Those who practice Wing Chun King Fu know all about the incredible strength and power that the system can generate in the human body. I find out this and rewrite on my blog. You can see more .
Those who practice Wing Chun King Fu know all about the incredible strength and power that the system can generate in the human body. I find out this and rewrite on my blog. You can see more .
actually, it's kind of garbage.... only uselful against other wing chun guys.
Wow. That seems an awfully quick dismissal...so I suppose you've personally witnessed every practitioner of Wing Chun, gauged the usefulness of each against every other practitioner of every other combat form? I find that hard to believe.
And besides - the original poster never even mentioned anything about the usefulness of the art, just the strength and power Wing Chun can generate in the human body. Why impose your definition?
I suppose you could reply by extolling the practicality of arts like Muay Thai, Krav Magda, wrestling, BJJ, etc. That's fine - those are all outstanding disciplines, with many outstanding practitioners. But I find blanket statements such as "actually, it's kind of garbage" to be insulting, and, quite frankly, exceedingly ignorant.
As a stand alone practice I'm sure Wing Chun has some great attributes, but in reference to MMA, since this is a MMA forum, I have to agree with Von....Garbage....furthermore this thread smells of a ploy at some advertisement...nothing more nothing less
Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson
blah blah balh whatever. Ever notice that the ONLY time arts such as kung fu and aikido work is in a demonstration. They're pretty much outdated and useless. I just don't understand why people see them as so beneficial because they date back thousands of years. Have we not learned anything in the meantime? Was engineering and medicine more advanced than it is now? No. The triangle aint even all that strong. When the last time you saw a triangular bridge?
Let me guess - the only time you've seen kung fu or aikido is at a demonstration. Or maybe an instructional video? Or maybe a high school kid who claims to be a master?
How many modern arts can trace roots directly back to these useless forms?
And as for the bridge comment - first, what? And second, the triangle is an common component of basic bridge design. There are several bridges nearby with triangular braces. They're everywhere...
Bridge Basics - A Spotter's Guide to Bridge Design
I guess you pay as much attention to the foundation of bridges as you do to the foundation of modern martial arts.
Not gonna lie, I'm with Collins on the bridge thing...triangles are the strongest reasonable shape we can make. Suspension bridges can be a bit complicated and expensive. Triangles are where it's at. Everything with braces tend to be made of triangles (angles can't change, etc.)
And throwing aside the always applicable axiom of "Practitioner/Trainer > Art", WC is pretty much crap. It's definately better than nothing, but any martial art that I can never use except that one time I need it isn't very good in my book. Boxing is great because to train boxing, you box. Wing Chun, from my understanding of it, appeals to people because of its "lethal" techniques (crushing trachaea, gouging eyes, etc.) that you can never practice full strength, moreso than its general foundation and application (keyword being "appeals," not necessarily what its strongest point are). Well, That and the whole bullshit Bruce Lee story his wife has spun.
The footwork, the techniques and the discipline will help you a lot, but if I was gonna pick an art, I'd suggest something more practical.
Boxing is like a handjob, and MMA is like a hot sweaty orgy with 5 chicks. I could never say no to a handjob, but which would you rather have?
This is a pretty old topic, however, I like to bring it back up. Ive been practicing Wing Chun for about 3 month now along with it I took a few classes of karate and boxing, even though Im not that serious of a practioner there are alot of differences in striking styles and concepts I like to bring up.
First the concept. Wing Chun is based on efficient fighting, using the smallest and fastest movement which genereate the most power in order to defend from attacks and attack your opponent. Alot of the Kung Fu usually seen are very flashy using big flashy movements easily dodged if fighting against a actual person. For instance in Aikido there are basic stuff, but when it gets into the more advance things it becomes really doubtful that you will actually be able to use it in combat. Wing Chun is different, all moves made are either to trap, disable, defend or attack your opponent in the simplest way possible, as Yip man said (the son of the master of wing chun) real kungfu is not flashy.
Second, the concepts are backed by physics and experiments. were they have tested the wing chun punch against the boxing regular punch. The boxing punch uses the shoulder muscle which is about 3 times weaker then the tricept. Along with the step in and momentum you get from the boxing punch it does generate more force, the thing is you can get probably 3-5 punches in with the wing chun punch of a good amount of force by the time you get a boxing punch. making the amount of power generated much higher. This is why in some mma leagues the wing chun punch is limited to 2 in a row. And if you research this you will see that most fighting experts would agree that the wing chun punch is the most effective hand to hand combat punch.
Third, fighting concepts. When teaching fighting in things like kickboxing and boxing they teach to back and analyse the situation. Wing chun is different, using training techinques such as sticking hands it teaches muscle memory, like when a basketball player shoots, he doesnt think about it he just shoots his body memorizes how to do it. This makes defending and attacking alot more effective. Of course sticking hands would not actually happen in real life but it does have practical uses when fighting, you just have to use the concept of it in a fight.
Wing chun is a fighting style that is direct and practical. It teaches a no nonsense way of taking down your opponent as quickly and efficiently as possible, no flashy kicks or takedown that you wouldnt actually use in real life. It teaches how to destroy your opponent as quickly as possible. The reason why it is not well represented in MMA leagues is because many practitioners complained that the rules disallowed many of the favorite wing chun techniques.
Wing Tsun vs. Street Fighter (Real Fight!) | Kung Fu Street Fighting | Kung Fu Fighting Video Blog
guy uses wing chun to take down a bigger stronger guy, real fight, in the streets, rare footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gFbUc2-d8
human weapon video on wing chun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0FFREzcg
guy doing wing chun vs guy doing kickboxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQTBArJYRVE
guy with good wing chun technique.
dismissing Wing Chun because it is a type of kung fu is stupid, it depends alot on the practitioner yes, but it is a effective combat system as well as a self defence system.
Good post, I'll watch the videos a bit later (just in case they go against or address anything I say.)
My biggest beef with what you said though is:
Boxing doesn't teach to sit back and analyse, per se. The analyzing should happen as you fight (notice as he throws a punch, he exposes blah blah, so hit that next time he tries, or when he blocks my jab, his gut is wide open, so hit that next time). It's more about noticing what happens as you fight and adapt to that, don't just sit there with the same game plan.Third, fighting concepts. When teaching fighting in things like kickboxing and boxing they teach to back and analyse the situation. Wing chun is different, using training techinques such as sticking hands it teaches muscle memory, like when a basketball player shoots, he doesnt think about it he just shoots his body memorizes how to do it. This makes defending and attacking alot more effective. Of course sticking hands would not actually happen in real life but it does have practical uses when fighting, you just have to use the concept of it in a fight.
And throwing hundreds of jabs a day training is a bit more effective for muscle memory, I'd imagine. How many boxers get knocked out and fall flat out, only to raise their hands to the fighting position? Hell, some people even throw punches when completely out. It's because the brain shuts down and the muscles do what they know. You shouldn't THINK about slipping a punch, it should happen because your body knows what to do. If you think about something in boxing, it's already too late to do it.
Also, I thought the excluded Wing Chun strikes in MMA were the throat strikes, small digit manipulations and gouges? Never heard of any league only allowing you to "Wing Chun punch" twice in a row, either.
Boxing is like a handjob, and MMA is like a hot sweaty orgy with 5 chicks. I could never say no to a handjob, but which would you rather have?
Alright...watched the videos.
The "real" fight is clearly either anything but, or the big dude isn't all there upstairs. No self respecting person would fight like that (hands not just down, but down and out, like he's powering up DBZ style, only to throw the worst punch I've probably ever seen.)
The Wing Chun vs Kickboxer wasn't bad, but that looks like a case of a better fighter against a worse fighter, not anything art vs art related. I could have destroyed that kick boxer :P It did show, however, some practical application of WC, which is nice.
Third video is all demonstration stuff, and I never take any of that seriously. If someone was gonna throw something at me half speed with my prior knowledge, I'll counter with a "boxing" punch in just as effective a manner as he showed.
Boxing is like a handjob, and MMA is like a hot sweaty orgy with 5 chicks. I could never say no to a handjob, but which would you rather have?
The first video the smaller guy was definitly wing chun, if you have taken any wing chun classes you can recognize the style immediatly, the squared stance, hands down with a relaxed fist or open hand, the first kick to keep the guy back (a kick that wing chun users are taught), then especially the chain punch, he uses, along with the relentless elbows, after he starts his attack he makes no attempt to back off, then again with the stomping (destroy your opponent). Of course, the big guy definitly isnt a trained fighter (probably picking fights thinking "Im bigger and stronger") but it does show that Wing chun can be a very practical self defence style.
Ya in the second video the wing chun guy does seem to dominate alot, which isn't something that should happen at equal levels of different styles. I beleive it depends on skill level in the art that you are learning, which is why I dont believe that wing chun suks as a striking style and that it can be very effective in the streets and in actual mma matches, just need to wait for a guy that can actually do it properly, since wing chun doesnt have a history of "organized fighting."
Third video was just a bit of the concepts taught by wing chun, it wasnt really meant to show wing chun as this awesome martial arts, but educate on how wing chun people do things. Also, do you see the part where he is doing sticking hands blind folded on the core trainer at his feet? In sticking hands you push against the opponent even though it doesnt really show it at that part, to be able to balance yourself, prevent yourself from being pushed, and push back with ease, is concept that is taught regularly in wing chun. Im a pretty big guy myself, muscular wise stronger and heavier then probably 95% of the student in my class, however, some of the more advance student and my teacher are still able to push me back with ease, control my hands even though I am trying hard to stop them.
Last edited by hanlon; 02-15-2009 at 02:11 PM.
I know about sticky hands, and I don't think it's a bad exercise at all...I find it fun, in fact. It helps in many ways, from reaction time to your ability to feel and counter your opponent. However, I still don't think it's a substitute for the sparring regime boxing or MMA training can throw at you. I personally tend to learn quicker when the penalty for failure to do so is a bit more serious.
Boxing is like a handjob, and MMA is like a hot sweaty orgy with 5 chicks. I could never say no to a handjob, but which would you rather have?
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