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Thread: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

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    Default Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    An even Match-Up.

    Joe Frazier {1970}
    Nickname > 'Smokin Joe'
    Age......... 26
    Height .... 5' 11"
    Reach...... 73"
    Weight..... 204 lbs.
    Record..... 26-0-0 {23 KO's}

    Sam McVea
    Nickname > 'Samuel E. Mac'
    Age......... 27
    Height..... 5' 10 1/2"
    Reach...... 75"
    Weight..... 210 lbs.
    Record..... 46-5-3 {42 KO's}

    Can 'Smokin Joe' and his forward pressing non-stop attack take down the
    'muscular' Sam McVea who is built like a 'tank'.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sam McVea

    Has only lost '5' times in '54-Bouts' while facing the best Heavyweights out there
    over a 10-Year career.

    Has only lost to; Jack Johnson {3-Times}, Denver Ed Martin and Joe Jeannette.

    The '3' losses to Jack Jonson were on;
    * February 26, 1903 {L Dec 20} ........ Sam at age; 18 years, 9 months
    * October 27, 1903 {L Dec 20} ......... Sam at age; 19 years, 5 months
    * April 22, 1904 {L KO 20} ............... Sam at age; 19 years, 11 months

    Sam was too young and inexperienced for the 25 year-old Jack Johnson at that time, and was
    out-smarted in each bout. But Sam was competitive in each bout.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    'Style'

    Focuses on wearing down his opponents by using his 'brute strength' and thudding
    body blows. Not a 'finesse fighter' by any stretch.

    A powerful fighter, who is built like a 'cement pillar'. Has a tremendous lower-body
    {trunk}, and generates his power from thick muscular legs, buttocks and lower back.

    Sam possesses a great left-hook to the body, and adds in a thudding straight left-hand
    at his opponent as well. His short right-hands are loaded with power, and Sam uses
    his leverage and compact stature to deliver 'bone-jarring' right-uppercuts.

    Since June 1905 {6-Years}, Sam has gone an incredible {38-1-3} with '34' Knockouts
    against a litany of top quality Heavyweights.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-29-2014 at 11:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Joe Frazier out-staminas Sam. Frazier never got tired, just his eyes got shut a few times, otherwise Joe can fight 20 rounds.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Quote Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust View Post
    Joe Frazier out-staminas Sam. Frazier never got tired, just his eyes got shut a few times, otherwise Joe can fight 20 rounds.

    Lol Sammy went 48 rounds with Joe Jeanette before he aired out. The three amigos Wills, Jeanette and Mcvey would destroy the present class of heavyweights

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Have a read brock






    Sam McVey was one of the great black heavyweights of the nineteen 00's and teens, which included Jack Johnson, Joe Jeannette, Sam Langford, and Harry Wills. McVey possessed a compact, powerful physique and an awesome punch. His height and weight was about the same as Mike Tyson's. McVey weighed about 212-215 pounds at his peak near Mike Tyson’s prime weight, which was 216. At the height of his career Sam McVey was one of the most feared fighters in heavyweight history.

    McVey’s record of 62-14-11 (46 kayo’s) is an outstanding one given the quality of his opposition and the number of times he fought them. McVey fought the great Sam Langford 13 times, the clever Joe Jeannette 5 times, the giant Harry Wills 5 times, and heavyweight contenders Battling Jim Johnson and Jeff Clarke 7 and 6 times respectively. He lost all 3 of his fights to Jack Johnson who simply had his number much like Evander Holyfield had Mike Tyson’s. Despite his high level of opposition and numerous fights against them, his peak run was 35 wins out of 40 fights that included 32 knockouts, which proves his worth as a deadly heavyweight hitter.

    Historian Charley Rose regarded McVey as an all time heavyweight hitter, just as many do Tyson today, ranking Sam # 7 on his all time heavyweight list in 1968. McVey was a short, stocky built puncher like Iron Mike and with similar type punching ability. McVey, like Tyson, also had a lot of success at a young age; he was only 18 when he went 20 rounds with Jack Johnson in their first fight. McVey made his reputation as a fierce puncher knocking out former “colored heavyweight champion” Denver Ed Martin, a slick boxer known to have a good chin and fast footwork in one round. Sam lost a rematch to Martin on a ten round decision, and in a third fight with Martin, Sam knocked him stiff with a right hand in the 4th round. It was considered one of the fastest and fiercest fights seen in a San Diego ring to that time.

    McVey knocked out a lot of leading fighters of his time including Frank Craig, “The Harlem Coffee Cooler” a rough and tumble fighter in 3 rounds. He knocked out top notch heavyweights like Bill Lang in 2, Jack Lester in 8, Al Kubiak in 10, and Jim Stewart in 6. McVey knocked out Sandy Ferguson, who gave Joe Jeannette a very close fight in their first meeting, in 8 rounds, and he knocked out the promising “white hope” Arthur Pelkey in 4 rounds. Sam also held knockouts over highly regarded heavyweights Jim Barry, and Colin Bell.

    Recently a film of McVey has emerged. The film is not too impressive with the film speed making the fighters look ridiculous. Imagine one of Mike Tyson’s fights where 3 of every 4 frames are missing and the film speeded up. Tyson missing a wild punch as filmed by a hand-cranked camera would look hysterical, as do many of these old pre Charlie Chaplin films. One cannot judge the fighters of this period by the poor quality of film that exists. The subtlety of movement is lost, as one cannot see what the fighters are doing most of the time. One must give some weight to the eyewitness accounts of those who saw the fights.

    One such description is of McVey’s best fight against the legendary Sam Langford won by McVey on a 12 round decision in a viscous give and take fight on June 29, 1915 in Boston. The Boston Globe (Jun 30) reported, “At the start McVea got his short left hook working, and he was continually landing it on Langford’s face, jaw and stomach. His right he shot across many times effectively. So fast did McVea work that in one of the rounds he hooked Langford five times to the jaw and face in quick succession, not getting a return.” We marvel at Joe Louis triple left hook on film against Max Baer and here the newspaper account describes “five” “hooks” in “rapid succession.”

    The newspaper account continued, “McVea also use a jolting right uppercut. In one round it brought Langford’s teeth together so hard it sounded as of a bone had been snapped.” Ouch! McVey had Langford on the verge of a knockout in the 8th round after he punched Langford against the ropes with a terrific right to the jaw. Only the ropes kept him from going down. It was one of McVey’s best efforts. His overall record against the great Langford was a losing one 2-5-6, which says a lot about the greatness of the fighters in this period. It is sad that the top fighters of the current age don’t fight each other so often as we are robbed of a lot of great fights.

    One of Sam’s fiercest rivals was Joe Jeannette, a clever boxing master. Head to head Jeannette and McVey are 1-1-2 1 ND which is all even. Their April 1909 match ranks as one of the greatest boxing matches ever contested. The San Francisco Chronicle reported on April 18, 1909 “The greatest fight witnessed in France since John L. Sullivan and Charley Mitchell fought at Chantilly in 1888, Joe Jeannette of New York tonight defeated Sam McVey of California in the fiftieth round of a finish fight.”

    This fight was to establish who was the better of the two rivals. McVey gave Jeanette an awful beating during the first 30 rounds. Sam floored Joe 21 times in the first 19 rounds. After the 17th round bell Jeanette had to be dragged to his corner. There is no way he would have been allowed to continue under modern conditions. We do not let men take that kind of a beating nowadays. In an awesome display of punching power by McVey, Jeanette was downed 27 total times. McVey began to wear down after beating on Jeannette who refused to be counted out, despite the hammering he received. In the 39th round Joe sent a tiring Sam to the canvas for the first time. McVey would hit the canvas 6 more times in the next rounds. Jeannette won when McVey could not come out for the 50th round! Now who was better? The man who dominated most of the fight, displayed superior punching ability and total domination and would have won under modern rules e.g. McVey? Or was it Jeannette who actually won a battle of endurance and wills with his remarkable courage, determination and ability to absorb punishment?

    Consider in a rematch after their thrilling 49-round bout McVey and Jeannette fought to a 20 round “draw” on Dec 11 of the same year, but most spectators thought McVey was robbed as he was the aggressor throughout and landed the more effective punches, a riot followed the decision. If one considers the newspaper accounts then McVey got the better of their series.

    McVey fought the giant Harry Wills five times. The May 20, 1915 New York Herald said of McVey’s second fight against Wills that “McVey punished Wills terrifically most of the way, scoring a clean knockdown in the ninth, with a left to the stomach followed by a right to the jaw. Wills eye was cut in the 4th round and the flow of claret proved an added handicap” and “from the third round on the veteran (McVey) was winning easily.” McVey won the newspaper decision in ten rounds.

    McVey beat the younger, taller and heavier Harry Wills in their first two meetings, winning by 20-round decision in their first fight in New Orleans on December 20, 1914 and winning the Newspaper decision over ten rounds as described above. He then lost the next two by decision in 12 and a knockout in 5, although McVey claimed he was fouled in the latter contest. Their final fight was a 6 round No Contest that was not much more than an exhibition.

    Sam became ill in 1921 with pneumonia. He died on Dec 21 of that year. He would have been buried in a potter’s field if not for former heavyweight champion Jack Johnson stepping up and paying for his funeral.

    Charley Rose, as noted, rated Sam McVey, the # 7 heavyweight of all time in 1968. The Holiday 1998 Ring rated Sam at # 30 among all time heavyweights in the article “The 50 Greatest Heavyweights of All Time.” Cox’s Corner considers him among the 30 best fighters in heavyweight history.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Sam McVea

    He lost a close 10-Round Decision to 'Denver' Ed Martin on August 12, 1904.

    Sam was only {Age; 20 years, 3 months}, and only had 11-Bouts under his belt.

    Sam had KO'd {KO 1} 'Denver' Ed Martin only 11-Months earlier {September 15, 1903}

    Sam scored impressive Knockouts over 'Denver' Ed Martin in the 'subsequent' rematches.

    * January 1906 ...... KO 4
    * February 1907 .... KO 16

    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-27-2014 at 11:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    I had never heard of Sam before this thread.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Samuel McVea

    I'm leaning with 'Samuel E. Mac' over 'Smokin Joe' in a 15-Round
    'all-out' non-stop War.

    Both fighters will hit the canvas in this match-up.

    Mr. McVea was stronger than Joe, and he was naturally bigger.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Did Joe ever get knocked down by anyone else other than George?
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Did Joe ever get knocked down by anyone else other than George?

    September 21, 1966
    * Oscar Bonavena

    Oscar floored Joe 'twice' in the 2nd-Round 1966.

    Joe {Age; 22 years, 8 months}
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    September 20, 1965
    * Mike Bruce

    Mike floored Joe in the 1st-Round.

    Joe {Age; 21 years, 8 months} was in his 2nd Professional Bout.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Joe Frazier

    Joe's chin was 'stamped and certified' as solid steel.

    But, Joe did get rocked more than a few times in his career. Mainly, because
    he came in 'open' and straight forward.

    Though Joe 'bobbed-and-weaved', he was willing to take '3-Punches' just to
    deliver his 'one'.

    Joe was convinced, that no one could hurt him. He believed that no opponent
    could hit hard enough to put him away. Nobody.

    But, Manager - Eddie Futch was always worried about Joe walking into a
    'straight' right-hand.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-28-2014 at 01:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    "Knockdown Festival, As Sam McVea Defeats Smokin' Joe Over 15-Rounds"

    Sam McVea using pulverizing right-uppercuts and short powerful left-hooks, dropped
    Joe Frazier '6-times' enroute to a brutally hard-fought 15-Round Decision.

    The 27 year-old muscular McVea, used brute force to out-muscle Joe Frazier during
    the early-and-mid Rounds, before withstanding Smokin' Joe's hard-charge in the later
    Rounds, which included Sam getting floored '3-Times' himself.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Fight Recap"

    Sam wasted little time in this 15-Round Bout, and in the 1st-Round Sam caught Joe
    coming in with a powerful right-uppercut to the jaw 20-Seconds into the bout.

    Joe went down to his right-knee, but bounced up at the '1-Count'. This set the tone
    for the first-half of the fight.

    Joe was able to clear his head, and spent the rest of the Round with a more cautious
    advance.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sam took Round 2, by scoring with stiff left-hands and mixed in with short left-hooks
    to Joe's head. Joe was unable to get close to Sam without getting jolted by a hard punch.

    Sam moved in close, and used his superior strength to swarm over Joe and force
    him backwards.

    Late in the Round, Sam added in a few short rights to the head that snapped Joe's head back.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Round 3, Joe was 'wobbled' early, when he got tagged by a short left-hook to the head.

    Later in the Round, Sam caught Joe with a 'right-left-right' to the top of the head, and
    Joe went down at the {1:45 Mark}. Joe was up at the '2-Count'.

    Instead of staying away to clear his head, Joe went on the offensive and charged in at
    Sam.

    Sam smartly countered on a wide open Joe, and bounced a few punches off of Joe's head.

    Sam then dropped Joe again, by landing a 'hard' short left-hook to the jaw at the {2:10 Mark}.
    Joe went down on his knee's, but did bounce up immediately.

    Joe was more embarrassed than hurt. Joe took 20-Seconds to move away and clear his
    head, before charging back at Sam with a series of lefts, and did land a good 'triple'
    left-hook to the body at the end of the Round.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Round 4, Sam continued to 'thump' Joe each time that he got close. Sam mixed in
    short left-hooks to the head, and powerful right-uppercuts when the opening was there.

    Joe was frustrated that he could not get close enough to wing his powerhouse left-hook.

    Joe was sent back on his heels 'twice' at the midway-point in the session after getting
    tagged by several short right-uppercuts to the jaw.

    Sam 'bloodied' Joe's mouth when he caught him with another hard short left-hook at
    the {2:30 Mark}.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Round 5, Joe realized that Sam was 'too strong' for him at this time in the bout, and
    changed tactics.

    Instead of moving in close to trade with Sam, Joe stayed outside and used his left-jab.
    Joe was somewhat effective, as Sam was slow to counter.

    Joe was able to steal Round 5.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    After 5-Rounds, Sam McVea was ahead {4-1-0 in Rounds} and 49-43 in points.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-29-2014 at 11:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Joe struggled with Oscar Bonavena but Ali beat him easily. Styles make fights.

    So Joe does get up and win when knocked down unlike Tyson.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    After 5-Rounds

    Scorecard ....... 4-1-0 in Rounds and 49-43 in Points > Sam McVea
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Round 6 > Joe stays outside and uses his left-hand from long-range to
    out-hustle Sam over the first-half of the session.

    Sam can't match Joe's boxing skills, and is limited to throwing an occasional
    counter.

    The action stalls from the {1:30 Mark to the 2:15 Mark}.

    At the {2:20 Mark} > Joe makes a move inside and slams Sam with a few
    left-hooks to the mid-section. The punches seem to bother Sam, and he steps
    back for the first time in the bout.

    Joe presses Sam and scores with his best punches of the bout over the last
    20-Seconds, as he rakes Sam with a few decent right-hands to the head, and
    left-hooks to the upper-body.

    Bell.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Round 7 > Joe tries to step up the pace, and gets off with a few good punches
    to the head-and-body over the first 40-Seconds.

    But Sam counters Joe, and catches him at the {0:45 Mark} with a solid left-hook
    the jaw. Joe is 'hurt' and wobbles backwards.

    Sam steps in, and lands a jarring right-cross that sends Joe into the Ropes. Sam
    follows up with right-uppercut to the chin and Joe goes down on his backside at
    the {0:58 Mark}.

    Joe gets to one-knee at the '3-Count', and takes the full '8-Count' before rising.
    Joe is hurt, and skeeters on shaky-pins as the powerful McVea charges in.

    Sam bombards Joe with a series of short chopping punches. Joe teeters into the
    Ropes, and then backs across to the other side of the Ring. Sam is in total command
    and steadily hammers Joe with short power-punches for the next minute.

    Joe starts backing away fast at the {2:00 Mark}.

    Sam chases, and fires a hard left-hook to the jaw that drops Joe on his back at the
    {2:10 Mark}.

    Joe rolls over and gets up at the '5-Count'. The Referee asks Joe if he wants to
    continue. Joe says 'Yes'.

    Sam moves in, but is patient and tries to set Joe up for the 'finisher'. Joe grabs Sam
    and gets in close to smother the punches. That tactic works, as Sam can't get off
    another clean punch.

    Bell.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-28-2014 at 10:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Sam McVea

    * Muscular physique, and powerfully built.
    * Tremendous stamina.
    * Incredible strength.
    * Massive lower-trunk
    * Natural power.
    * 75" Reach
    * Powerful short left-hook
    * Vicious right-uppercut
    * Knockout power
    * Grade AAA 'Brute'
    * Durable

    Would out-muscle and out-strength the 'smaller' Joe Frazier for the
    first {two/thirds} of the bout.

    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-29-2014 at 03:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    Scorecard thru 7 Rounds

    In Rounds....... 5-2-0 > Sam McVea

    In Points ........ 68-60

    Sam has 'dropped' Smokin' Joe a total a '5-Times.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    'Round 8'

    Sam comes out fast, and tries for the finisher on a still 'groggy' Smokin' Joe.
    Sam lands a few left-hooks to Joe's head that forces him back on his heels.

    Sam tries a few right uppercuts, but he can't get in a hard blow, as Joe
    rolls away from the punches.

    Sam is continuing to punch, but he is not landing clean blows on Joe.

    Sam starts to slow down at the mid-way point in the session, and Joe has
    appeared to cleared the cob-webs out of his head.

    At the {1:40 Mark} Sam backs off to rest and to catch his wind. Joe sensing
    that Sam may have punched himself out a bit, moves in close and starts to
    work the body with a few left-hooks.

    Sam smothers Joe's left side to prevent further left-hooks from getting in.
    Joe then switches to right-hooks, and slams Sam's hip area at the {2:20 Mark}.

    The body punches are now starting to bother Sam, and he steps back and is
    on the defensive now.

    Joe out-works Sam over the last 30-Seconds.

    Round 8 > is 'Even' on the Scorecard.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-29-2014 at 11:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Frazier {1970} vs. Sam McVea {1911}

    'Round 9'

    Sam Mcvea comes out of his corner like a 'Lightning Bolt' and swarms over
    Smokin' Joe who is very slow coming out of his corner.

    Sam throws a barrage of punches on Joe, who is trapped in his own Corner.

    Sam lands a 'right-left' to Joe's head, and then clocks Joe with a short left-hook
    to the jaw at the {0:20 Mark}. Joe is stunned.

    Sam then adds in a 'left-right-left' to the top of Joe's head, and Joe goes down
    in a squatting position at the {0:25 Mark}. But Joe does not touch the canvas.

    The Referee jumps in to prevent Sam from hitting Joe again.

    The Referee then gives Joe an '8-Count'.



    The Sam McVea corner is 'screaming' at the Referee for stepping in when Joe was
    stunned, but not on the canvas.

    The action resumes at the {0:35 Mark}.

    Sam comes across the Ring like a 'Rampaging Rhino', and unloads a barrage of
    short power punches on Joe. Joe wobbles, but withstands the series of punches.

    Suddenly at the {1:20 Mark} Sam looks arm-weary from over-punching. Joe gets
    low, and rams into Sam's body like a 'blocking Fullback'.

    Joe stays in close for the next 40-Seconds and tries to maul Sam. At the {2:00 Mark}
    Joe starts sending in left-hooks to Sam's ribs.

    Sam who looks tired, is bothered by the hard punches, and drapes his arms over Joe
    and mauls him to bide time.

    Joe gets free at the {2:30 Mark}, and scores with a few decent wide left-hooks over
    the last session of the Round.
    Last edited by Bill Paxtom; 11-30-2014 at 02:11 PM.

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