Future Hall of Famers discussion

[JazMerkin]

The recent inductions got me thinking about the criteria to get in & who we would induct of those active guys coming to the end & what some of the younger guys will have to do to get in.

I'll start with a small section of active fighters who are certainties to get in & who quite frankly I think everyone who follows boxing accepts is more than worthy of a spot.

Definites

Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquiao
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr
Juan Manuel Marquez
Evander Holyfield
Shane Mosley
James Toney
Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera

Like I said, I don't think anyone can seriously argue with any of those guys being in there.


The next section is guys coming towards the end of their careers, completely shot or still technically active, who there may be some argument over. Now there are at least a couple of these guys who I think should definitely be in there, but I'm guessing there might be some who would debate them. There's also a few who I don't think are worthy but who may have a shot. There's at least one who imo should be nowhere near it & will almost certainly never get in, but some may feel differently.

Possibles

Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Glen Johnson
Zsolt Erdei
Antonio Tarver
Mikkel Kessler
Miguel Cotto
Cory Spinks
Antonio Margarito
Ricky Hatton
Joel Casamayor
Jose Luis Castillo
Rafael Marquez
Jorge Arce
Fernando Montiel
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Ivan Calderon

So say whether you think those guys are deserving or what they have to do to deserve to be in there, although I think in most cases with the possible exceptions of Wlad & Kessler, there isn't much scope for them to improve their standing.

This last section is younger guys or guys currently at their peak, who look like they can go on for a few more years. I don't believe any of these guys have yet done enough to justify being in Canastota & many won't ever, although in some cases it may only be a few wins away.

Unlikely as of now

David Haye
Chad Dawson
Jean Pascal
Andre Ward
Carl Froch
Arthur Abraham
Kelly Pavlik
Sergio Martinez
Victor Ortiz
Tim Bradley
Amir Khan
Humberto Soto
Robert Guerrero
Yuri Gamboa
Chris John
Juan Manuel Lopez
Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Vic Darchinyan
Roman Gonzalez
Giovanni Segura

Like I said, I don't think any of these guys have done enough to be in the hall yet, but what would they have to do to be in there?

I've got my own thoughts, but I'm interested in what you guys have to say first.

[generalbulldog]

What is the criteria for getting in? I mean it's been used for years that a guy like Barry McGuigan got in and that other noteworthy fighters won't even get a sniff. I think that's the worst thing the hall of fame could have done by lowering their standards like that. And then you have Sylvester Stallone getting a nod for his observer role or whatever.

So what really is the criteria?

[JazMerkin]

What is the criteria for getting in? I mean it's been used for years that a guy like Barry McGuigan got in and that other noteworthy fighters won't even get a sniff. I think that's the worst thing the hall of fame could have done by lowering their standards like that. And then you have Sylvester Stallone getting a nod for his observer role or whatever.

So what really is the criteria?

Well, I don't think any of us really have the criteria as there's only like 240 journalists worldwide who get a vote. I was more just thinking who we consider worthy of being there.

I mean, I posted the first set as a list of guys who whatever the criteria most definitely deserve to be in there & I can see no argument why not.

[erics44]

i like the tops of your lists on the posibles and unlikelies

is this another haye wlad thread in disguise?

[JazMerkin]

i like the tops of your lists on the posibles and unlikelies

is this another haye wlad thread in disguise?

No, it's precisely because I wanted to talk about something else that I made this.

Marble,

I did think about that with Mosley (& Holyfield) regarding PEDs, but quite frankly when they've just let a convicted rapist & Kostya Tszyu in, I think that Mosley will more than warrant it. I disagree strongly with JMM being questioned. I think he's got a hell of a resume. He has one clear loss in his whole career. He's been extremely competitive and many believe twice won against an ATG. He's repeatedly taken on the best opposition he can. I would certainly consider him among the 100 best fighters in history, let alone 250.

[marbleheadmaui]

i like the tops of your lists on the posibles and unlikelies

is this another haye wlad thread in disguise?

No, it's precisely because I wanted to talk about something else that I made this.

Marble,

I did think about that with Mosley (& Holyfield) regarding PEDs, but quite frankly when they've just let a convicted rapist & Kostya Tszyu in, I think that Mosley will more than warrant it. I disagree strongly with JMM being questioned. I think he's got a hell of a resume. He has one clear loss in his whole career. He's been extremely competitive and many believe twice won against an ATG. He's repeatedly taken on the best opposition he can. I would certainly consider him among the 100 best fighters in history, let alone 250.

Rape is an outside the ring event. Irrelevant to a man's boxing accomplishments. PED's are an in-ring event.

Unless one has seen every single fight in history, I think it is irresponsible to rewrite the record book for a single guy. I mean what is the criteria for turning losses into wins exactly? The inarguable fact is JMM is 1-3-1 against fighters one might call great. I can find dozens of guys with results better than that who we'd NEVER consider putting in the HOF. How about a guy like Willie Joyce? He went 4-6 against HOFers named Armstrong, Ike Williams, Willie Pep and Chalky Wright.

Now don't get me wrong, there is an srgument for putting JMM in. But he should NOT be a lock while men like I listed aren't in.

Here's another. The Cocoa Kid. 150+ wins, 9-6-4 against HOFers and he's not in.

[marbleheadmaui]

A couple of preliminary thoughts.

1. I think Halls of Fame should be reserved for the inarguably great, great, great
2. I believe clear mistakes (McGuigan, Ingo, Norris, Mitchell, Papp, Graham) should NOT be used to justify new mistakes

Of your definites I would seriously question Shane Mosely for two reasons. First his PED usage calls his entire resume into question. 2. At the top of his resume he lost more than he won against great fighters. Should JMM REALLY be a lock? Who is his biggest win exactly? An over the hill MAB? His brother is more deserving in my view. One thing to keep in mind. Since 1875 there have been roughly 500 true champions in the sport. The HOF has about 250 fighters in it. Has JMM REALLY been one of the top 50% of all true champions in history?

Of the possibles the only guys I think who deserve serious consideration are Wlad, Wonjonkam, Iron Boy and Rafale Marquez. The others I'd rate as clear no's.

Before any of the guys I've named go in don't men like Pone Kingpetch, Donald Curry, Betulio Gonzales, Santos Laciar, Myung Wuh Yuh, Wilfredo Vasquez, Yoko Gushiken, Rafael Hererra etc have to go in? I'm not arguing these guys should go, only that their resumes are superior to the guys we are discussing here.

On the last group what do they have to do? The answer across the board is A LOT more than they have done today. None are close.

Now here's the problem. If the IBHOF mandates three indusctions a year? There is going to be some serious watering down.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I remember Missy was banging on about this a while back but IMO it's completely irrelevant. Even if the guy was Hitler, or even Hornfinger it shouldn't matter.