Why was BLM a "bad" thing?

[TitoFan]

BLM (Black Lives Matter), for the uninitiated, was a movement created to protest the number of blacks being killed at the hands of white police officers in the U.S. There. That was a factual, objective statement. Everyone agree?


So what is wrong with it? Is it offensive because it doesn't include whites? Ok then I'll counteract by saying that it's not BLMBWLD (Black Lives Matter but White Lives Don't). You see..... THAT would've been wrong and objectionable. BLM is not seeking to exclude other lives from mattering. It's only asserting that black lives matter also. Thinking of which, maybe a better name would've been BLMA. I don't know, I don't spend a lot of time on that shit. Also, I realize this movement is already a couple of years old and thus my thread is a little outdated. But maybe not. Black protests still occur.... we still have kneeling NFL players protesting this same issue, etc.

On the root cause itself, and I'll make this clear. Yes... some of the blacks shot by white officers in the last few years have pretty much asked to be shot. Suspicious behavior, compounded by failure to follow direct police orders.... yeah.... those are all a recipe for disaster. But those haven't been the only cases. There have been other cases as well. Well-documented, and even videotaped cases where blacks have been shot with no solid reason whatsoever. Victims of inept, angry, apparently very racist white cops. If anyone cares to dispute that, I guess I'll go and dredge up the cases themselves. I'd rather not have to do that. I think we've all seen the video of the unarmed black guy who got shot 8 times in the back while jogging away from a white cop.

Yes, in some of those cases, justice has been served. But why do they keep occurring? That, I think, is at the core of these protests. Why are there very few token efforts being made to get to the bottom, or root cause, of this increasing problem? Is there something wrong with protesting this in a passive way? I always said privately that if I had been born black in the States and been around in the 50's and 60's, that I'd probably be dead by now. I meant it. I have zero tolerance for racism, because as I've said thousands of times before, I was raised in a non-racist environment in a society which is largely non-racist. Racist people like Denilson would and HAS disputed that, but then Denilson is very ignorant about a lot of things, so his opinion means squat to me.

So since I like to sum things up with lists, I'll do the same here with some of my thoughts:


1. Racism DOES exist. It's a form of ignorance. Those who claim otherwise are probably racist themselves.

2. There ARE blacks who take advantage of racism and its history and play it up to the hilt. All this does is hurt the cause of good black people, and add fuel to the fire of people who don't like their protests.

3. There IS such a thing as black backlash, which unfortunately wraps up non-racist whites in the same package as racist whites, and end up all getting lumped together in the same ball of shit.

4. Laws will never eliminate racism, as racism exists in people's minds. If I'm hiring between two candidates and I choose the white guy over the black guy because I'm a racist..... there's nothing to stop me.

5. In # 4 above, if the white guy is a better candidate than the black guy.... and I hire him for that reason, I don't want black in my face saying I hired the white guy 'cause I'm racist.

6. Many blacks will agree I made the right choice, if they know ME, and they trust my judgment.



I know some will not agree with me, but I believe in SOME hate crime legislation.

Joe shoots Jack, not killing him but severely wounding him. Joe shot Jack because he felt Jack had insulted him in front of his girlfriend.

Joe gets convicted of attempted murder, and sentenced to 5 years in prison.

Jeff shoots Mike, not killing him but severely wounding him. Jeff shot Mike because Mike is black, and Jeff is a white supremacist who hates blacks. Jeff and Mike didn't know each other. BTW, Jeff admits to the motive.

Jeff gets convicted of attempted murder.

So far so good, right?

Ok, here's where I differ. Jeff should get more than 5 years. The crime was the same, but the motive was completely different. Jeff's crime was a hate crime.



So there you have it. In one spiel, I've summarized my views on race once again.

[Master]

BLM is not a bad thing. I think some of their points went overboard I think it was about pollution but even then you could understand their point.

[El Kabong]

BLM focuses on Black Lives but only a certain select few Black Lives it seems. When it comes to ANY (just, unjust, or whatever) police shooting of a Black person they are 100% all over it....and that's fine, it's good to hold the police accountable, it's good to hold politicians accountable, but at the same time some criminals happen to be black and some criminals who happen to be black EARN getting shot just like some white criminals EARN getting shot. But BLM doesn't want to look at why or how something happened, they just look at the result and the shit hits the fan.

Michael Brown and the "Hands up don't shoot" narrative that is a LIE forensic evidence and video recording earlier that day shows NOT a "gentle giant" but a big violent man.

Eric Garner was not killed by police he had a heart attack struggling not to get arrested....he was arrested for selling loose cigarettes because the MAYOR OF NEW YORK WANTED TO CRACK DOWN ON THAT....his life matters but that's the cops trying to enforce a shitty law created by shitty politicians and that sucks.

Trayvon Martin physically attacked George Zimmerman until he feared for his life and shot. It doesn't make Trayvon an evil person, it doesn't make Zimmerman a good person, it's a situation where mistakes were made on both sides. If I'm that young and I feel as though I'm being followed I either run or hide or call the cops/tell an authority figure...I don't just attack someone who is following me that's ridiculous. And the MEDIA pushed a certain narrative which exacerbated the situation (and they ban Alex Jones )

Meanwhile in Chicago...
Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 292
Shot & Wounded: 1526
Total Shot: 1818
Total Homicides: 347

Where is BLM on THAT? They are sooooo wrapped up in police shootings they could give 2 shits about gang shootings. How is it different?



BLM was started by Socialist Lesbians which doesn't discredit their cause or movement but it gives an insight as to how they view the world, they view things through that lens and to other people that view is distorted.


And kneeling for the National Anthem...yeah that doesn't help endear this cause to anyone else, it alienates and divides others who otherwise might attempt to help find a solution to this violence.

[Master]

The outcome of Black people being shot and killed does matter and that is their main point. Few are held accountable to it. That does matter.

[TitoFan]

BLM focuses on Black Lives but only a certain select few Black Lives it seems. When it comes to ANY (just, unjust, or whatever) police shooting of a Black person they are 100% all over it....and that's fine, it's good to hold the police accountable, it's good to hold politicians accountable, but at the same time some criminals happen to be black and some criminals who happen to be black EARN getting shot just like some white criminals EARN getting shot. But BLM doesn't want to look at why or how something happened, they just look at the result and the shit hits the fan.

Lyle, show me one bit of evidence where all BLM members don't "want to look at why or how something happened". It's too easy to say that. In the middle of all the shootings, if a justified one occurs, hell..... unfortunately it gets swept up in the outrage. It's not right.... but it's understandable. There's a PATTERN going on here, Lyle.

Michael Brown and the "Hands up don't shoot" narrative that is a LIE forensic evidence and video recording earlier that day shows NOT a "gentle giant" but a big violent man.

Eric Garner was not killed by police he had a heart attack struggling not to get arrested....he was arrested for selling loose cigarettes because the MAYOR OF NEW YORK WANTED TO CRACK DOWN ON THAT....his life matters but that's the cops trying to enforce a shitty law created by shitty politicians and that sucks.

Trayvon Martin physically attacked George Zimmerman until he feared for his life and shot. It doesn't make Trayvon an evil person, it doesn't make Zimmerman a good person, it's a situation where mistakes were made on both sides. If I'm that young and I feel as though I'm being followed I either run or hide or call the cops/tell an authority figure...I don't just attack someone who is following me that's ridiculous. And the MEDIA pushed a certain narrative which exacerbated the situation (and they ban Alex Jones )

For every Micheal Brown there is a Stephon Clark, Lyle.

For every Eric Garner there is a Walter Scott, Lyle.

We can go back and forth all day, but I already stated in my opening post that: "Yes... some of the blacks shot by white officers in the last few years have pretty much asked to be shot. Suspicious behavior, compounded by failure to follow direct police orders.... yeah.... those are all a recipe for disaster."

So poof..... there goes that counter-argument right there. I KNOW there are justified shootings. My guess is many BLM'ers do also. So what is a movement supposed to do..... skip and hop over individual cases? There's a PATTERN. That's what we should be concerned about.

Meanwhile in Chicago...
Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 292
Shot & Wounded: 1526
Total Shot: 1818
Total Homicides: 347

Where is BLM on THAT? They are sooooo wrapped up in police shootings they could give 2 shits about gang shootings. How is it different?

No disrespect, Lyle but..... what's your point? BLM is protesting unwarranted shootings of young black men at the hands of white police officers. The crime statistics in Chicago are another matter altogether. Apples and oranges. Why should the crime statistics in Chicago prevent BLM from protesting what they think is wrong? Chicago's issues are massive. They need well thought out solutions. They actually need forceful solutions. But again..... what's the point here? Do the crime statistics in Chicago have any bearing whatsoever on the number of white police officers who, either due to improper training, racial biases, or any number of reasons exercise total abuse of power when it comes to young black males? No... I don't think so.

BLM was started by Socialist Lesbians which doesn't discredit their cause or movement but it gives an insight as to how they view the world, they view things through that lens and to other people that view is distorted.


And kneeling for the National Anthem...yeah that doesn't help endear this cause to anyone else, it alienates and divides others who otherwise might attempt to help find a solution to this violence.

You may be right about who started BLM who knows. But I CAN tell you that many decent black people have joined BLM because they're seeing the same thing I'm seeing..... a disproportionate amount of shootings of unarmed black men by white cops. Nothing more...... nothing less. Some are warranted? Sure. There's black gangland rampant shootings in Chicago? Damn right. Some BLM'ers are wagon-jumping idiots? Certainly. But none of this invalidates my point.

[Freedom]

[El Kabong]

Lyle, show me one bit of evidence where all BLM members don't "want to look at why or how something happened". It's too easy to say that. In the middle of all the shootings, if a justified one occurs, hell..... unfortunately it gets swept up in the outrage. It's not right.... but it's understandable. There's a PATTERN going on here, Lyle.

Don't you start the ALL game with me too, I get enough of that from everyone else. No, there IS a pattern it's A) Police shooting of black person B ) Demand video evidence C) Regardless of video evidence emotions have been amped up everyone is sharing their unrelated stories of what happened to them as individuals and then D) Riots........at the end of the day what matters is that there was a shooting and a black person is dead...nothing else matters. BLM does that, the MSM does that, it's the very same with mass shootings there's a pattern and instead of "Oh the authorities had information all along and could have stopped it" the focus is "OMG ban guns/make new laws"....those things miss the point entirely.

I KNOW there are justified shootings. My guess is many BLM'ers do also. So what is a movement supposed to do..... skip and hop over individual cases? There's a PATTERN. That's what we should be concerned about.

Yes, YOU know there are justified shootings. BLM'ers may or may not know that, whether or not the shooting was justified isn't their point their point is a black person has died at the hands of the police FULLSTOP. That is their point....not "Well he WAS reaching for a gun" or "He DID violently resist arrest". I don't get myself emotionally worked up over police shootings or mass shootings, I ask questions, I wait for evidence, I piece things together and typically there are easy answers available.

What pattern are you talking about? Just police shooting black people? If that's the case then I would ask that you take a look at the stats.

No disrespect, Lyle but..... what's your point? BLM is protesting unwarranted shootings of young black men at the hands of white police officers. The crime statistics in Chicago are another matter altogether. Apples and oranges. Why should the crime statistics in Chicago prevent BLM from protesting what they think is wrong? Chicago's issues are massive. They need well thought out solutions. They actually need forceful solutions. But again..... what's the point here? Do the crime statistics in Chicago have any bearing whatsoever on the number of white police officers who, either due to improper training, racial biases, or any number of reasons exercise total abuse of power when it comes to young black males? No... I don't think so.

Well first off not all of the BLM protested shootings were carried out by white cops, Philando Castile was shot by Officer Jeronimo Yanez...you know the Yanez family, they came over on the Mayflower. BLM isn't protesting "unwarranted shootings" they are protesting "police shootings of blacks"...hell one of the broads who started BLM is for Prison ABOLITION ...yes Abolishing PRISONS. That is one of the BLM founders who is for that. Not "Get private companies out of the prison game" which I could agree with, but it's "Get rid of prisons". Black Lives are Black Lives, more Black Lives are taken in gang violence than by police....perhaps solving THAT would also solve the police shooting blacks.

Again I implore you to look at the stats. Who is more likely to shoot who? Is there a big disparity in race of who is shot by the police? Per Capita?

My solution for all of this is: more 2 parent households, clean up the schools, graduate high school at the very least, get a job, don't get pregnant or get somebody pregnant until you're married. That would solve a great deal of issues. I'd also like for the police to be less like the local military and more like Sheriff Andy Taylor from the Andy Griffith show....know your community, love your community, protect your community, don't have disdain for where you live or where your patrol is.

You may be right about who started BLM who knows. But I CAN tell you that many decent black people have joined BLM because they're seeing the same thing I'm seeing..... a disproportionate amount of shootings of unarmed black men by white cops. Nothing more...... nothing less. Some are warranted? Sure. There's black gangland rampant shootings in Chicago? Damn right. Some BLM'ers are wagon-jumping idiots? Certainly. But none of this invalidates my point.

I don't blindly hate BLM, I studied up on them. There's ways to make things better and there's ways to make things worse. Cops shooting citizens (of ANY color) unlawfully doesn't help. Rioting when a criminal is shot doesn't help.

I know there's a big media push on this issue, I find it kind of ridiculous...this is not Mississippi Burning, there's no water hoses and attack dogs, there's a giant drug and gang issues in a lot of these cities (white, black, brown, red, etc) and the police are more often being goaded by protesters when it's a tough job already...I don't like the police but they are not going out there every single day and playing The Most Dangerous Game and "hunting" black men...not happening.

Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States in 2017-2018, as of June, by race
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

....looks like a shit ton of white people were killed by the police to me...but hey YOU try making "White Lives Matter" a thing, I ain't touching that shit.

[El Kabong]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...ontre_Hamilton



Sometimes shit happens...it's not ALWAYS an excuse, but it's life. Mental health is also an issue...a guy I went to high school with was shot and killed by the police, I knew the guy fairly well was a friendly acquaintance of his.....but he assaulted a police officer (as in he bodyslammed her) and that officer (a woman) feared for her life and shot him after a taser didn't work....shit happens. I for one am glad that incident occurred well before the BLM movement as my community could have been torn to shit because of it and I don't want to see that. As much as I hate a person having lost their life, you just can't do that shit and expect that to be accepted in society....we're not cavemen we have rules and laws and they need to be followed for society to stay somewhat manageable. If we ARE returning to the ways of the caveman then "Safe spaces" "Body shaming" and all that other pussy PC bullshit is long gone.

[TitoFan]

I think we come at this issue from different angles, even though we both know there are elements to what each other says that is completely right.

But you prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of those who prefer to start a riot no matter why, how, where, or under what circumstances the shooting occurred.

I prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of the decent black person who is understandably shaken by the pattern of unarmed blacks being shot by white cops, and would like to make a difference.

Neither is totally right.... neither is totally wrong. You HAVE to know there are decent black people with an honest beef who have chosen BLM as their vehicle.

Just like I know there are blacks who just like to jump the bandwagon. Let's just agree on this and avoid the endless circle we can get on.



You mentioned Michael Brown and Eric Garner..... I mentioned Stephon Clark and Walter Scott. Ok so Brown and Garner had it coming to them. Let's go on that assumption. What about the other two? What repercussions have there been based on those incidences? What far-ranging measures have been taken to avoid this sort of murder from happening in front of our very eyes? That's the pattern I'm talking about. And these are the video taped incidents. What about the many incidents that don't get caught on camera? There are issues that need to be addressed... let's not kid ourselves.

Hey, I like your suggestions:

"My solution for all of this is: more 2 parent households, clean up the schools, graduate high school at the very least, get a job, don't get pregnant or get somebody pregnant until you're married. That would solve a great deal of issues. I'd also like for the police to be less like the local military and more like Sheriff Andy Taylor from the Andy Griffith show....know your community, love your community, protect your community, don't have disdain for where you live or where your patrol is."


Those are great long term solutions. What about some immediate ones? Mandatory, enforced use of cop-cams 100% percent of the time.... no excuses. Cop-cam not working? Go home and not get paid. Mandatory is mandatory. That's the best way to force accountability on cops. They want to take out their racist tendencies on innocent people? Let them do it on their own time, in the neighborhood bar or a back alley. Not with their uniform on.


Anyway, point is we're looking at the same situation and addressing it from two different points of view. IMO, whatever brings attention to the woeful job some of these police officers are doing, is fine. I don't condone rioting..... I don't believe in lumping every black-white incident together..... I don't believe in jumping to conclusions. But I'm against this knee-jerk reaction backlash against any protest a black might have the gumption to utter because he/she feels threatened by the attitude of aggressive white cops. It's not fair. Similar shit happens in Arizona with the ethnic profiling, especially when led by a racist asshole like Joe Arpaio. Different pile of shit..... same smell.