Where have all the submission artists gone?

[VictorCharlie]

Anyone else notice the dissapearing of submission artists in UFC and Pride. I know all of the fighters train in BJJ and submissions, but it seems that these days its more how to defend than to use. Most of the top fighters are strikers or ground and pound. Even some of the top sambo and BJJ guys choose to stand up and strike now. Nick Diaz is supposed to be an awesome BJJ expert but he rarely seems to work it into his fights. Arlovski is supposed to be one the best Sambo practioners in the world, but outside of the ankle lock on sylvia I've never seen him submit anyone. Is it just me or is MMA becoming more of a striker dominated sport?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

good point. I've noticed it to but not given a thought to why

[Heavy D]

It's the natural evolution of MMA...it just fluctuates back and forth between striking, and submissions. A big part of the problem is that now everyone knows how to defend the submissions, leaving GnP as a much easier option on the ground that going for a kimura or armbar. Eventually, another Royce Gracie will come along, and force MMAers to rethink their ground game.

[raleights]

Heavy D is right about the evolution of mma, and how strikers are wisening up on how to defend grappling. But I really don't see another Royce Gracie coming along and cleaning up all the strikers. MMA is night and day compared to how it used to be, and the Gracies are not benefiting from it at all. If you ever ask yourself hmmm, why did Rickson Gracie only have 2 fights in pride? Cause he has the greatest padded record of all, and wanted to keep it intact. Don't get me wrong they're great at what they do, but the only thing the Gracies take serious is jujitsu, not mixed martial arts - and for that they need to be castrated.

400-0 damn Rickson was a puuuuuuussy

[VictorCharlie]

other than noguiera I can't think of a single top MMA fighter who is known for being a submission expert and actually uses it

[Heavy D]

I dont mean an actual Gracie. But someday, someone is going to find some way to use submissions more effectively, or is so capable of neutralizing strikes, that people will start thinking about submissions more again. It seems very unlikely at the moment (in fact, it seems more likely that strikers will take over so completely, that people will get soft with their submission work, and a good submission artist will come along)

[cringer]

ufc is nothing but strikers now, they even have that rule, when they are on the ground too long they have to get up. I think they do that for ppl that watch ufc cause the average person would wanna a see a slug fest and watch someone get knocked out instead of watching a fight that is on the ground and ends with a submission.

[Von Milash]

if the fight aint goin' nowhere they stand them up in pride, too, do they not?

[cringer]

idk I see it happen all the time in ufc

[VictorCharlie]

I see it in UFC but it seems to me to rare. There are alot of fighters that are known for BJJ/sambo and submissions but seem to prefer to keep the fights standing up.