Do you live with debt?

[Gandalf]

It just seems to me reading all this economic doom and gloom that the misery has been stage managed by ignorant buffoons who really don't give a shit as long as they are in the clear. Governments have encouraged economic growth by urging consumption and this has led to lazy people being more and more willing to get into debt in order to satiate their desires. How many people have a mortgage? How many people bought their brand new car on credit? Who borrowed to buy their kids ridiculously priced new gadgets for christmas just to keep up with the neighbors? It's a massive encouragement to be frivolous and to fail to contemplate the future and be sensible by putting money away for a rainy day.

I was reading an article today talking about how Korean consumers typically have a debt of double their income and it just made me think 'how did it ever come to this?'. It's serious stuff and too many people seem to spend in the here and now, borrow up to their teeth and just hope to keep on muddling through. It is all wrong IMO, but I don't speak from the higher ground as I too was fiscally frivolous until my mid-20's. When did it become so wrong for normal people to try and save money? I see too many people with children and they invest everything into the child in terms of education, gadgets and clothing and it seems to me nothing more than a false investment. "I will live in debt until you grow up and then you will provide for me". Hmm, why not abstain from having children and provide for your own retirement and that way you can retire without placing a burden upon others.

It just seems to me that people have children without planning, they have no savings because they refuse to plan and ultimately we have decimated societies where the middle and lower classes have next to nothing. Now when the economic shit storm hits, where do they go then? Mind you it isn't great to be middle class and sensible either as governments are eradicating savings through inflationary policies. It's all a crock of shit to keep anyone outside the elite in difficulty, but I think it's foolish to just consume and copulate without a care in the world too.

So a mildly economic thread. Do you live with debt? I will admit that I used to, but I refuse to ever do it again. Interest rates and the difficulties of getting out of debt are just not worth it. You need to sacrifice in life and in order to stay above water you need to self regulate.

Views?

[Gandalf]

Furthermore, I hate the way when you start a thread similar old threads come up beneath. Every time I seem to have started a similar thread about a year before. How am I supposed to remember all these threads I have started? Clearly there are character patterns at work and my psycho analyst would have a field day with some of this material.

[erics44]

My debts are my house and i am £150 overdrawn in one account and about £500 in another

my wife is out of work at the minute so that why the overdrafts are creaping up a bit

[Gandalf]

A mortgage is something I can kind of understand. People do need a home to live in and rents can be expensive and you get nothing for it. But the interest over 20 odd years is a killer and you are pretty much tied to it. A mortgage is a seriously hardcore investment, you need to make sure that job is permanent and you can stay on top of things. I'm not sure I would ever want to take on that kind of debt. Extremely risky in this day and age.

[erics44]

A mortgage is something I can kind of understand. People do need a home to live in and rents can be expensive and you get nothing for it. But the interest over 20 odd years is a killer and you are pretty much tied to it. A mortgage is a seriously hardcore investment, you need to make sure that job is permanent and you can stay on top of things. I'm not sure I would ever want to take on that kind of debt. Extremely risky in this day and age.

you will always need somewhere to live tho, even if you rent you cant just decide you cant afford it anymore and stop

[Gandalf]

A mortgage is something I can kind of understand. People do need a home to live in and rents can be expensive and you get nothing for it. But the interest over 20 odd years is a killer and you are pretty much tied to it. A mortgage is a seriously hardcore investment, you need to make sure that job is permanent and you can stay on top of things. I'm not sure I would ever want to take on that kind of debt. Extremely risky in this day and age.

you will always need somewhere to live tho, even if you rent you cant just decide you cant afford it anymore and stop

True, and I think that is a valid point. Mortgage debt is sometimes a necessary thing and I can see that. It is still fairly risky though and there is no guarantee that one is going to be employed all that time. At least with rent you can find something cheaper when things go wrong. There is never any excuse for never having banked some coin though and when things are tough you always need at least a little shrapnel to tide you over. A mortgage should be viewed as a life and death struggle and in many cases it probably is at some point.

[Gandalf]

Also with these expensive tuition fees and banks lining up to fleece the new teenage consumers that debt is almost being ingrained into society. Debt is being seen as a natural state of affairs, unless you are the super rich and it shouldn't be that way. If schools can offer sex education classes, then they should also provide money management classes and counter the predatory financial institutions, but of course the state wouldn't really want to encourage that.

[0james0]

I see people's incomes daily and EVERYONE has at least one form of debt (not including mortgage).

Imagine if this country returned to the days of the late 80's where interest rates rose to 16%. All of those credit cards and loans and of course the mortgages would break everyone.

[Master]

No debt, no mortgage and no pension.

[Gandalf]

No debt, no mortgage and no pension.

I have no debt, no mortgage, but kind of have an eye on what I need for retirement. No state is going to be bailing me out and I have been aware of that for a long time now.

I save a minimum of half my income and usually more and I put that towards various things. My job provides my accomodation and I will inherit a plot of land when I am old, so I don't care about the pitfalls of a mortgage really.

I live frugally with no children and only enough luxuries to fill the time that I have available. I spend on nothing frivolous. When I decided to re educate myself it was because I had saved the money, no silly loans for me. And a sensible education in the field that I work today.

If I plan a trip overseas it is because it is planned with money that is already earnt. More people should live in this manner as it is sensible.

[Gandalf]

I see people's incomes daily and EVERYONE has at least one form of debt (not including mortgage).

Imagine if this country returned to the days of the late 80's where interest rates rose to 16%. All of those credit cards and loans and of course the mortgages would break everyone.

But it shouldn't be that way. People should live with mum until they've saved enough to move out. They should save and buy a second hand car first. They should skip university as it is a waste of time etc. If people were given a basic grounding in how to be careful with the one lifetime that they have, there would be far less need for debt, but it's against all the wishes of powerful financial corporations and government figures with vested interests.

If I knew now what I knew a decade or so ago, I would have lived a very different life financially.

[Andre]

I see people's incomes daily and EVERYONE has at least one form of debt (not including mortgage).

Imagine if this country returned to the days of the late 80's where interest rates rose to 16%. All of those credit cards and loans and of course the mortgages would break everyone.

You dont get to see the ones who dont have debt.We slip under your radar. Aside from continual debt to the tax office but thats an inescapable fact unless your a cash only dude.

[Gandalf]

I don't view tax as debt, I view that as my valid contribution to society. It is what I hope will be given to building roads, schools and assisting the poor. To me that is not debt, but a contribution based upon what I am earning at any given time.

[superheavyrhun]

I see people's incomes daily and EVERYONE has at least one form of debt (not including mortgage).

Imagine if this country returned to the days of the late 80's where interest rates rose to 16%. All of those credit cards and loans and of course the mortgages would break everyone.

Most of the credit cards etc are already on rates of way above 16%, it's just the balance transfer 0% deals and other discounts that are making them seem artificially low to some.

A one bedroom flat in my area is six times my annual income. I'll need to be promoted another two levels before I will be in a position to even get a mortgage on the most basic and downtrodden apartment in the area, and that's if I can scrape together nearly double my annual wages for a big fat deposit.

I think I'm renting for life.

[Gandalf]

I see people's incomes daily and EVERYONE has at least one form of debt (not including mortgage).

Imagine if this country returned to the days of the late 80's where interest rates rose to 16%. All of those credit cards and loans and of course the mortgages would break everyone.

Most of the credit cards etc are already on rates of way above 16%, it's just the balance transfer 0% deals and other discounts that are making them seem artificially low to some.

A one bedroom flat in my area is six times my annual income. I'll need to be promoted another two levels before I will be in a position to even get a mortgage on the most basic and downtrodden apartment in the area, and that's if I can scrape together nearly double my annual wages for a big fat deposit.

I think I'm renting for life.

The cost of buying or renting is something that really puts me off ever wanting to return back home on any permanent basis. I know for sure I would be in poverty and with debt had I never left the UK. It's a hard place to make ends meet.

My sister pays 700 pounds a month rent, it's no wonder they can never save anything. Mindblowing.