Is Nonito Donaire really the 6th best boxer in the world??

[JazMerkin]

Just was looking at the Pound For Pound rankings on The Ring & saw that Donaire is #6

The Ring Pound For Pound Ratings

I mean seriously, he's a good fighter, but he's only got one worthy name on there in Darchinyan & even he isn't that good.

The problem I have with this is however you look at it, there are plenty of guys who should be above him.

If it's on resume, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Chris John, both Klitschkos & Arthur Abraham all trump him.

If it's on talent Hasegawa, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Wlad Klitschko, Abraham, Kessler, Calderon, Caballero & Roman Gonzalez are all better.

Can you really have this high because people thought Vic was p4p at one point & he beat him?

I mean he's good, probably Top 20, but no way is he the 6th best fighter in the world.

[OumaFan]

OK gonna have to ban Bilbo from this thread

The more talented parts obviously more subjective, I definitely wouldn't put Caballero above him in that category and I think Caballero at 8 is an all time WTF moment. And this is coming from somebody who kind of championed Caballero for a while when he was unknown or underrated. He is NOT one of the ten best fighters in the world IMO, no way. I think Donaire could be but his resume doesn't match up yet.

[JazMerkin]

OK gonna have to ban Bilbo from this thread

The more talented parts obviously more subjective, I definitely wouldn't put Caballero above him in that category and I think Caballero at 8 is an all time WTF moment. And this is coming from somebody who kind of championed Caballero for a while when he was unknown or underrated. He is NOT one of the ten best fighters in the world IMO, no way. I think Donaire could be but his resume doesn't match up yet.

Right now I'd say Caballero is the more talented fighter. Still I agree he's not Top 10 p4p.

I don't Donaire has the potential to be, but you can't have people in there off potential.

Anyway you can't ban Bilbo, think of his delight when he finally sees we agree on something, although no doubt he will take it too far & start ranting about midgets getting benefits in the p4p rankings

[ElTerribleMorales]

OK gonna have to ban Bilbo from this thread

The more talented parts obviously more subjective, I definitely wouldn't put Caballero above him in that category and I think Caballero at 8 is an all time WTF moment. And this is coming from somebody who kind of championed Caballero for a while when he was unknown or underrated. He is NOT one of the ten best fighters in the world IMO, no way. I think Donaire could be but his resume doesn't match up yet.

Right now I'd say Caballero is the more talented fighter. Still I agree he's not Top 10 p4p.

I don't Donaire has the potential to be, but you can't have people in there off potential.

Anyway you can't ban Bilbo, think of his delight when he finally sees we agree on something, although no doubt he will take it too far & start ranting about midgets getting benefits in the p4p rankings

IMO neither Donaire, Juanma Lopez, Gamboa, or Caballero have done enough to be p4p, and with that said Caballero's done the most out of the bunch

[Taeth]

Donaire is a really good fighter, and people need to stop caring about what someone has done and just analyze how good somebody is. I knew Floyd was better than Bernard Hopkins before he got the p4p title just because of how he fought and how good he was. That's why when there are two prospects we just know who is likely to be better than who, and thats what the p4p rankings are all about.

[CFH]

Donaire is a really good fighter, and people need to stop caring about what someone has done and just analyze how good somebody is. I knew Floyd was better than Bernard Hopkins before he got the p4p title just because of how he fought and how good he was. That's why when there are two prospects we just know who is likely to be better than who, and thats what the p4p rankings are all about.

That's an incredibly subjective way to categorize a fighter. I think skills should weight into P4P rankings, but more so I think a fighters record and consistency should be what matter most. Either way, P4P lists are useless in my opinion, far too subjective.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Donaire is a really good fighter, and people need to stop caring about what someone has done and just analyze how good somebody is. I knew Floyd was better than Bernard Hopkins before he got the p4p title just because of how he fought and how good he was. That's why when there are two prospects we just know who is likely to be better than who, and thats what the p4p rankings are all about.

when it comes to skills, Judah, Taylor, and hell even David Reid, were all great, had awesome potential, did either ever fully live up to it, no, meaning they weren't "p4p material" thats why you don't just base it on skill alone, you can have all the skill in the world, if you don't apply it against equal quality opponents you haven't proven shit

[hfahrenheit]

Just was looking at the Pound For Pound rankings on The Ring & saw that Donaire is #6

The Ring Pound For Pound Ratings

I mean seriously, he's a good fighter, but he's only got one worthy name on there in Darchinyan & even he isn't that good.

The problem I have with this is however you look at it, there are plenty of guys who should be above him.

If it's on resume, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Chris John, both Klitschkos & Arthur Abraham all trump him.

If it's on talent Hasegawa, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Wlad Klitschko, Abraham, Kessler, Calderon, Caballero & Roman Gonzalez are all better.

Can you really have this high because people thought Vic was p4p at one point & he beat him?

I mean he's good, probably Top 20, but no way is he the 6th best fighter in the world.

No, and Paul Williams shouldn't be in the top ten either.

[Kev]

Just was looking at the Pound For Pound rankings on The Ring & saw that Donaire is #6

The Ring Pound For Pound Ratings

I mean seriously, he's a good fighter, but he's only got one worthy name on there in Darchinyan & even he isn't that good.

The problem I have with this is however you look at it, there are plenty of guys who should be above him.

If it's on resume, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Chris John, both Klitschkos & Arthur Abraham all trump him.

If it's on talent Hasegawa, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Wlad Klitschko, Abraham, Kessler, Calderon, Caballero & Roman Gonzalez are all better.

Can you really have this high because people thought Vic was p4p at one point & he beat him?

I mean he's good, probably Top 20, but no way is he the 6th best fighter in the world.

No, and Paul Williams shouldn't be in the top ten either.

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

[hfahrenheit]

Just was looking at the Pound For Pound rankings on The Ring & saw that Donaire is #6

The Ring Pound For Pound Ratings

I mean seriously, he's a good fighter, but he's only got one worthy name on there in Darchinyan & even he isn't that good.

The problem I have with this is however you look at it, there are plenty of guys who should be above him.

If it's on resume, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Chris John, both Klitschkos & Arthur Abraham all trump him.

If it's on talent Hasegawa, Cotto, Dawson, Williams, Wlad Klitschko, Abraham, Kessler, Calderon, Caballero & Roman Gonzalez are all better.

Can you really have this high because people thought Vic was p4p at one point & he beat him?

I mean he's good, probably Top 20, but no way is he the 6th best fighter in the world.

No, and Paul Williams shouldn't be in the top ten either.

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

Yep, Winky sure was at the top of the boxing World when he fought Williams...

And Margarito, that fight happened two and half years ago... why shouldn't that be include in a current p4p ranking, it's a perfect barometer for how a fighter's doing CURRENTLY.

And Freddie Roach is right too--Amir Khan is the 10 best fighter in the World.

No sense in arguing any of that.

[ElTerribleMorales]

No, and Paul Williams shouldn't be in the top ten either.

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

Yep, Winky sure was at the top of the boxing World when he fought Williams...

And Margarito, that fight happened two and half years ago... why shouldn't that be include in a current p4p ranking, it's a perfect barometer for how a fighter's doing CURRENTLY.

And Freddie Roach is right too--Amir Khan is the 10 best fighter in the World.

No sense in arguing any of that.

in Williams' defense he was set to fight Pavlik, but Kelly pussied out, and well now he's fighting Martinez which is still a top opponent and a tough fight, it's a bigger risk than anything Donaire has taken

[hfahrenheit]

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

Yep, Winky sure was at the top of the boxing World when he fought Williams...

And Margarito, that fight happened two and half years ago... why shouldn't that be include in a current p4p ranking, it's a perfect barometer for how a fighter's doing CURRENTLY.

And Freddie Roach is right too--Amir Khan is the 10th best fighter in the World.

No sense in arguing any of that.

in Williams' defense he was set to fight Pavlik, but Kelly pussied out, and well now he's fighting Martinez which is still a top opponent and a tough fight, it's a bigger risk than anything Donaire has taken

Just for clarity, I happen to think Williams is a good boxer.

BUT, just because people are ducking you, doesn't mean you deserve a p4p ranking. You still have to go win those fights--despite any circumstance, you cannot be awarded status biased on hyperbole or conjecture.

[Kev]

No, and Paul Williams shouldn't be in the top ten either.

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

Yep, Winky sure was at the top of the boxing World when he fought Williams...

And Margarito, that fight happened two and half years ago... why shouldn't that be include in a current p4p ranking, it's a perfect barometer for how a fighter's doing CURRENTLY.

And Freddie Roach is right too--Amir Khan is the 10 best fighter in the World.

No sense in arguing any of that.

Hmm ok then so let's use YOUR logic to assess the rest of the p4p guys.

How many fights has Floyd won in the past 2 years? How many fighters has he fought in his own weight class in that time?

What about B Hop, I think he's 1-1 in that time?

Cotto? He's gone 2-1 with many thinking he should be 1-2.

I guess JM Marquez should be dropped from the list altogether as his last fight he lost every single round right?

Williams is easily one of the most significant fighters in boxing today, a menace from 147-160. He's been trying to get the big fights, Pavlik pulled out now he's going after Martinez, this guy brings the fans what they want and is actually trying to unify divisions.

Compare that with Floyd, two years off, and only fights guys two weight classes below him.

B Hop, one fight ever couple years, no interest in unifying any divisions, just wants handpicked fights for money.

Cotto, hasn't won a significant fight in a couple years.

Caballero, he's done more than Williams, really?

Donaire? Ok I'll give you him, his win over Darchinyan was immense, no doubting his pedigree.


By the way I'm not slating any of the fighters above, I think (Donaire aside) they all deserve p4p status, but Williams has proven himself repeatedly and absolutely deserves to be there.

Let me ask you, how many other current fighters are there who won weight classes in two weight divisions, then moved up to a third and beat one of the best in that division of the best decade?

Of those fighters how many arn't p4p?

[hfahrenheit]

How is Williams not p4p 10?

He's a two weight, three time world champ and has wins over two former p4p top 10 guys in Margarito and Winky (actually Winky was top 5 not too long ago).

How many fighters have done more than him? Dawson should be top 10 too.

Yep, Winky sure was at the top of the boxing World when he fought Williams...

And Margarito, that fight happened two and half years ago... why shouldn't that be include in a current p4p ranking, it's a perfect barometer for how a fighter's doing CURRENTLY.

And Freddie Roach is right too--Amir Khan is the 10 best fighter in the World.

No sense in arguing any of that.

Hmm ok then so let's use YOUR logic to assess the rest of the p4p guys.

How many fights has Floyd won in the past 2 years? How many fighters has he fought in his own weight class in that time?

What about B Hop, I think he's 1-1 in that time?

Cotto? He's gone 2-1 with many thinking he should be 1-2.

I guess JM Marquez should be dropped from the list altogether as his last fight he lost every single round right?

Williams is easily one of the most significant fighters in boxing today, a menace from 147-160. He's been trying to get the big fights, Pavlik pulled out now he's going after Martinez, this guy brings the fans what they want and is actually trying to unify divisions.

Compare that with Floyd, two years off, and only fights guys two weight classes below him.

B Hop, one fight ever couple years, no interest in unifying any divisions, just wants handpicked fights for money.

Cotto, hasn't won a significant fight in a couple years.

Caballero, he's done more than Williams, really?

Donaire? Ok I'll give you him, his win over Darchinyan was immense, no doubting his pedigree.


By the way I'm not slating any of the fighters above, I think (Donaire aside) they all deserve p4p status, but Williams has proven himself repeatedly and absolutely deserves to be there.

Let me ask you, how many other current fighters are there who won weight classes in two weight divisions, then moved up to a third and beat one of the best in that division of the best decade?

Of those fighters how many arn't p4p?

Yes, I think the p4p ranking could stand to be more merit based.

And you must be Winky's #1 fan, because you're giving that fight entirely too much emphasis. You're acting as if Winky wasn't a has been coming into that fight, and he was. And, Winky was one of the best 154lbs fighters of the decade--he fought Williams at 160 were he did little more than head butt Jermain Taylor.

Paul Williams does not deserve a p4p ranking based of wins over winky, phillps, knolle, quintana, and margarito. None of those guys were anywhere near the p4p list when he fought them.

Floyd and b-hop have much better resumes. Period. No comparison. And because you can't completely eliminate everything subjective, they deserve to be there because of their accomplishments--certainly not because of who they're currently fighting.

Cotto - the Clottey fight was more of a quality fight than Winky, Phillps, and Knolle.

Yahoo! actually has Williams as the #3 guy (above B-hop and Mosely and scores of others) which is completely fucked.

I don't agree with Nonito or Caballero either, although Caballero is a talent.

Williams is a talented guy who hasn't gotten a chance. I get that.

But I think how we differ is that I don't automatically give Williams a win over someone like Pavlik, just because it looks like Pavlik ducked him...YOU STILL HAVE TO BEAT THEM IN THE RING TO GET CREDIT FOR THE WIN.

It looks like you give him the credit anyways.

Let me ask you, how many other current fighters are there who won weight classes in two weight divisions, then moved up to a third and beat one of the best in that division of the best decade?

Just Manny Pacquiao, just not in that order.

I guess JM Marquez should be dropped from the list altogether as his last fight he lost every single round right?

If he continued to fight at 147, then yes; he should be dropped from the rankings...at 135, he's still one of the p4p best.

Williams is easily one of the most significant fighters in boxing today, a menace from 147-160. He's been trying to get the big fights, Pavlik pulled out now he's going after Martinez, this guy brings the fans what they want and is actually trying to unify divisions.

Could be. Not "is." And God I wish Mosely, Floyd, Pavlik, Abraham, somebody would fight this guy so all the "what if's" would go away.

My only point is that we should wait until after he gets one of these fights (and wins) before we give him p4p status.