American confederate flag

[walrus]

It is back in the spotlight. Many southern states still fly and or use the confederate flag in their own state flags. Now action is being taken to prevent southern states from displaying said flag. Democratically, I say if the state populations don't want it displayed it should be up to them. Imo I don't look at the confederate flag as a racist flag. I understand it certainly has those implications within it but what I'm trying to say is I look at the confederate flag as a part of American history. I always agreed with Lincoln's statement that slavery will be a stain on the American flag. It was, to me, almost unbelievable that under a constitution humans were considered property.

I still think the confederate flag is a distinct part of American history. I personally think it should remain. More than 500,000 Americans died on the battlefield many of those young men on the Southern side were not fighting for the right to keep slaves but fighting what they thought was a tyrannical government overriding states rights. Now Amazon is no longer selling items displaying the confederate flag and a large American based flag manufacturer is no longer making the confederate flag. I know this forum has more Europeans than Americans but does anyone have an opinion on this flag inflammation. Oddly, in 1992 Bill Clinton sported a confederate flag on one of his campaign buttons and Mr. Clinton signed a little order honoring the confederate flag during his time as governor.

[El Kabong]

It's the Battle flag of Northern Virginia that is being discussed. A Confederate flag not nor ever THE Confederate flag.

[El Kabong]

Also the Nazis banned that very flag for what it stands/stood for....States/Provincial rights. Not good for a tyrannical leader apparently

[walrus]

Perhaps I should have said the flag of the confederate. Despite that, I know what you are saying but do you think the state's, and they are not limited to Virginia that display it as a sign of their history should not do so.

[Spicoli]

Graveling Idiots stuck on banners and flags..if only it was that simple anymore. We wish we had the convenience of brand or symbol to prevent some lost cause from reaching his lack of potential. The churning and burning of debate on material only refires the truest of racist, misinformed clowns. A call to arms for folk already carved in stone..the irony of rebel flag..and/or many who could tell you fook all about the Civil war and still believe it was strictly about slavery. I have two Japanese battle flags on my car..am I next Media stuck on stupid with this one if you ask me.

[walrus]

Graveling Idiots stuck on banners and flags..if only it was that simple anymore. We wish we had the convenience of brand or symbol to prevent some lost cause from reaching his lack of potential. The churning and burning of debate on material only refires the truest of racist, misinformed clowns. A call to arms for folk already carved in stone..the irony of rebel flag..and/or many who could tell you fook all about the Civil war and still believe it was strictly about slavery. I have two Japanese battle flags on my car..am I next Media stuck on stupid with this one if you ask me.

Japanese battleflags, interesting, what brought about that

[greynotsoold]

I read yesterday that it is "revisionist history" to argue that slavery was not the sole cause of the war.

[El Kabong]

Amazon and Ebay are falling all over themselves to remove the flag...but oh, you want a Hammer & Sickle flag? Sure, we will sell that.

I read yesterday that it is "revisionist history" to argue that slavery was not the sole cause of the war.

The war is something that people don't accept the reality of. Here's a simple question to ask those that believe slavery was the main cause of the war....

"Was slavery banned first in the Confederate States or the Union states?"

But the reality of that will do no good as it will only confuse and enrage them

[walrus]

Slavery did play a major part in tensions betwixt north and south and you can read how it had been swept under the rug up until the Lincoln administration but there was more to the war than just the slavery issue. Some of the founding fathers wanted to address slavery in the declaration of independence but the majority felt the nation was not ready for it. Had the issue of slavery been handled by the founding fathers and saying this I mean had they banned it, would the civil war have taken place, who knows.

[El Kabong]

Slavery did play a major part in tensions betwixt north and south and you can read how it had been swept under the rug up until the Lincoln administration but there was more to the war than just the slavery issue. Some of the founding fathers wanted to address slavery in the declaration of independence but the majority felt the nation was not ready for it. Had the issue of slavery been handled by the founding fathers and saying this I mean had they banned it, would the civil war have taken place, who knows.

Well heavy taxation on the South and 0, I mean 0 Federal spending on the South isolated that part of the country regardless of slavery. It was agrarian society vs industrial society plain and simple and only 1 kind of economy was going to win the day as top dog.

[X]

I understand that flags are very important to Americans, and that they carry immense symbolism and also the weight of recent history .... so I don't think I really know enough about the South etc to comment on the use of the confederate flag.

The wider issue of exactly what the confederate flag means to people is enormously complex. Some see it as a vital part of their heritage, some see it as a symbol of rebellion, others see it as representing slavers. Those people will ALWAYS see it as they see it now.

It's like the Stars and Stripes .... Americans are very protective and passionate about their flag, but some Pakistani in Baluchistan will see it as representing something very different.

However, in the context of the recent shooting, I don't see any clear linkage with the confederate flag, apart from that he was photographed with one. He was also photographed wearing a Golds Gym t shirt and nobody is saying that should be banned?

[El Kabong]

No version of the Confederate flag EVER EVER EVER EVER flew on the deck of a slave trader ship...those flew American flags.

Sure the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia has been co-opted by some hateful groups but none of them the actual Confederate States.

Here's some perspective.





....so yeah, there's that

[El Kabong]

Also it's fucking typical for the news to turn their focus from "Aww what a horrible tragedy, those poor families" and "What strength, peace, and community Charleston and the whole of South Carolina has shown in the face of this horrible event!" to ...."Hey! Look at that flag! It's EEEEEVIL!!!!!"


Fucking news twats....all about the ratings never about results.


I think they were very disappointed that there were no riots and that professional protesters were told to "go home"

[SlimTrae]

I understand that flags are very important to Americans, and that they carry immense symbolism

Not all Americans.just the ones who claim to follow a Jesus that says take no graven images idols, aka symbols. What irony.


and also the weight of recent history .... so I don't think I really know enough about the South etc to comment on the use of the confederate flag.
It's a flag which heritage is steeped in chattel slavery. Not biblical servitude where men submitted themselves under tutliedge of older wiser men. One man even gained his master's daughter for a wife. The south's idea was to deny the right to read think, figure. Please google Henry Barry in the house of delegates in 1832 He was successful in claiming that abolition was an evil. And that the politicians with religion should shut down the light by which God had the capacity to enter a slave mind. Thus reducing my people to the level of the beast of the field. That is the heritage of the south. Slaves in the south had no clue of freedom, so some of their ignorant asses fought to stay enslaved

The wider issue of exactly what the confederate flag means to people is enormously complex. Some see it as a vital part of their heritage
Again, what does it consist of?

, some see it as a symbol of rebellion, others see it as representing slavers. Those people will ALWAYS see it as they see it now.


Ron Paul..that you hear some republicans talk about...please!!! Read what he thinks about lincoln...the war was not needed..it forever divided south and north...while Britain and other nations bought out their slaves....we had an uncivil war to do it....

It's like the Stars and Stripes .... Americans are very protective and passionate about their flag, but some Pakistani in Baluchistan will see it as representing something very different.
Side note...when a boxing match occurs between Mexico and Puerto Rico...man the winner will show their flag on their cars like...fuck the American flag....to no anger by white or black, funny shit to me.

However, in the context of the recent shooting, I don't see any clear linkage with the confederate flag, apart from that he was photographed with one. He was also photographed wearing a Golds Gym t shirt and nobody is saying that should be banned?

It is a detraction, you are very aware to be so distant from our shores

[SlimTrae]

Also it's fucking typical for the news to turn their focus from "Aww what a horrible tragedy, those poor families" and "What strength, peace, and community Charleston and the whole of South Carolina has shown in the face of this horrible event!" to ...."Hey! Look at that flag! It's EEEEEVIL!!!!!"


Fucking news twats....all about the ratings never about results.


I think they were very disappointed that there were no riots and that professional protesters were told to "go home"

I actually agree. Mainstream media is helping to detract by injecting the confederate flag. I am no fan of it, but can't see how that caused that sad soul to do what he did.
I'm at the Amtrak station right now...so I'm forced to watch CNN...they are acting as if this makes Donald Trump qualified....he is responding to the (tough) question, which is the flag.
Wrong question and CNN is straight up in the wrong.