America is an illegal and racist country much like Israel

[Gandalf]

I thought I would start this thread after posting a bit on my RDR thread. Basically I believe America to be an illegal state and Israel to be a state that is being newly created with the same racist motivations. Both are being founded on racist and illegitimate lines. Here are my main lines from the previosuly mentioned thread...

They wipe out those who already occupy the land and then show a complete lack of regard for the land they are taking over and then a complete lack of regard for the land they occupy the world over. It makes Americans look like the most uncivilised of people and native American Indians who lack all the bullshit science, but know full well how the earth operates, look like the most sophisticated of people. And that is quite accurate.

It's a shame the ugly was allowed to win.

And then I said this...

The game also made me upset because it brought home exactly how Israel is gradually taking over the occupied territories. You have an ethnic population who really own the land, and yet they don't because of illegal occupiers, and over time you will exclude the ethnic population, either into the sea or else anywhere else entirely.

Only America (a country responsible for genocide worse than the Nazi's) could be so close in kinship towards such a country. And then when you begin to educate yourself on notions such as 'manifest destiny', well, then it all begins to make complete sense.

It is an alignment of the corrupt academic elite, mass media and politicians who perpetuate all that is wrong in the world just for their short term gains.

Israel is making it's share of money from terror and is quite happy with the Palestine situation. And the world really does just invest in that and watch on while the Palestinians get crushed.

[Gandalf]

Now some of that is quite strong, but that is why I thought it deserved a proper thread of its own.

I was talking about a game, but my arguments relate quite well to a debate on state and abuse of power.

So discuss....

[amat]

What we did to the native Americans was shit but how come you dwell so much on America all the time? What about the British empire destroying whole cultures and shooting people off of the front of cannons in India? There is soooo much bad history and bad stuff going on now but you act as if America and Israel are the worst of the world's evils. I don't believe this even if we share a lot of the blame. Why not spend some time railing against radical terrorists from time to time.

Also when you say we're a racist country, what do you mean by that? Are you talking about our history or who we are now?

[Gandalf]

I dwell on America becuase you are creating most of the worlds misery. Right now America and Israel are responsibly for much of the world's misery. If I was around 80 years ago my motives would obviously have been different. The British would have been my targets. In fact even now they are.

You talk of 'radical terrorists'..spoken like a truly uninformed American...what radical terrorists, Amat? The ones created by years of systematic abuse? Both economic and military? How many did you kill in Iraq and for what purpose exactly? Opening a Burger King in the Green Zone? Nice! Then there is Afghanistan and what about the economic invasions in countries such as Argentina, Uruguay, Poland, China, Russia and so on.

A racist country created on unhinged christian foundations. An idea that you are superior to the dark skinned people. That was how America was founded and this is how Israel is going. Take some land and take some more, because "we are able to do so". That is racist. Nobody wants to help the dark skinned people even though it is their own land.

That is a country built on racism and that is how Israel is being built today.

[amat]

I dwell on America becuase you are creating most of the worlds misery. Right now America and Israel are responsibly for much of the world's misery. If I was around 80 years ago my motives would obviously have been different. The British would have been my targets. In fact even now they are.

You talk of 'radical terrorists'..spoken like a truly uninformed American...what radical terrorists, Amat? The ones created by years of systematic abuse? Both economic and military? How many did you kill in Iraq and for what purpose exactly? Opening a Burger King in the Green Zone? Nice! Then there is Afghanistan and what about the economic invasions in countries such as Argentina, Uruguay, Poland, China, Russia and so on.
.

It's like you have your posts picked out, you know what you want to say regardless of what the responses you get are. Uninformed American? How come you feel the need to discredit every single person you argue with? Don't you realize how petty and childish this makes you look? It's fucken ridiculous.

I know full well that America has blame for the hostilities that the middle east holds toward us. However, they should still be held accountable for blowing up open markets and destroying civilians just like we should. What would you call these people who strap explosives to themselves if they aren't radical terrorists? Do you have a better word for them?

How about some accountability on these people's behalves. What do you suppose we call the organizations I refer to as radical terrorists? Freedom fighters? What is Osama Bin Laden to you?

[El Kabong]

....what miles doesn't realize is that ENGLAND created the issues in the Middle East....FACT. There's no debating it...the United States only got involved because England and BP informed then President Eisenhower that if the Shah was not restored to power that Iran would go commie.

But all that is conveniently left out of miles' posts

[Gandalf]

I dwell on America becuase you are creating most of the worlds misery. Right now America and Israel are responsibly for much of the world's misery. If I was around 80 years ago my motives would obviously have been different. The British would have been my targets. In fact even now they are.

You talk of 'radical terrorists'..spoken like a truly uninformed American...what radical terrorists, Amat? The ones created by years of systematic abuse? Both economic and military? How many did you kill in Iraq and for what purpose exactly? Opening a Burger King in the Green Zone? Nice! Then there is Afghanistan and what about the economic invasions in countries such as Argentina, Uruguay, Poland, China, Russia and so on.
.

It's like you have your posts picked out, you know what you want to say regardless of what the responses you get are. Uninformed American? How come you feel the need to discredit every single person you argue with? Don't you realize how petty and childish this makes you look? It's fucken ridiculous.

I know full well that America has blame for the hostilities that the middle east holds toward us. However, they should still be held accountable for blowing up open markets and destroying civilians just like we should. What would you call these people who strap explosives to themselves if they aren't radical terrorists? Do you have a better word for them?

How about some accountability on these people's behalves. What do you suppose we call the organizations I refer to as radical terrorists? Freedom fighters? What is Osama Bin Laden to you?

I feel the need to discredit the vast bulk of a population that is forced to digest a god awful right wing media everyday. It's only in recent years that the US intelligentsia has started to come to terms with it own genocidal history. It still has some way to go considering all the romanticisation of the Wild West that emerged at the start of the 20th century through literature and cinema. It wasn't romantic, it was racist and genocidal. Again, I don't find that a controversial thing to say.

I regard the troops currently in Iraq as invaders and occupiers. Those who wish to liberate their country of such a force are obviously freedom fighters and those who argue their case through journals and articles are the resistence. We have no right to be there and the only people that have gained are those with sound investments in the military industrial complex, not Iraqi citizens who are forced to live in chaos and fear. We can all talk of liberation and freedom....but does the average Iraqi really have that today? Come on now. All this stealth and fire for a bunch of people finally snapping at all America had been doing to the world for the past 40 years?

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

[El Kabong]

Seriously? All this started from a discussion about a video game? Miles...either grow up or just fuck off

[Gandalf]

Seriously? All this started from a discussion about a video game? Miles...either grow up or just fuck off

I am quite grown up, Lyle. Your response shows you for what you are.

How about raising some thoughts to prove me otherwise? But no you just have to tell me to fuck off.

Lyle, you lose the argument and look like a dick...well done...

[El Kabong]

Seriously? All this started from a discussion about a video game? Miles...either grow up or just fuck off

I am quite grown up, Lyle. Your response shows you for what you are.

How about raising some thoughts to prove me otherwise? But no you just have to tell me to fuck off.

Lyle, you lose the argument and look like a dick...well done...

Miles, this ranting and raving you did started out from you playing a video game. Apparently you're such a bleeding heart you want digital reparations for the digital indians...oh I'm sorry I meant "Native Digital Peoples of the video game Red Dead Redemption"......and I'm the childish one?!?!

Miles get a fucking grip.

[Gandalf]

And I see Lyle trying to respond, but he isn't worth it. My points are very potent and I will argue them until the cows go home. Lyle is a cowboy, he knows what his country is.

[El Kabong]

And I see Lyle trying to respond, but he isn't worth it. My points are very potent and I will argue them until the cows go home. Lyle is a cowboy, he knows what his country is.

Your inane rantings are pathetic and weak. You're using current morals and values and then applying them to the founding of the United States. Their reality was nothing like ours. And for trying to force history into some sort of moral "good vs evil" linear way of thinking is childish and just plain fucking stupid.

[OumaFan]

Do you have to check out a bunch of books on how Britain fucked large portions of the world in the ass for centuries or is there just one called Britain fucked us in the ass and took everything we had?

[OumaFan]

fwiw it is a criminally under discussed issue in America (don't want to sound like I'm blaming Black people for this but the civil rights issue was such a big deal that I think its overshadowed the Native American situation which is unfortunate) but Miles' hypocrisy seems to know no bounds.

[CFH]

fwiw it is a criminally under discussed issue in America (don't want to sound like I'm blaming Black people for this but the civil rights issue was such a big deal that I think its overshadowed the Native American situation which is unfortunate) but Miles' hypocrisy seems to know no bounds.

Agreed 100%.

It's the same thing here. I admittedly only really know about the plight of Canadian First Nations people (our 'Native Canadians'), how is contemporary life for Native Americans?

Here in the north the destruction of indigenous ways of life was stated public policy (under the guise of 'assimilation') for decades and we continue to exert colonial rule over them and force them to live in 3rd world conditions...

I've heard experts on the subject make compelling arguments that Canada is at least half a century behind the States in terms of how we treat our indigenous people.