The Lineal Heavyweight Champ

[Beanz]

How important and relevant is the right to be called lineal Heavyweight Champion of the World in 2018?

[TitoFan]

Good informative video showing the history of the heavyweight championship in 20 minutes. I shuddered seeing guys like Shannon Briggs in there, but whatever. Having said that, it's a good 20 minutes, only to conclude by placing Tyson Fury at the end of the list. To answer the question posed, I think the importance and relevance of being called the lineal HW champion has been watered down over time, and has finally plunged into total non-relevance. Fury made sure of that by beating Wlad outside the ring first, then making it official when Wlad basically refused to go on offense. Then, Fury promptly imploded, having made zero defenses of his strangely won title. Wlad vs AJ probably rescued HW championship fighting from the abyss it had fallen into, lineal claims be damned. But the real reason lineal claims became irrelevant long ago was, as the narrator correctly put it, was the rise and corruption of the different alphabet titles. Once that occurred, lineal claims became practically meaningless.

[Alpha]

In this day and age, I think it's better to rate the best fighter in a division, rather than the champion. The reason is, it has become very messy and there are no strict rules around crowning a lineal champion. Who determinds the #1 and #2 for example? Back in the day, the former champion basically did.

As for Fury, his claim is even muddied. Was Wlad the lineal champ? I pointed this out in another thread. Vitali was still unretired at the time of Wlad/Povetkin, so was that match really between the #1 and #2?

Fury as we know also accepted a 2 year back dated suspension, meaning that the Wlad fight should technically be ruled a no contest.

Just to add a bit more fun, some believe Fury should still be considered lineal, despite his retirement and suspension. The Ring actually recognised Vitali/Saunders (their #1 and #2 at the time) as for their championship. If they refuse to recognise Fury's retirement (for mental health and drug related issues) because he is back and fighting, then the same could be argued for Vitali.

Like I say, lineal championships have become very messy.

[TitoFan]

It's mental vomit. I'd rather argue who's p4p than who's lineal at this point.

[Alpha]

It's mental vomit. I'd rather argue who's p4p than who's lineal at this point.

Like I said, I prefer to rate the best fighter in a division these days.

P4P is too subjective for me.

[powerpuncher]

In this day and age, I think it's better to rate the best fighter in a division, rather than the champion. The reason is, it has become very messy and there are no strict rules around crowning a lineal champion. Who determinds the #1 and #2 for example? Back in the day, the former champion basically did.

As for Fury, his claim is even muddied. Was Wlad the lineal champ? I pointed this out in another thread. Vitali was still unretired at the time of Wlad/Povetkin, so was that match really between the #1 and #2?

Fury as we know also accepted a 2 year back dated suspension, meaning that the Wlad fight should technically be ruled a no contest.

Just to add a bit more fun, some believe Fury should still be considered lineal, despite his retirement and suspension. The Ring actually recognised Vitali/Saunders (their #1 and #2 at the time) as for their championship. If they refuse to recognise Fury's retirement (for mental health and drug related issues) because he is back and fighting, then the same could be argued for Vitali.

Like I say, lineal championships have become very messy.

Things have changed a lot. With multiple titles it gets so messy. It becomes easier to become lineal champ without fighting the best. For example, Canelo got the real middleweight title even though GGG was considered the best middleweight. So the lineal title wasn’t looked at as highly as other titles.

Also, a lineal champ can lose a title to a lesser fighter and generally as fans we consider the next in line as champ rather than the guy who beat the lineal champ. It’s just weird. That’s the problem with multiple titles

[Alpha]

In this day and age, I think it's better to rate the best fighter in a division, rather than the champion. The reason is, it has become very messy and there are no strict rules around crowning a lineal champion. Who determinds the #1 and #2 for example? Back in the day, the former champion basically did.

As for Fury, his claim is even muddied. Was Wlad the lineal champ? I pointed this out in another thread. Vitali was still unretired at the time of Wlad/Povetkin, so was that match really between the #1 and #2?

Fury as we know also accepted a 2 year back dated suspension, meaning that the Wlad fight should technically be ruled a no contest.

Just to add a bit more fun, some believe Fury should still be considered lineal, despite his retirement and suspension. The Ring actually recognised Vitali/Saunders (their #1 and #2 at the time) as for their championship. If they refuse to recognise Fury's retirement (for mental health and drug related issues) because he is back and fighting, then the same could be argued for Vitali.

Like I say, lineal championships have become very messy.

Things have changed a lot. With multiple titles it gets so messy. It becomes easier to become lineal champ without fighting the best. For example, Canelo got the real middleweight title even though GGG was considered the best middleweight. So the lineal title wasn’t looked at as highly as other titles.

Also, a lineal champ can lose a title to a lesser fighter and generally as fans we consider the next in line as champ rather than the guy who beat the lineal champ. It’s just weird. That’s the problem with multiple titles

Exactly, and Canelo has more claim to a lineal title than Fury.

The problem is there are no set guidelines and no 1 recognised authority determining who is #1 and #2, if retirements/ suspensions are cause for vacating.

Now you have to unify 4 titles, previously it was 3. The number of titles required could increase in the future.

[TitoFan]

With multiple belts, it's pointless to even talk "lineal". Maybe when referring to the good ol' days.

[TitoFan]

In this day and age, I think it's better to rate the best fighter in a division, rather than the champion. The reason is, it has become very messy and there are no strict rules around crowning a lineal champion. Who determinds the #1 and #2 for example? Back in the day, the former champion basically did.

As for Fury, his claim is even muddied. Was Wlad the lineal champ? I pointed this out in another thread. Vitali was still unretired at the time of Wlad/Povetkin, so was that match really between the #1 and #2?

Fury as we know also accepted a 2 year back dated suspension, meaning that the Wlad fight should technically be ruled a no contest.

Just to add a bit more fun, some believe Fury should still be considered lineal, despite his retirement and suspension. The Ring actually recognised Vitali/Saunders (their #1 and #2 at the time) as for their championship. If they refuse to recognise Fury's retirement (for mental health and drug related issues) because he is back and fighting, then the same could be argued for Vitali.

Like I say, lineal championships have become very messy.

Things have changed a lot. With multiple titles it gets so messy. It becomes easier to become lineal champ without fighting the best. For example, Canelo got the real middleweight title even though GGG was considered the best middleweight. So the lineal title wasn’t looked at as highly as other titles.

Also, a lineal champ can lose a title to a lesser fighter and generally as fans we consider the next in line as champ rather than the guy who beat the lineal champ. It’s just weird. That’s the problem with multiple titles

Exactly, and Canelo has more claim to a lineal title than Fury.

The problem is there are no set guidelines and no 1 recognised authority determining who is #1 and #2, if retirements/ suspensions are cause for vacating.

Now you have to unify 4 titles, previously it was 3. The number of titles required could increase in the future.

Well..... Canelo IS in line to receive the "Adolfo Lopez Mateos WBC World Title Belt" if he lasts the 12 rounds against GGG on Sept 15th.

I hear that one is prettier and gaudier than the regular ol' belts.