Lara vs. Williams who won in your eyes

[killersheep]

Sorry if this has already been done.

I just wanted to get a poll going to see quantify how people saw this.

[CFH]

Lara by a wide margin. I don't think Williams threw more than 12 effective punches all night.

[Mars_ax]

Lara landed most of the power shots and effective punches in the fight, giving Williams every bit of the benefit of doubt in close and/or hard to score rounds, the very best score I could give Williams is: 4 rounds and Lara 8 rounds or Lara wins 116-112 - but I really believe Lara won even bigger, 9-3 or even 10-2 in rounds, Lara schooled Williams and gave him a beating.

In any event, unless Ray Charles or Helen Keller had been scoring the fight, there's no fucking way Williams was close to winning or even getting a draw.

[J_C]

I thought Lara won 7 or 8 rounds so I voted close decision in the poll. But heres a post I made in another thread earlier which will probably be disputed somewhat

Here is my analysis/opinion of each round for what I saw (I have watched it twice).

Clear Lara rounds - 1,3,7,9,11 - so 5 rounds
Clear Williams rounds - 4,5,10 - so 3 rounds
Close rounds where I can see an argument for either - 2,6,8,12 - so 4 rounds

If you score all 4 closeish/pick em rounds to Williams you can have him winning the fight. As he was the one throwing a ton of punches I can see how the decision happened the way it did (in terms of the outcome; the 116-114 card is wrong). It is cheeky to score all the close rounds to 1 fighter but still there it is, I cant say its a robbery cos of that fact. The closer rounds were the old argument of clean punches vs workrate.

1st viewing I had it 115-113 Lara and 2nd viewing 116-112 Lara (I scored the 8th round differently is all the difference was).

I think Williams was very lucky to get the decision but ive seen much worse. I think the commentary was extremely bias. Every shot Lara lands was made a big deal of but Williams did a lot of work when Lara took time off and did things like land a bunch of body shots up close and they didnt say anything about it etc.

[Spicoli]

Think I had Williams winning 3 rounds.

[ICB]

1 Lara
2 Lara
3 Lara
4 Williams
5 Williams
6 Williams
7 Lara
8 Williams
9 Lara
10 Lara
11 Lara
12 Lara

116-112 Lara.

[Mar]

I picked lara like everyone except the judges did. Still yet to rewatch it, with no volume and sober judging each round and not the fight as a whole, but looks like most saw it that way.

[bcollins]

Lara easily. If a guy throws a large volume of punches, and misses most, then that activity shouldn't be considered a positive thing. Lara was patient, precise, and effective.

[CommunistKevin]

Seriously I know work rate is a criteria. But it is hilarious that apparently if you throw over a thousand punches it is ok to be blasted non stop and wobbled several times throughout the fight. Williams punches were ineffective the whole fight.

[MMASUX]

The word "robbery" is used too often in boxing, but this was a definite ROBBERY!!!! I had Lara winnig 118-110, possibly 117-111. I don't know how the hell they scored that fight. I feel bad for Lara, where does he go from here? He looks like a tough fight for anyone at 154.

[Nameless]

Lara by a wide margin. The fight was not even competitive in my eyes and I was kind of rooting for Williams.

[Cressa121]

117-11 Lara. I really have no idea how anyone can see that fight for Williams. Lara landed more punches, landed the more effective punches...it wasn't even competitive to me.

[Majesty]

I didn't have it a wide margin by any stretch. Especially after rewatching the fight. Like I said the night of the fight Lara didn't do himself any favors. There were some rounds that he seemed to be coasting just waiting on his one shot to snap williams head back.

There was a bunch of scenarios where he didnt do much but coast and when he'd hold a lot, or when he'd just stand on the inside and let Williams get off on him. This kind of thing cost him in the long run. He seemed like he was trying to win the fight on that one straight left hand and sometimes he didn't do it enough. The rounds he stayed with it in, he did particularly well and won them more convincingly than Williams did. But I can't give Lara an entire round for 3 left hands when he lets Williams continuously work him on the inside the rest of the round and coast. I had Lara winning the first time but was also pretty swayed by the sympathy the announcers gave, I watched the fight again that night not scoring it but feeling Lara didn't do himself any favors, and I watched the Sunday morning replay and had Williams winning.

I think Lara lost the fight more than Williams won it, he didn't step on the gas when he had such an open target in front of him, some rounds he won was devastating because when he poured it on you could see the gap between him and Williams, but he seemed more often than not intend on looking to land the one left hand and then coast, and when he coasted was when Williams worked him. And that ultimately apparently cost him.

[CommunistKevin]

I didn't have it a wide margin by any stretch. Especially after rewatching the fight. Like I said the night of the fight Lara didn't do himself any favors. There were some rounds that he seemed to be coasting just waiting on his one shot to snap williams head back.

There was a bunch of scenarios where he didnt do much but coast and when he'd hold a lot, or when he'd just stand on the inside and let Williams get off on him. This kind of thing cost him in the long run. He seemed like he was trying to win the fight on that one straight left hand and sometimes he didn't do it enough. The rounds he stayed with it in, he did particularly well and won them more convincingly than Williams did. But I can't give Lara an entire round for 3 left hands when he lets Williams continuously work him on the inside the rest of the round and coast. I had Lara winning the first time but was also pretty swayed by the sympathy the announcers gave, I watched the fight again that night not scoring it but feeling Lara didn't do himself any favors, and I watched the Sunday morning replay and had Williams winning.

I think Lara lost the fight more than Williams won it, he didn't step on the gas when he had such an open target in front of him, some rounds he won was devastating because when he poured it on you could see the gap between him and Williams, but he seemed more often than not intend on looking to land the one left hand and then coast, and when he coasted was when Williams worked him. And that ultimately apparently cost him.

You know I agree with you on a lot of points. I still have Lara winning though but Lara taking breaks and not throwing and backing away a lot did hurt him. But I mean Williams shots were almost worthless he was just throwing garbage so I can not give him too much credit

[JazMerkin]

I didn't have it a wide margin by any stretch. Especially after rewatching the fight. Like I said the night of the fight Lara didn't do himself any favors. There were some rounds that he seemed to be coasting just waiting on his one shot to snap williams head back.

There was a bunch of scenarios where he didnt do much but coast and when he'd hold a lot, or when he'd just stand on the inside and let Williams get off on him. This kind of thing cost him in the long run. He seemed like he was trying to win the fight on that one straight left hand and sometimes he didn't do it enough. The rounds he stayed with it in, he did particularly well and won them more convincingly than Williams did. But I can't give Lara an entire round for 3 left hands when he lets Williams continuously work him on the inside the rest of the round and coast. I had Lara winning the first time but was also pretty swayed by the sympathy the announcers gave, I watched the fight again that night not scoring it but feeling Lara didn't do himself any favors, and I watched the Sunday morning replay and had Williams winning.

I think Lara lost the fight more than Williams won it, he didn't step on the gas when he had such an open target in front of him, some rounds he won was devastating because when he poured it on you could see the gap between him and Williams, but he seemed more often than not intend on looking to land the one left hand and then coast, and when he coasted was when Williams worked him. And that ultimately apparently cost him.

I don't see how you could have Williams winning. I've watched it a number of times now & at best, where I give Williams rounds for doing ANYTHING, it's still 7-5 for Lara & quite frankly he still wins about 3 more for me clearly. You actually have to land punches. It's called effective aggression. If your opponent throws 100 punches in a round & lands 10 & you throw 40 & land 20, you win the round. It's simple.

There a four criteria for scoring a fight & every round

Clean & Effective Punching - Williams punching was about as unclean & ineffective as it gets, Lara clearly bossed this through the fight. You can't even argue that is was Williams throwing the harder shots.

Defense - Apart from failing to defend a headbutt, this was clearly Lara's again. In no round did Williams land more than a quarter of all the punches he threw.

Ring Generalship - Who was more comfortable fighting their fight? Who was controlling how proceedings were unfolding? Even if you think Lara was lazy, the fact was he was always in control & whenever Williams looked like he took some initiative, Lara snatched it right back.

Effective Aggression - Like I said, 'effective' is the key word. Now even if you somehow give this to Williams based on Lara 'giving away' rounds, did you do the same thing in Froch-Dirrell? I seem to remember you didn't. Because there an awful lot of similarities, only difference being that Lara didn't keep falling over, have points deducted & generally avoid engaging.