Juan Diaz P4P huh?Dear me....

[El Gamo]

" Juan Diaz.... Wins over Freitas and Julio Diaz don't make you P4P. Cotto had to beat Judah,Mosley,and 3 unbeaten future world champs(Torres,Paulie and QUintana) to get into P4P lists. Diaz is nowhere near that."

Posted this yesterday in the P4P thread. Some of us were rather premature in making Diaz a P4P. Listen to El Gamo next time. I asked why and no-one gave a response. I feel fully indicated now.

[:::PSL:::]

He is off my list now. I guess he's been doing a lot more school work than boxing practice.

There was one moment in that fight that reminded me of Victor Borgus against Darch. JD was taking too much head punishment in mid and late rounds.

[Addicted to_boxing]

He is off my list now. I guess he's been doing a lot more school work than boxing practice.

There was one moment in that fight that reminded me of Victor Borgus against Darch. JD was taking too much head punishment in mid and late rounds.

Also looks like he packs big lunches ..........

[RozzySean]

I wasn't shocked by this. I said that Juan Diaz would get exposed soon and that Nate had a chance to do it. I was suprised by the SD. It should have been UD. We have seen lots of stupid judges this weekend. At the least the Campbell still got the W.

[Violent Demise]

I agree 100%. I never liked Juan Diaz. I can't believe people had him on there p4p list

[El Gamo]

I agree 100%. I never liked Juan Diaz. I can't believe people had him on there p4p list

Dam right my man. Listen,Diaz is exciting,has huge potential but for people to say he was P4P after 2 decent wins was absurd in the least. Reminds me of when people had Vic Darchinyan on their P4P lists and when asked for a reasonh he's unbeaten and exciting.

I think the promotional disputes,constantly pulling out of fights and studying all got to Diaz. He can still be successful but he needs to set his priorities straight,you can't be a world class boxer and a top student both at the same time.Good fighter?Yes. P4p?absolutely not.

[The Rookie Fan]

Well hind sight is 20/20 and I'm sure alot of people will get on this thread and say I knew it or I told you so but I stand by my decision of puting him on the list. I think I had him 10th IIRC.

He didn't only have 2 good fights it's just that he was not well known before that. He had I think like 7 or 8 title defenses and three World Titles. He had more reason to be there than guys like Pavlik for example which was on many people's list. Yes Pavlik has had good wins but he has yet to defend his title once. Give the man some time.

Baby Bull don't have the power to catch many people's attention but he is still a good fighter.

To be honest I am shocked that he lost. Have not seen the fight yet but from what I read, it seems that the cut on his eye might've affected him. Am I right on this?

[El Gamo]

Hind sight is used by many but I think I used it appropriately here. Diaz was on lists when Calderon wasn't?That was a common occurence.I've known of Diaz,nothing to do with that,facts are facts:his 2 biggest wins are Julio Diaz and Freitas. That's not P4P top 10.He was top 15-20,no way top 10.

And with regards to Kelly,KTFO Panter and Zertuche were equal to Freitas and Julio Diaz wins,2 wins over JT elevated him beyond that.

[Kev]

Hind sight is used by many but I think I used it appropriately here. Diaz was on lists when Calderon wasn't?That was a common occurence.I've known of Diaz,nothing to do with that,facts are facts:his 2 biggest wins are Julio Diaz and Freitas. That's not P4P top 10.He was top 15-20,no way top 10.

And with regards to Kelly,KTFO Panter and Zertuche were equal to Freitas and Julio Diaz wins,2 wins over JT elevated him beyond that.

Seriously Gamo that is just a moronic statement. How can forcing one of the worlds greatest lightweights of the last decade to quit on his stool and then forcing another reigning world champ to quit on his stool also be only equal to Pavlik beating two fighters who have never held titles and in the case of Zertuche a fighter who wasn't even in the top 10?

Diaz was borderline p4p top 10 before the Campbell fight.

He got beat up badly by Campbell but he showed heart in going the distance.

You yourself have Calderon and Pavlik in your own p4p lists yet Pavlik could with a different referee to Steve Smoger in his first fight with Taylor have been just another hyped challenger, and there are some people who argued that Cazares beat Ivan Calderon.

I certainly think Diaz was top 10,11,12,13 any spot would have been ok with me as you could make cases for several fighters.

Campbell fought an inspired fight.

[ICB]

" Juan Diaz.... Wins over Freitas and Julio Diaz don't make you P4P. Cotto had to beat Judah,Mosley,and 3 unbeaten future world champs(Torres,Paulie and QUintana) to get into P4P lists. Diaz is nowhere near that."

Posted this yesterday in the P4P thread. Some of us were rather premature in making Diaz a P4P. Listen to El Gamo next time. I asked why and no-one gave a response. I feel fully indicated now.

I had Juan Diaz in my P4P list and i don't see there was anything wrong with it, Acelino Freitas, Julio Diaz, were very good wins and IMO Diaz rightfully deserved to be in the top 10 P4P. Obviously he is out of my P4P list now but im not writing him off i think he will beat Campbell in a rematch and get back to dominating Lightweight division, not to make excuses but i think the head butt early on that caused the cut was a big disadvantage for Diaz, he had never dealt with anything like that before but he passed with flying colors and was able to last the distance. I think it was a good learning experience for Diaz and he will comeback stronger than ever from this loss you mark my words.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Ice, it wasn't a headbutt that caused the cut, it was a punch

[Macho]

Juan Diaz i want to say that he is a real good boxer but need more to be in that clasification.........

[Wayne]

Ice, it wasn't a headbutt that caused the cut, it was a punch

Actually, it was a headbutt. It was opened up even further by a punch. Watch the 2nd round again and you'll see Campbell's head come rocketing into Diaz's.

And I might still put Diaz in my p4p list. I'm not so quick to write him off on the basis of one fight. I think if he has a rematch clause he should exercise it and he'll take his belt back.

Did you throw Shane Mosley off you p4p list after he lost to Forrest? How about when RJJ got DQ'd against Montell Griffin?

Shame on anyone who was so quick to throw him over. Diaz had 1 of 2 things going wrong for him Saturday night. His buzzsaw style was effectively blunted against a slick fighter who can take a punch and he wasn't Nate Campbell. Let's face it, Campbell is pretty much a back-to-the-wall kind of fighter. At 36 he's pretty much at the ass end of his career considering the division he's in, he's been to the top and failed twice before and he couldn't get any farther away from home than Diaz's mother country. Did you hear the ring music Campbell in with? Damn right he knew he had to seize the moment or it was OVER. Campbell trained like his life depended on it and poured everything he had in him on the canvas. Diaz is more than a decade younger than Campbell, had already been a champ for a while and, his own fault, has other things to fall back on. Campbell was pretty much in fight-or-die mode and Diaz had no reason to think that way.

And the cut he gave Diaz didn't hurt, either.

Notice how different the tone of the fight was after that. Diaz has never fought that tired-looking before. And before anyone begins to question his heart remember how Shane Mosley pretty much broke down after he got cut from a head butt in the Forrest fight? He'd never been cut like that before and I'd bet if it happened in another fight he'd be better prepared to deal with it. And his corner would come with actual coagulant instead of that Visine crap.

I say Diaz exercises a rematch clause immediately and you will see a totally different fight. Campbell has made it to the mountaintop and that razor's edge in him is dulled somewhat. Diaz will have to commit to boxing in a way he hadn't for Saturday night and will be truer to form. For a while he was showing progressive improvement in his defense and he showed none of that against Campbell, Diaz (largely because his offense was his defense) & Freitas.

I knew this kid was something special when I saw what he did against Cotto.

He needs to sit mother, father & trainer down and explain to them that law school doesn't pay the bills, but boxing makes ends meet several times over. He needs--and this is the scary part because the structure may be part of his success--to move out on his own. Law school isn't going away and he can quit boxing anytime. But trying to do both may be too much weight for him to carry.

[El Gamo]

You have got to be kidding.....
Diaz P4P better then Mijares and Marquez.
I can see him above Kess, Hatton.
I even have a tough time typing that he's P4P better then Pavlik.

Exactly. I can't believe these bandwagon jumpers. A guy has an 0,a few titles and all of a sudden,he's P4P.It's rather embaressing.


Majesty wrote:Cotto got on the p4p off of Shane Mosley's "name" but the names you mentioned when Cotto fought them weren't considered to be a big threat at all."

To be honest,I stopped reading after that. I've seen MANY knowledgeable boxing writers and members here at Saddo's and other forums say Cotto would lose to Paulie,Quintana,Mosley etc. So your statement goes out of the window.

Bilbo wrote: So my question to Gamo is apart from your superb intuition what led you to deduce he didn't deserve p4p status?

9 straight title defenses, holding three of the 4 title belts and still only 24 IS p4p status.

What makes ma laugh though as if that you will place unproven stars like Christian Mijares who has one single win over a name opponent above him and yet be convinced you were right in your assessment."


Riiiiiiight.....so...show me 1,ONE,list where I have written Mijares ABOVE Diaz in the top 10. go ahead. You won't find one,you know why? Because I HAVENT. What makes your assessment even more embaressing is Mijares has as many or almost as many good wins as Diaz:

Jose Navarro
Arce
Kawashima in his backyard TWICE.
Munoz next in a unification.

So stop downplaying Mijares when you have not obviously not seen/dont
know about him.


Oh and Calderon had something like 12 title defences and didn't lose,moved and beat the NUMBER1 guy in that division. Seriously folks,keep it real. Stop making yourselves look foolish. You jumped on the bandwagon,the bandwagon was derailed,stop clutching at straws writing essays to make yourself feel better. Diaz was a very good fighter,who was absolutely not top10 P4P and the Camblee fight proved it. A fight he should have won and he lost.On the other hand,you have guys like Calderon who get shafted because fans dont' know anything about them.Next time,try some research.

[Julius Rain]

im with gamo.

diaz like you guys said is still young only 24, he has time to really improve but i never counted him as top ten p4p. the belt doesn't mean much, he never really dominated the whole fight he just out lasted guys. maybe cause of his age being the younger fighter. Now that campbell has expose his one demensional way, look at how not p4p he really is.

To me it doesn't even matter how many titles or how many good wins you have. As long as you show how good you are. Now look at ivan and mijares, they don't have as much hype but if we were to put ivan or mijares against juan if they were the say weight. I'd go for both ivan and mijares to take juan to school and get beaten far worst then how campbell beat juan.

From now on though, IMO juan will just be like rocky juarez, he won't be gun shy but won't really be elite due to lack of game plan b or c.