"quality" opponents Wlad "fought"

**brocktonblockbust** · 12-26-2014 01:45 PM

Ummm....hmmm. Thinking. Still thinking.

**Master** · 12-26-2014 02:50 PM

Brewster

**Max Power** · 12-26-2014 03:53 PM

A far better question is "When was the last time Wladimir Klitschko fought a bum??"

To see the last bum fight of Wladimir Klitschko, you have to cast your gaze all the way back to the year 2001, nearly 14 years and 29 opponents ago!

The opponent was Charles Shufford. who at time of bout was 17-1 (a decent opponent at the time) and 234lbs (bigger and stronger than any opponent of the 70's).

Shufford was probably more famous for playing Foreman in the movie Ali which is remarked on by commentary as being humourous considering Shufford is much larger than the real Big Geroge nayway. a sign of the times.

Stewards comments regarding Wladimir were also interesting given he was not even WK's trainer yet.

Worth a look at this bum fight of Klitschko's...

Then please compare a Klitschko era "bum" to a "bum" from the past.

MAx_Power 101:

"Bums of the Klitschko era > Top opponents of pre80's eras"

**SlimTrae** · 12-27-2014 03:21 AM

The last bum was Shufford? And it took 6 rounds to stop a bum? Well, you said it not us!

I stopped after the first round- I can’t think of any fighters I like who are tentative against the bums they fought.

So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!

Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer

Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?

Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!

Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?

And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?
He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.

David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.

Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%

Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.

Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin.

Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.

Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.

Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.
Ray Austin wasn't shit.
Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.

That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.

**IamInuit** · 12-27-2014 04:25 AM

He has no grade A beef. Not one in the bunch. The best guy he beat was Calvin Brock prior to Povetkin. He could not even get retribution over the janitors, cab drivers and part time golf pros that knocked him out. His brother did. Wlads been on his back more times then an 18th century hooker., heaven forbid that he actually fought a heavyweight with any skill that enjoyed taking chances.

If anything shows how lame this division is, its the beefed up fraudulent coddled 0's on the win/loss record of his talentless list of adversaries. Haye was a total let down even with his talent. They should have brought him to the ring in a baby carriage. Its not any great wonder how these Pulev's, Pianetas and Wachs of the world remained undefeated. If they are that vacant of any boxing ability what must the rest of the fold look like? Guys like Ron Lyle would dominate all these chronically unemployed turned boxers. Its like watching the trees in my back yard go at it.

Wlads not responsible for the supply but it is what it is. It will be a much more competitive division when Wlads gone and that's not because Wlad is so good I'm sorry to say.

**Max Power** · 12-27-2014 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by IamInuit

He has no grade A beef. Not one in the bunch. The best guy he beat was Calvin Brock prior to Povetkin. He could not even get retribution over the janitors, cab drivers and part time golf pros that knocked him out. His brother did. Wlads been on his back more times then an 18th century hooker., heaven forbid that he actually fought a heavyweight with any skill that enjoyed taking chances.

If anything shows how lame this division is, its the beefed up fraudulent coddled 0's on the win/loss record of his talentless list of adversaries. Haye was a total let down even with his talent. They should have brought him to the ring in a baby carriage. Its not any great wonder how these Pulev's, Pianetas and Wachs of the world remained undefeated. If they are that vacant of any boxing ability what must the rest of the fold look like? Guys like Ron Lyle would dominate all these chronically unemployed turned boxers. Its like watching the trees in my back yard go at it.

Wlads not responsible for the supply but it is what it is. It will be a much more competitive division when Wlads gone and that's not because Wlad is so good I'm sorry to say.

And there you have the real reason for the disrespect/bummification of the Klitshcko era folks, straight from the horses mouth!

While Wladimir is here, the era is devoid of talent, all worthless opponents who can scarcely box. But as soon as he's gone, everything will suddenly be better again. As soon as he's gone.

Fancy that ey! LOL

Sounds like a case of sour grapes if I ever heard one. As I've always said. The moves are already being put in place now to suddenly "revive" the quality of the HW division as soon as the big fella retires. Disgusting!

**SlimTrae** · 12-27-2014 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Wlads been on his back more times then an 18th century hooker., heaven forbid that he actually fought a heavyweight with any skill that enjoyed taking chances.

. Haye was a total let down even with his talent. They should have brought him to the ring in a baby carriage.

If they are that vacant of any boxing ability what must the rest of the fold look like? Guys like Ron Lyle would dominate all these chronically unemployed turned boxers. Its like watching the trees in my back yard go at it.

Priceless.

**Max Power** · 12-27-2014 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

The last bum was Shufford? And it took 6 rounds to stop a bum? Well, you said it not us!

I stopped after the first round- I can’t think of any fighters I like who are tentative against the bums they fought.

The Shufford fight was nothing less than an outstanding performance from Klitschko as noted by Merchant, Steward and all the commentary. Only an agenda driven moron could not see that.

Yeah Wlad took 6 rounds to stop a 234lb bum, remember that. Tentative=smart.

If I remember rightly straight off top of my head, Muhammad Ali took longer to stop a 180lb bum who basically knocked him out the previous round and had to cheat to survive. He then LOST to a green 190lb bum which he later avenged only by decision too. Luckily.

So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!

Alex Leapai 30-6 (30-4 going in with Klitschko)
Malik Scott 37-2 (Undefeated going in with Chisora)
Dereck Chisora 20-5

All very high quality opponents.

Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer

Undefeated and never knocked down in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined.

Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?

Never said he was superb. I just said he was a quality opponent. Undefeated, very strong.

Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!

You can call them quality fighters by comparing them to the champs opponents opponents of previous eras. Guys like Fields, McBride and Walker are several notches above champs opponents opponents of the past. Just a tad lol

Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?

Tony IS a world class fighter, that is the only way to define him. He fought closely with Pulev who is also a world class fighter and loss to Takam, another superb boxer, yes that's right! Your catching on

And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?

Yesterdays HW's were todays CWs because they were either sub 200lbs at weigh in or around 210lbs or so which is what CWs today weigh at fight night. When Mormeck fought Klitschko he was 217lbs or approximately the same size as prime George Foreman except much more athletic!

He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.

Previous champs opponents (Ali, Holmes, Louis etc) got shots against the champ by LOSING fights or by beating a string of bums, sometimes even cruiser bums! Rendering your point here particularly ridiculous! It's never been more stringent to get a shot at the champ! Anyway, Mormeck got his chance because he was a decorated multiple world CW champ, a bit like the Spinks brothers getting there HW title shots don't you think

Except Leon was a green bum cruiser whereas Mormeck was a veteran quality HW at fight.

David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.

Fight hype. Everybody wanted to see Haye vs Klitschko and Wlad knew it. Haye was among Wladimir's best opponents.

Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%

Agree.

Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.

Eddie Chambers is a defensive master of escapology and among the fastest HW boxers of all time.

Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin.

Chagaev is an outstanding boxer who was HW champion of the world. Ruiz was also a former champion as was Valuev. And yeah it's a little hard for ANY boxer to fight scary vs Valuev who stands 7' tall and weighs 320lbs! Dummy! LOL

Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.

Rahman, Former champ 2 time, mightily strong, wins over Berbick, Sanders & Lewis, robbed against Tua, unusual stoppage from haematoma vs Holyfield, drew with Toney, solid record, yeah, quality opponent!

Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.

If you call bashing Briggs and Holyfield average and basically retiring rich after Wladimir because there was little else he had to prove, he had been HW champ, then your call. I would say, quality opponent!

Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.

Brewster was a great American champ, quality opponent, SuperFrazier.

Ray Austin wasn't shit.

Correct.

Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.

Brock was good skills, Wladimir simply shut him down with unbelievably good skills.

That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.

Chris Byrd, another defensive master and among the fastest boxers ever, another former champ with solid record, and PEter, feared puncher, solid record. Quality opponents.

In all of boxing history there is only a single resume that stands in competition and that is the resume of Lennox Lewis. Wladimir's resume outshines any other boxers resume so brightly it's like brown dwarf star companion lost in the glare of a blue supergiant (Wlad).

Fact!

**IamInuit** · 12-27-2014 05:50 AM

Empirical evidence = observation, experience and repeatability. That is how facts are established. The facts in this case speak for themselves. Bickering changes nothing.

**SlimTrae** · 12-27-2014 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Max Power