Judging a fighter's resume

[TitoFan]

It's like Alvarez gets hate for being good at a young age. The expectations placed on Alvarez are ridiculously high. And there made that high for the purpose of seeing him fail. He's already at an accelerated pace. What more muthafukkas want? He's 22 years old. He has an outstanding resume for a 22 year old. At 22 Cotto was fighting Sammy Sparkman. And he went to the muthafukkin Olympics

It was his 8th pro fight. Canelo's 8th pro fight was against some guy who was 4-5 over in Jalisco, Mexico.

This post got me to thinking... just how do you judge a fighter's resume? I know some of us have criticized Canelo's resume in the past (I've tried to stay a bit away from that argument). But really... what makes a good resume? It's not just wins and losses. That's my whole point about someone like JCC Jr., and even his father before him. You can be 100-0... but if all or the majority of your wins came against bums, and you rarely traveled outside your hometown.... is the record really that great?

I thought it was just a "Chavez" thing, with Jr. and Sr. bloating their records on inferior opposition and reaching impressive win-loss records. But could it be the "in" thing among young Mexican fighters, as well? It wasn't that way in the past, I don't think. Fighters had about 10-15 pro fights before they started moving up in competition.... but by their 20-25 fight you were kind of hoping they'd be fighting worthy opponents.

Yes... at 22 Cotto was fighting Sammy Sparkman. But it was his 8th pro fight. By the time he had 15 fights, he had fought and beaten Mexican Cesar Bazan in Las Vegas. His 20th fight was against Lovemore Ndou, and his 22nd was against Randall Bailey... all in Las Vegas. If there's any modern fighter you don't want to try to shoot holes in his resume, it's Miguel Cotto.

By contrast, Canelo first ventured outside the safety of Mexico for his 23rd fight. Before then, he had fattened up his record by fighting the same loser 3 times! Francisco Villanueva was 4-5 when he lost to Canelo for Canelo's 8th fight. Canelo liked him so much... they fought for Canelo's 18th fight (Francisco was 4-14)... and for Canelo's 20th fight (5-17). Ok... Villanueva was a bum... we get it.

Once Canelo became well known, he then fought more recognizable opposition... and that's when some of the criticism began about him fighting either undersized, over-the-hill, or otherwise unworthy opposition. That particular point is a matter of opinion, of course. But what is undeniable is the ridiculously slow pace at which some of these well known, young Mexican fighters are being brought up.

Now Canelo's 41-0, an amazing record for a 22-year old. But really... just how good is his resume?

[erics44]

judging / analysing a fighters record is very important

ill give you an example

in the build up to froch bute a lot of people had bute the favourite, he had looked very good

but when you really looked at who he had fought and at what point in their careers he had fought them

[oakleyno1]

his resume is fine generally... but not when you see people saying how he could be the one to beat mayweather etc

truth is he has come very close to a loss earlier in his career and beaten european level fighters not world level (mosely etc are very much not world class anymore when he fought them)

essentially he is doing well but is imo nothing special...YET...perhaps in a few fights time. he has done nothing of note in honestly, but thats not a problem as hes so young...but it is when you start trying to match him against someone ten levels above anyone he has ever fought

[erics44]

his resume is fine generally... but not when you see people saying how he could be the one to beat mayweather etc

truth is he has come very close to a loss earlier in his career and beaten european level fighters not world level (mosely etc are very much not world class anymore when he fought them)

essentially he is doing well but is imo nothing special...YET...perhaps in a few fights time. he has done nothing of note in honestly, but thats not a problem as hes so young...but it is when you start trying to match him against someone ten levels above anyone he has ever fought

RECORD only gays say resume

[Fenster]

If the fighter hasn't got much amateur experience, it's understandable they have a ton of learning fights before stepping up. I believe Alvarez had around a dozen amateur fights and Chavez jr none.

Cotto, like most top fighters, had over 100.

[TitoFan]

But it skews their pro record. That's why you can't just compare a 50-0 record with a 30-3 record at face value. If you have no amateur experience, and bloat your professional record with 50 bums before facing anyone of merit, why should your record be compared with the 30-3 fighter who was fighting credible opposition by his 10th fight? I think it's pretty clear cut.

[Fenster]

What serious boxing fan doesn't rate quality over quantity when judging a fighters record? If the 50-0 fighter has fought a load of bums and the 30-3 fighter is proven world-class everyone will consider the latter superior.

Considering you only mentioned Canelo and Chavez Jr in your original post I guess this is about them.

If you chop the bottom half of Canelo's record off, for a 22-year-old, at 20-0, with a bunch of former world champions and challengers on his record it's still very impressive. And Chavez Jr, as weak as his overall record is, nearly knocked out a P4P star and the lineal middleweight champ.

So even if they have bloated records, they both proved themselves at world level.