Al Haymon/PBC

[Kirkland Laing]

Have a look at the extensive PBC boxing schedule.

http://www.premierboxingchampions.com/boxing-schedule

What the hell is going on? If you want to set up a UFC-like organisation you've got to have a UFC-like schedule with lots of competitive fights on every bill. UFC have an event almost every weekend and Haymon has one half arsed show in a casino ballroom -- the Buffalo Thunder casino for fuck's sake -- and that's it.

I know the firm that's funding him are having problems recently. The hedge fund world is very opaque at the best of times but they've definitely lost a few quid recently and they may suddenly see the 1% of funds they've backed Haymon with, or what's left of it, as having better uses elsewhere. But from a boxing point of view it's not looking like a success now, is it?

[Kirkland Laing]

This was a popular subject.

Come on, half the world's top boxers are signed with Haymon and none of them have a fight scheduled. That's got to be worth a post.

[p4pking]

Yea that's bleak. As far as I know there isn't a single big fight in October, and aside from WArd-Kovalev(neither being Haymon fighters) basically nothing for the rest of the year, aside from Pac vs Vargas I guess. What is the firm that backs Haymon?

[Nameless]

Yea that's bleak. As far as I know there isn't a single big fight in October, and aside from WArd-Kovalev(neither being Haymon fighters) basically nothing for the rest of the year, aside from Pac vs Vargas I guess. What is the firm that backs Haymon?

The firm's Waddell and Reid. Beside, the idea behind PBC was a good one; to bring boxing back to the television, but with Haymon shady moves, I wonder if he's not slowly sinking his very own ship.

[p4pking]

If the business model has failed, I'm not sure what Haymon could have done differently, although I wouldn't know of course. He's put some horrid mismatches together, but there have also been a number of good cards since PBC started, and the demographic he's hoping to bring back likely won't know the difference. Just recently say, Thurman-Porter SHOULD have done very well, but did it? I read that Spences fight with Bundu got huge ratings, think it was due to being after a big NFL game or something like that.

Also, is it possible the lawsuits Golden Boy and Top rank brought against Haymon put a dent in things? I think at least one of them was settled out of court.

[Silkeyjoe]

Moneys all dried up. PBC be gone soon enough Id say. My opinion on it is awful business plan. You want a UFC stable you need UFC style fights ie competitive fights. Fuck all of them on PBC cards recently.

Hearn said that they were offered the Danny Garcia fight for, wait for it, Sam Eggington. They turned it down cz the money was pathetic. Awful stuff!

[Kirkland Laing]

Yea that's bleak. As far as I know there isn't a single big fight in October, and aside from WArd-Kovalev(neither being Haymon fighters) basically nothing for the rest of the year, aside from Pac vs Vargas I guess. What is the firm that backs Haymon?

https://www.waddell.com/


http://www.wsj.com/articles/outflows...nds-1433968268



There are claims that they've invested as much as $900 million in Haymon, anywhere between about 450 and 900 is a good guess. They're facing a lawsuit from investors pissed off about the amount of money they're risking and the investors claim $925 although it's hard to say exactly how much of that Haymon has access to. Supposedly he's lost hundreds of millions of dollars in just the last twelve months though. But worse than that the firm backing him isn't doing too well and they may have changes in management who are deciding to pull the plug.

Nealry three years into the whole thing and it's looking like a total disaster though.

[Kirkland Laing]

http://www.premierboxingchampions.com/boxing-schedule

New schedule coming soon.

The biggest problem is that Haymon went from being a manager/advisor to running the show. If you run a setup like PBC you need to be able to match whichever of your fighters you want whenever at the lowest cost to you possible, have a constant conveyor belt of competitive fights and build it into a weekly event like UFC.

Haymon couldn't do that. All his fighters are signed to managerial contracts, he's supposed to get the best deals possible for them and he's not allowed to be the name promoter by law. So his top guys are picking up massive money for rubbish fights and turning down anything that would be good on TV. He needs to be a promoter and not a manager but the only way he could build up his initial stable of fighters pre-PBC was to sign them to managerial contracts.

[Hulk]

http://www.premierboxingchampions.com/boxing-schedule

New schedule coming soon.

The biggest problem is that Haymon went from being a manager/advisor to running the show. If you run a setup like PBC you need to be able to match whichever of your fighters you want whenever at the lowest cost to you possible, have a constant conveyor belt of competitive fights and build it into a weekly event like UFC.

Haymon couldn't do that. All his fighters are signed to managerial contracts, he's supposed to get the best deals possible for them and he's not allowed to be the name promoter by law. So his top guys are picking up massive money for rubbish fights and turning down anything that would be good on TV. He needs to be a promoter and not a manager but the only way he could build up his initial stable of fighters pre-PBC was to sign them to managerial contracts.

Very nice breakdown.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

I like PBC, but these reports have me worried that it is not a feasible business plan and is on life support.

[powerpuncher]

The biggest problem is that most boxers are grossly overpaid. This means that it's hard to create something like PBC because it costs so much money to match up two good fighters against each other. This is why mismatches are created.

Two solutions. First, the fighters need to get less money per fight. This will allow great fights to happen and losses will become the norm and a fighter who loses will still have credibility. Then we can get rid of this idea that a fighter loses respect when they aren't undefeated anymore.

Second option is to have fighters fight 5-6 times a year and fought lesser competition so that they are at least exposed to the general public. For example, if someone like kovalev fought on network television a few times a year, there would be a lot of people who would watch him so that when a big fight comes up, the public would have an idea who he was and would be excited to see him fight. Obviously these lesser fights wouldnt be great pay but would be great exposure.

[Rantcatrat]

Here's the thing. The interest from the casual fans is linked to the interest from the hard core fans. Therefore, you need to make competitive fights, or the hard core fans won't buy it. That's what happened here. He had a huge number of the top welterweights and junior middleweights and yet rarely do they face each other. Pitting Garcia against Guerrero doesn't do it for people on this board, so no hype.

[powerpuncher]

He has tons of big names but not enough money to have them fight each other. He especially doesn't have the money to have a stacked card.

[palmerq]

I have quite enjoyed pbc, it is different from hbo and everything else, if it has failed and will fold soon then I will be sad. The big cards were pretty rare but I did quite like the mid week small cards, like the one being aired tonight, it's nothing great at all but it is fun to put on on a tuesday night. I hope pbc survives !

[Spicoli]

They muzzled Teddy Atlas, that is where it was lost . Don't think it's to the point of mourning the casket of Darth Haymon and some of the quantity over quality may have caught up. They burst out of the gate with almost five or six cards a month in spots and a half dozen networks. Bit of a traveling circus to the fastest bidder rather than grounding the promotion-name around network. Short term thinking and looked predictable the way he was signing fighters from every career point in order the recycle everything in house. Collazo, Angulo or Ortiz are names only and that's about it. Your stars can only have a showcase so many times before it is really just keeping them warm. Guerrero v Garcia I'll get into as a building block to big things knowing he has the talent but Garcia vs Molina Jr after, come on. Look we as fans can also frankly be fickle and streamlined into just skimming off the top. A 'good' name doesn't mean you'll get a good fight or big event and that is just as true in mma.. They've had some top notch fights in series and good run of young talent coming up in competitive fights and I still put value in boxing returning to the 'regular' networks.

[p4pking]

Teddy Atlas will clean all of this shit up.