. Throughout all the years this agreement was never put into writing, and Rick paid Billy his dues as initially agreed. Although I know Ray wasnt too happy about it.

I need to be careful here, so I'll say it like this. It is alleged that when Ricky told Billy they would be splitting, Billy's first words were EDITED OUT TO BE SAFE JIMMY. This alleged remark obviously upset Ricky alot. Ricky also gave Billy a few hundred thousand as a thankyou for all the years. It is also alleged that Billy was looking to serve legal action over his pay for the Mayweather fight as he believed he was due 10% of the overall purse including all PPV sales etc.

Ricky certainly made Billy a millionaire during their time together, and the chance of them ever getting back together after all the bad blood that followed the split is probably somewhere between slim and none, and as Don King says.....slim is outta town.

I know for certain that Ricky, although I believe it was in his best interest, never really wanted to leave Billy. This parting was on the cards long before the Mayweather fight, and certain things that happened in Vegas during that week from Billy's side, certainly didnt help his cause. Ricky is very loyal, and Ray spoke to me many times about the fact that Rick didnt want to leave Billy, I know this for a fact, and it was all down to loyalty. Ray could never understand Rick choosing his loyalty for Billy over his progression as a fighter. I talked to Ray about how I felt Ricky's style had become horrible to watch for me and that he needed someone new to bring in new ideas, or at least take him back to the clever but ferocious attacking style he once applied. I honestly cannot say I really enjoyed any fight to watch after the Tszyu fight, apart from maybe the first 5 rounds against Urango when he boxed beautifully.Even the Castillo perfomance was the same old smother and hold tactics that wasnt pretty at all, it was just glossed over with that terrific shot to the liver.

He always felt, as did I, that Rick had gone as far as he could with Billy, and that his style of fighting was nothing like it was before the Tsyzu fight. And it wasnt. I cant blame Billy for all that, but I know his limitations in training due to his aged years certainly had as much effect on Rick's stagnation as what Rick's beliefs that the style that beat Tsyzu would work for everyone he fought.

Just my 2 cents.

You seem to know the Hattons very well.

Whats your relationship with them?

[gudnite vienna]

To be fair I think it had to be done, and it was a decision that had to be really forced upon Rick by his dad. Billy had fallen out with Ray many times, and Billy had also upset Matthew and Rick on numerous occasions. Billy simply wasnt interested anymore, nor could his body take the rigours of training Ricky. Billy was also training Ricky in a style that suited him, it was all the bodybelt and nothing more, which really didnt help Rick and certainly was one of the reasons Ricky became very one-dimensional.

Billy couldnt work the pads, his hands were fucked, so all the focus was around the bodybelt, and Ricky's performances mirrored this. He became very bull and rush in his tactics, smothering his opponents, a style that was no longer educated in it's approach. Rick certainly needed to go back to basics in alot of areas.

During the training camp for the Lazcano fight, Billy actually booked a 2 week holiday to America to his ranch in Georgia. This was only 4 weeks into the camp, and you can imagine how that decision went down with the Hattons. But it was a clear indication of how Billy's primary interests were no longer focused around Ricky. It did turn out to be a little blessing in disguise though, as Ricky trained with Matthews trainer Lee Beard during that 2 week spell. I went down to the gym during this time and Lee had Ricky working alot on the pads and on combinations, Ricky looked like a kid reborn, and was really enjoying relearning the 'technical' side of the game again.

It was Lee who introduced the Hattons to Mayweather Snr, as Lee's step-son had been living in Vegas for the 2 years previous training with Floyd Snr. In hindsight, this was a terrible introduction, as Floyd didnt really give 2 shits about Rick, I heard he didnt even rate him as a fighter.

The bottom line is I think Ray shouldnt have gone for the high profile trainer, but should have let Rick train with Lee Beard who had been doing fantastic work with Matthew and brought him on leaps and bounds after Billy had ditched Matthew.

I got to know Billy and he wasnt the nicest of people in my experience. Personally I felt that alot had gone to his head, and he had a very arrogant manner about him, and made alot of mistakes.

To be fair to Rick, he had a verbal agreement with Billy that he made when he was 17 years old. This was that Billy got 10% of Ricks purse. Throughout all the years this agreement was never put into writing, and Rick paid Billy his dues as initially agreed. Although I know Ray wasnt too happy about it.

I need to be careful here, so I'll say it like this. It is alleged that when Ricky told Billy they would be splitting, Billy's first words were EDITED OUT TO BE SAFE JIMMY. This alleged remark obviously upset Ricky alot. Ricky also gave Billy a few hundred thousand as a thankyou for all the years. It is also alleged that Billy was looking to serve legal action over his pay for the Mayweather fight as he believed he was due 10% of the overall purse including all PPV sales etc.

Ricky certainly made Billy a millionaire during their time together, and the chance of them ever getting back together after all the bad blood that followed the split is probably somewhere between slim and none, and as Don King says.....slim is outta town.

I know for certain that Ricky, although I believe it was in his best interest, never really wanted to leave Billy. This parting was on the cards long before the Mayweather fight, and certain things that happened in Vegas during that week from Billy's side, certainly didnt help his cause. Ricky is very loyal, and Ray spoke to me many times about the fact that Rick didnt want to leave Billy, I know this for a fact, and it was all down to loyalty. Ray could never understand Rick choosing his loyalty for Billy over his progression as a fighter. I talked to Ray about how I felt Ricky's style had become horrible to watch for me and that he needed someone new to bring in new ideas, or at least take him back to the clever but ferocious attacking style he once applied. I honestly cannot say I really enjoyed any fight to watch after the Tszyu fight, apart from maybe the first 5 rounds against Urango when he boxed beautifully.Even the Castillo perfomance was the same old smother and hold tactics that wasnt pretty at all, it was just glossed over with that terrific shot to the liver.

He always felt, as did I, that Rick had gone as far as he could with Billy, and that his style of fighting was nothing like it was before the Tsyzu fight. And it wasnt. I cant blame Billy for all that, but I know his limitations in training due to his aged years certainly had as much effect on Rick's stagnation as what Rick's beliefs that the style that beat Tsyzu would work for everyone he fought.

Just my 2 cents.

You seem to know the Hattons very well.

Whats your relationship with them?

interesting that, you must know them??

[Saddo]

To be fair I think it had to be done, and it was a decision that had to be really forced upon Rick by his dad. Billy had fallen out with Ray many times, and Billy had also upset Matthew and Rick on numerous occasions. Billy simply wasnt interested anymore, nor could his body take the rigours of training Ricky. Billy was also training Ricky in a style that suited him, it was all the bodybelt and nothing more, which really didnt help Rick and certainly was one of the reasons Ricky became very one-dimensional.

Billy couldnt work the pads, his hands were fucked, so all the focus was around the bodybelt, and Ricky's performances mirrored this. He became very bull and rush in his tactics, smothering his opponents, a style that was no longer educated in it's approach. Rick certainly needed to go back to basics in alot of areas.

During the training camp for the Lazcano fight, Billy actually booked a 2 week holiday to America to his ranch in Georgia. This was only 4 weeks into the camp, and you can imagine how that decision went down with the Hattons. But it was a clear indication of how Billy's primary interests were no longer focused around Ricky. It did turn out to be a little blessing in disguise though, as Ricky trained with Matthews trainer Lee Beard during that 2 week spell. I went down to the gym during this time and Lee had Ricky working alot on the pads and on combinations, Ricky looked like a kid reborn, and was really enjoying relearning the 'technical' side of the game again.

It was Lee who introduced the Hattons to Mayweather Snr, as Lee's step-son had been living in Vegas for the 2 years previous training with Floyd Snr. In hindsight, this was a terrible introduction, as Floyd didnt really give 2 shits about Rick, I heard he didnt even rate him as a fighter.

The bottom line is I think Ray shouldnt have gone for the high profile trainer, but should have let Rick train with Lee Beard who had been doing fantastic work with Matthew and brought him on leaps and bounds after Billy had ditched Matthew.

I got to know Billy and he wasnt the nicest of people in my experience. Personally I felt that alot had gone to his head, and he had a very arrogant manner about him, and made alot of mistakes.

To be fair to Rick, he had a verbal agreement with Billy that he made when he was 17 years old. This was that Billy got 10% of Ricks purse. Throughout all the years this agreement was never put into writing, and Rick paid Billy his dues as initially agreed. Although I know Ray wasnt too happy about it.

I need to be careful here, so I'll say it like this. It is alleged that when Ricky told Billy they would be splitting, EDITED OUT TO BE SAFE JIMMY. This alleged remark obviously upset Ricky alot. Ricky also gave Billy a few hundred thousand as a thankyou for all the years. It is also alleged that Billy was looking to serve legal action over his pay for the Mayweather fight as he believed he was due 10% of the overall purse including all PPV sales etc.

Ricky certainly made Billy a millionaire during their time together, and the chance of them ever getting back together after all the bad blood that followed the split is probably somewhere between slim and none, and as Don King says.....slim is outta town.

I know for certain that Ricky, although I believe it was in his best interest, never really wanted to leave Billy. This parting was on the cards long before the Mayweather fight, and certain things that happened in Vegas during that week from Billy's side, certainly didnt help his cause. Ricky is very loyal, and Ray spoke to me many times about the fact that Rick didnt want to leave Billy, I know this for a fact, and it was all down to loyalty. Ray could never understand Rick choosing his loyalty for Billy over his progression as a fighter. I talked to Ray about how I felt Ricky's style had become horrible to watch for me and that he needed someone new to bring in new ideas, or at least take him back to the clever but ferocious attacking style he once applied. I honestly cannot say I really enjoyed any fight to watch after the Tszyu fight, apart from maybe the first 5 rounds against Urango when he boxed beautifully.Even the Castillo perfomance was the same old smother and hold tactics that wasnt pretty at all, it was just glossed over with that terrific shot to the liver.

He always felt, as did I, that Rick had gone as far as he could with Billy, and that his style of fighting was nothing like it was before the Tsyzu fight. And it wasnt. I cant blame Billy for all that, but I know his limitations in training due to his aged years certainly had as much effect on Rick's stagnation as what Rick's beliefs that the style that beat Tsyzu would work for everyone he fought.

Just my 2 cents.

great big post i would expect no less from you mate... but no amount of spin makes it sit right with me.

Well mate they done well together long enough before the loss and I'm supprised Ricky dad didn't say anything earlier if it was that bad.... all i know for a fact is how gutted Graham was when it got announced that he decided to leave them as an added blow... until he came out himself to set the record straight

thing is mate when he was winning everyone sung Graham praise including yourself... but as soon as he lost to lets face it one of the greats... graham couldn,t train anymore and you and me both know how the hangers on whisper behind the scenes into the right ears.

If it aint broke don't fix it at this late stage and a loss to mayweather at the time was no shame

maybe i think ricky owed it to graham if he needed tweeking it should have been done years before not at the tail end

I totally take you point on matty he has come on leaps and bounds but some partnerships work better...

would Brendan Ingle have made Lennox Lewis a better fighter than Manny Steward... HELL NO...but he sure as hell had a better grasp on Naz

didn't Matty leave Graham and not the other way around?

P.S had to tweek your post a bit mate... never know who reads this stuff.

He always felt, as did I, that Rick had gone as far as he could with Billy, and that his style of fighting was nothing like it was before the Tsyzu fight. And it wasnt. I cant blame Billy for all that, but I know his limitations in training due to his aged years certainly had as much effect on Rick's stagnation as what Rick's beliefs that the style that beat Tsyzu would work for everyone he fought.

I totally agree with that but then its prob down to the only tactic that worked at that level... and they both deep down knew that hence the screaming in the Urango fight for him to grab when he was winning almost every round.

anyways nice to see you posting again

[Mattyhitman]

Interesting thread Saddo

In answer to your original question, then Yes, i believe he did the right thing leaving Graham, for the simple fact Billy could not train Ricky to the best of his capabilities, not like he could say 2-3 yrs previously, age gets to all of us at some point mate. All those years of a young hungry Hatton battering your hands on a daily basis whilst in training would damage most peeps, let alone a trainer in the calabir of Graham. The amount of injections he had to take to get himself through training sessions was not good for him, nor Hatton, and showed in the latter part of their relationship IMO.

As far as Jimmy knowing Ricky goes for some of you, it was he and Saddo that created the Original Hatton website some years ago. And due to that im glad to say i also came to know Saddo and the Hattons very well. Props to you Saddo for the original site mate

PS. great post kidda !!

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I think it was Ricky himself who had said Billy was busted up and that training wasn't going so smoothly.

No idea how long Hatton felt this way before he actually said something?

[ICB]

All this talk is all well and good, but the fact is Ricky Hatton was a good fighter but never a great fighter. Kostya Tszyu was past his best, but was still a good fighter when Ricky Hatton fought him, so i give him credit.

But again he had the ref on his side, something that i never hear the Ricky Hatton fans say, but they never let us forget it in the Floyd Mayweather Jr fight.

And the fact is it was just a perfect style match up for Ricky Hatton, Kostya Tszyu hated fighters that gave him no room to punch. He always needed distance to get his power shots off, but his inside game was pretty much mediocre at best, which is why Vince Phillips beat him aswell.

Outside of that one win his career is nothing spectacular, now i've got nothing against Ricky Hatton he's a good guy who did try his best. But even in his early fights you could see his flaws.

And as Ono pointed out in his thread, he was getting rocked plenty of times early in his career. So i think his chin has got overrated he's never had a solid chin.

And he's always struggled against fast fighters, especially Southpaw's and anyone who's a big Ricky Hatton fan knows about these flaws since the Amateur's.

And it doesn't really matter what trainer he had, he would of never have beaten the 2 fighters he lost too. There special fighters and Ricky Hatton is only a good fighter, and no good fighter beats a special fighter.

I think Ricky Hatton has probably had the best career he could have, despite some of his shortcomings. But again im sorry Ricky Hatton fans but i don't think his career is that special honestly, and he was never anywhere close to being great.

But even though im not a fan, he did do well for our country. But its about time he hung them up. He lost too the two best fighters of our generation, and he can leave the sport knowing that fact.

[Jimmy G-Force]

As far as Jimmy knowing Ricky goes for some of you, it was he and Saddo that created the Original Hatton website some years ago. Props to you Saddo for the original site mate

To be fair, I created nothing, Saddo did everything. And thanks to Saddo, I went from being a huge Ricky Hatton fan, to a good friend of his and his family for nearly 9 years now. I will be forever in your debt pal.

thing is mate when he was winning everyone sung Graham praise including yourself...

To be honest mate, me and Ray were talking about Ricks style for years before this happened. Rick would never have beaten Floyd with Cus, Angelo, Teddy or Freddie all working with him. Everything just came to a head after that fight, so I can see how it looked like the classic first loss, sack the trainer scenario, but I assure you, this wasnt the case, just pure coincidence.

As for Matty leaving Billy, I guess he did, but he had no choice, if you know what I mean.

[Saddo]

Cheers Matty

Class as always Jimmy