Julio Ceasar Chavez vs. Juan Manuel Marquez

[mikeeod]

Was just looking at the "Greatest Mexican Boxer" thread, and while I feel that JCC is clearly the owner of that distinction due to his record and accomplishments, I wondered how he would perform vs other Mexican greats close to his size, and around his era (this criteria disqualifies Sanchez/Finito Lopez). Of all of the possible match ups (Barrera, Morales...etc.), I feel that JMM is the most interesting/difficult match up. Morales/Barrera were at least equal fighters during their primes (if not slightly better), but Marquez filled out and seemed larger/more comfortable at 135-140 than the other two.

This would be an amazing match up pitting JCC's stamina, accurate punching, durability, sound boxing fundamentals, and aggression against JMM's superior technique, defense, chin, and elite counter punching ability. Both could and would absorb significant punishment and fight at a frenetic pace, so I don't see either fighter stopping the other. Both also tended to start slow, which means this likely wouldn't turn into a Chavez-Taylor, or Hagler-Leonard type fight.

The more I think about this fight the more I feel that it would truly be 50/50, and that the fighter who would win would be whoever "had it" on that particular day. All fights would be razor thin/close decisions, full of controversy, and I can see a few draws. Anyone have a different perspective?

[Master]

JCC would beat JMM, he was a machine and a beast at lightweight. JMM did well against Casamajor but was put down at the weight by the Aussie so was a bit vulnerable.

JMM was no Meldrick Taylor with super fast hands either.

You are right Morales and Barrera were better at specific weights than JMM who excelled at p4p criteria better than them.

[vidgil]

It's a tough fight for both guys and I don't see either guy dominating the other. For me it's a toss up, I could see it going either way.

[Dark Lord Al]

JCC in his pomp at SFW takes a superhuman to beat him.

[VG_Addict]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

[mikeeod]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

Do you? I tend to think opposite, that the more aggressive Chavez would play right into JMM's counterpunching style. I go back and forth, honestly. A couple of days ago I thought Chavez would just overwhelm Marquez enroute to a decision. Today I just can't help but feel that the JMM who took a prime Pac Man's best shots would handle JCC's power and relentless pressure. I see Chavez walking into big counters, but having the chin and durability to hear the final bell. Do we all agree it would be a classic/great fight?!?!?

[Ron Swanson]

JCC would beat JMM, he was a machine and a beast at lightweight. JMM did well against Casamajor but was put down at the weight by the Aussie so was a bit vulnerable.

JMM was no Meldrick Taylor with super fast hands either.

You are right Morales and Barrera were better at specific weights than JMM who excelled at p4p criteria better than them.

What? Marquez was better period,(better than Berrera and Morales)that is why Morales didn't fight Marquez when he should have. And that in turn is why Marquez wouldn't fight Morales later. Marquez excelled at P4P criteria because he was a better fighter. He didn't need to be a skeleton at weigh in to gain an advantage, he didn't need advantages.

[Spicoli]

I don't think Chavez gets the respect he may deserve at spr feather and lightweight. Lighter, younger and sharp boxer there and not yet the hardened block turning your ribs into sawdust that he would be. I can't spot Marquez the chin between them and he too was more of a mover, counters for counters and not yet busting up really. He's done his own transformation once he bulked up. On a scale of focus and discipline Marquez owns that, and frankly he earned it the hard way and in the shadows with bigger grapefruits.

[Master]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

Do you? I tend to think opposite, that the more aggressive Chavez would play right into JMM's counterpunching style. I go back and forth, honestly. A couple of days ago I thought Chavez would just overwhelm Marquez enroute to a decision. Today I just can't help but feel that the JMM who took a prime Pac Man's best shots would handle JCC's power and relentless pressure. I see Chavez walking into big counters, but having the chin and durability to hear the final bell. Do we all agree it would be a classic/great fight?!?!?

Yes it would be a good fight but as Spicoli said JCC was exceptional fighter at super featherweight too. Probably hungrier and fresher at that weight.

[Dark Lord Al]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

Do you? I tend to think opposite, that the more aggressive Chavez would play right into JMM's counterpunching style. I go back and forth, honestly. A couple of days ago I thought Chavez would just overwhelm Marquez enroute to a decision. Today I just can't help but feel that the JMM who took a prime Pac Man's best shots would handle JCC's power and relentless pressure. I see Chavez walking into big counters, but having the chin and durability to hear the final bell. Do we all agree it would be a classic/great fight?!?!?

Yes it would be a good fight but as Spicoli said JCC was exceptional fighter at super featherweight too. Probably hungrier and fresher at that weight.

A man who loses to Freddie Norwood at FW is eaten alive by JCC at SFW.

[powerpuncher]

I think JCC wins, but Marquez definitely has his Moments. He would get in some huge shots off of counter punching,but JCC would be a little too much I think. Unlike pac, I don't think JCC's output would drop as significantly. I think JCC keeps up the pressure the entire fight to win an exciting fight comfortably.

[mikeeod]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

Do you? I tend to think opposite, that the more aggressive Chavez would play right into JMM's counterpunching style. I go back and forth, honestly. A couple of days ago I thought Chavez would just overwhelm Marquez enroute to a decision. Today I just can't help but feel that the JMM who took a prime Pac Man's best shots would handle JCC's power and relentless pressure. I see Chavez walking into big counters, but having the chin and durability to hear the final bell. Do we all agree it would be a classic/great fight?!?!?

Yes it would be a good fight but as Spicoli said JCC was exceptional fighter at super featherweight too. Probably hungrier and fresher at that weight.

A man who loses to Freddie Norwood at FW is eaten alive by JCC at SFW.

I can see your point and why you feel that way, but aren't we really talking about two different styles? Also, the JMM who lost to Norwood wasn't in his prime yet, he was green and still figuring things out. I'm talking about pitting these two against each other on their best nights, which in my mind is the Chavez who emasculated Edwin Rosario and the JMM who fought Pac the second and third time (he lost two razor thin decisions that were disputed by many). Speed bothered both of these fighters the most, evidenced by Chavez's fights vs. Taylor, Whitaker, and Oscar, and JMM's fights with Norwood, Pac, and Floyd. Neither of these fighters outspeeds the other, and I don't see either stopping the other (Chavez was a bull and JMM wasn't stopped by a prime Manny or Floyd), so I see a war with each trying to exert their will on the other. I can see a case for either, but I honestly don't see either guy being eaten alive by the other.

[Spicoli]

I'm still not convinced Marquez really lost to Norwood in the first place. That fight was an absolute horror show to be honest and Norwood was a tremendous talent, as well as one of the dirtiest fighters in recent memory.

[J_Undisputed]

I think JCC would be all wrong for JMM stylistically.

Do you? I tend to think opposite, that the more aggressive Chavez would play right into JMM's counterpunching style. I go back and forth, honestly. A couple of days ago I thought Chavez would just overwhelm Marquez enroute to a decision. Today I just can't help but feel that the JMM who took a prime Pac Man's best shots would handle JCC's power and relentless pressure. I see Chavez walking into big counters, but having the chin and durability to hear the final bell. Do we all agree it would be a classic/great fight?!?!?

Yes it would be a good fight but as Spicoli said JCC was exceptional fighter at super featherweight too. Probably hungrier and fresher at that weight.

A man who loses to Freddie Norwood at FW is eaten alive by JCC at SFW.

I can see your point and why you feel that way, but aren't we really talking about two different styles? Also, the JMM who lost to Norwood wasn't in his prime yet, he was green and still figuring things out. I'm talking about pitting these two against each other on their best nights, which in my mind is the Chavez who emasculated Edwin Rosario and the JMM who fought Pac the second and third time (he lost two razor thin decisions that were disputed by many). Speed bothered both of these fighters the most, evidenced by Chavez's fights vs. Taylor, Whitaker, and Oscar, and JMM's fights with Norwood, Pac, and Floyd. Neither of these fighters outspeeds the other, and I don't see either stopping the other (Chavez was a bull and JMM wasn't stopped by a prime Manny or Floyd), so I see a war with each trying to exert their will on the other. I can see a case for either, but I honestly don't see either guy being eaten alive by the other.

And marquez got jobbed. They scored trips for norwood, etc. My money would be on marquez when Nacho and he gear up for an important fight. Gotta love a fighter that just gets better after you knock him on his a$$ instead of losing steam like most fighters.

[Master]

JMM against Manny Pac in their first fight was his best performance and he showed his heart. After that horrible first round he was clinical against Manny.