Thoughts on Pac/JMM

[Greig]

I was blown away by this fight, thought it was far and away the best of the four, just for the sheer drama of the ending. Credit to Marquez, his punching looked HEAVY, but Pacman - for whatever reason - is slipping, you could see it in the third Marquez fight and the Bradley fight.

Wrote a bit about it on my blog:-

The View from the Outer | Thoughts on sport, music, film, books and life.

[imp]

Hi greig,

Well done for the blog.

I tend to think that manny fought very well and was still as fast as he always was with that same incredible power.

He was winning on all scorecards and after knocking down marquez and breaking his nose he seemed very confident.

Marquez timed the shot perfectly and knocked him out.

If manny is slipping then marquez is slipping twice as much as he is 40 years old and is not as used to the weight as manny is.

Like i said before on other threads if manny had fought another clotty or hatton type fighter after margarito we would still be singing his praises as he walks through these opponents.

The opponent should deserve all the praise..so well done old marquez.

Clotty, oscar, margarito, hatton and cotto do not fight like marquez...if they did we would have had a lot of rematches going on.

[erics44]

i cant help but think that if it wasnt for all this talk of were gonna knock him out this time, mannys gonna finish him when he gets him hurt and all that from roach then manny would be the winner again

he over commited because of this and got caught

manny had won 2 out of the 3 previous fights (close contraversial or not) so why change a winning formula

[Greig]

For me the telling thing that gave away the fact that Pac is slipping was not the knockout, but rather the knockdown in round three. I mean, seriously, you could see that punch from a mile away but it's like Pac lost focus for a second and didn't see it coming. A punch of that speed (certainly not thrown with Mosley or Mayweather sharpness) from that distance should have not got through IMO, and is a worrying sign.

[imp]

For me the telling thing that gave away the fact that Pac is slipping was not the knockout, but rather the knockdown in round three. I mean, seriously, you could see that punch from a mile away but it's like Pac lost focus for a second and didn't see it coming. A punch of that speed (certainly not thrown with Mosley or Mayweather sharpness) from that distance should have not got through IMO, and is a worrying sign.

The knockdown in rd 3 could have been seen a mile way but pac probably didnt expect it to have all that power behind it.

He underestimated marquez.

Mayweather, marquez and manny are all slipping..its all relative.

[Memphis]

Spot on. I thought Manny looked pretty good and I was worried about Marquez.

Lets take the spectacular faceplant sparkage out of the picture and assume Marquez cant splat him with a single hit. I think Manny slowly but surely would have busted him up and we'd all be saying how great he looked. 3rd round knockdown....meh, its only become a talking point because he got ironed out.

[imp]

Spot on. I thought Manny looked pretty good and I was worried about Marquez.

Lets take the spectacular faceplant sparkage out of the picture and assume Marquez cant splat him with a single hit. I think Manny slowly but surely would have busted him up and we'd all be saying how great he looked. 3rd round knockdown....meh, its only become a talking point because he got ironed out.

Exactly.

The great thing about Manny is that he had no excuses after the fight and said he never saw the punch!

So why o why are we trying to find excuses when manny isnt?!

[TitoFan]

Thoughts?

I just thought it was a thoroughly entertaining fight, and was glad that it ended decisively and without controversy. We've all had a little fun poking fun at the excuse makers, but seriously... why detract from either of them? It was two great warriors, meeting for a 4th time, giving us boxing fans a good show. There were knockdowns on both sides, and Pac ran into a right hand that would've floored anybody. Marquez is just about 40 years old, and one has to wonder how many more fights he has left, as Father Time comes rather quickly. Pac had been slipping as of late, but I saw a little more fire in him this time than in the Bradley fight. Maybe fighting Marquez had something to do with that.

The fight itself certainly has nothing to do with Mayweather, and much less about Naz . It was Pac and Marquez, going toe-to-toe. You can make a case for Floyd being a common opponent to Marquez, and how he thoroughly dominated Marquez. But that was a Marquez overwhelmed with the weight gain he forced upon himself in order to face the world's top p4p. I don't think anyone is arguing right now about Floyd and Pac, first of all because the fight just became completely pointless... its time passed a couple of years ago.

Pac-Marquez IV was a terrific fight while it lasted, probably surpassing most of our expectations and putting fears of another controversial decision to rest. There's no need for a Pac-Marquez V.

[Greig]

I'm not so sure Memphis - I appreciate what you're saying, but I think the third-round knockdown was more important than what you're making out, although I agree that Manny did look good between the knockdown and getting KO'd.

I'm actually perplexed as to why Marquez didn't press the advantage - probably because he didn't want to walk into one like Manny did. Marquez always likes guys coming at him, it was almost like those two rounds were setting Pac up to walk into one - lull him into a false sense of security by taking a few, then wham! The thing people have to realise is that Manny is a fantastic counterpuncher as well - he always looks at his absolute best against guys who like to press (Hatton, Cotto, Margarito) and this is precisely why Marquez would always give him trouble and precisely why he never - not in a month of Sundays - would have got close to beating Floyd.

The reason I think the third-round knockdown was so important is because a) Manny should not have been hit with that punch and b) it was the cleanest he'd ever been knocked down that I'd seen and he was clearly badly shaken by the punch.

I think it's two much of a coincidence that in round three he gets hit with that punch, and then three rounds later is KO's for the first time in 13 years. That punch was the beginning of the end.